stratego
Trying to be good.
Would you say that the US was ran as a democracy back in 1776? If not when would you say it became a democracy?
Would you consider the US a democracy in 1776?
- Thread starter stratego
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amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
For 1776 it was.
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
The US is the only nation in the world, where a democratic constitution was there, before the nation actually was there. It's unique, and I think it is something Americans should be proud of.
We can argue for hours and hours that there wasn't full suffrage, but for 1776 standards, it was the very definition for democracy.
We can argue for hours and hours that there wasn't full suffrage, but for 1776 standards, it was the very definition for democracy.
Well, they were the 'United Collonies of America' with treaties and congress.
I have found it impossible to draw direct comparissons between 1776 US and European nations.
G.W. wanted voting rights for wealthy white men only - this was fairly ordinary for the time.
How did the British elect their ministers? During the Revolutionary War, British government was led by a Prime Minister, and constituencies held by-elections, but I cannot find the details behind this.
I have found it impossible to draw direct comparissons between 1776 US and European nations.
G.W. wanted voting rights for wealthy white men only - this was fairly ordinary for the time.
How did the British elect their ministers? During the Revolutionary War, British government was led by a Prime Minister, and constituencies held by-elections, but I cannot find the details behind this.
Sims2789
Fool me once...
In 1776, we didn't have a government. However, in 1789, we formed our republic (before we were a confederation). It was more democratic than absolutist states like Austria and Russia, but even for the time, it wasn't a democracy. Only the upper class (nobles all but in name) could vote in most states, and, of course, only [rich] white men could vote. The Federalist party was virtually the only political party. It was similair to the situation in England, but minus the King and the Whigs.
Sims2789
Fool me once...
stratego said:
We never became a democracy. The corporations took over after the Civil Rights Act (1964). However, we were technically a democracy in 1924, when all Native Americans became citizens. But the oligarchists still controlled the shadow democracy, and blacks and illiterate whites throughout the South were prevented from voting. However, we are much more democratic than, say, China or the Somalian warlordoms, but that isn't saying much.
Ebitdadada
Master Baiter
No we wern't a democracy. We were the pretty democratic for the time ( despite what Stormblind will tell you (he apparently doensn't like the US I get the feeling as I have seen about 1 pro US statement per 100 anti US statement posted by him, Do get the feeling thougth that the UK is the most wonderfull place on the planet (from Stormblind), which I find somewhat odd since they spawned the obviously evil USA) but no, we wern't ruled by the people or for the people, we were ruled by and for the people who owned land. Became a Democracy about 1968 or so which, considering how we started (pretty democratic compared to the rest of the world) is pretty sad. If only Alexander Hamilton would have been elected president we may have had a better run at things (he didn't like slavery, did like common currency), anyway, I'm wasted. Like i said though, Stormbilnd, a bit rediculasly to the point of obserdity, anti-everything American, pro everything British. I'd like to point out though that I have some weird pro everything British feeling myself, maybee its a disease.
Democratic compared to who?Ebitdadada said:
The United Collonies gave voting rights to a greater cross-section of citizens than the early United States.
I haven't made a single pro-British statement in this thread. I pointed out that I had no idea how the British by-elections worked at the time*. You must be diluded if you think it's alright to make comparissons with something you don't know the details of.
If you think I am pro-British on every issue, you must have read-over my posts about PM Bliar. If you think I am anti-American on every issue, you must have read over my posts not concerning the Bush administration
The first Prime Minister was Walpole, in 1721. There were two main parties in the House of Commons at the time of American rebellion, the Whigs and Tories, with Prime Minister Lord North leading government. North was largely perceived as an idiot. Successor Prime Minister Rockingham was far more amiable but short lived.
Ebitdadada
Master Baiter
stormbind said:Democratic compared to who?
The United Collonies gave voting rights to a greater cross-section of citizens than the early United States.
I haven't made a single pro-British statement in this thread. I pointed out that I had no idea how the British by-elections worked at the time. You must be diluded if you think it's alright to make comparissons with something you don't know the details of.
If you think I am pro-British on every issue, you must have read-over my posts about PM Bliar. If you think I am anti-American on every issue, you must have read over my posts not concerning the Bush administration
If I were you I wouldn't give much creadence to anythin I say right now as I am a bit wasted. That said, it does seem to me you are a bit biased in favor of Britain and against the US and/or France, (based on my readings of your posts) which personaly I find a bit odd since I find the US and UK to be about as close as you can get (I can't find a country closer to the US than the UK, even Canada). If it is just Bush you are against then I guess I can forgive / agree with you. I'm not sure what we were thinking electing that crazy guy. Remember America, Vote Kerry on Novermber 2nd. Stop the madness.
Onces again, I appologize if I get the wrong immpression Stormblind, it just seems everythign you post is either pro Britain or anti France or America. I may get the wrong immpresion though since I don't really bother to read everthing on this forum, don't have the time. anyway have a good day (think its day in Britain right now).
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
stratego said:
1781 Republic (Confederation)
1789 Federal Republic
We were never a Democracy, except maybe on local levels, where people would vote on the local budget. We are represented elsewhere.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
I agree with you Zarn. The US is not a democracy. The President isn't even elected by Americans.Zarn said:
The US has a money-owners aristocratic system.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
Marla_Singer said:
Bah! We are electing people to elect him for us. It just shows how Republican and Federalistic we are. Nothing else.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Yeah I agree. It shows how Americans despise Democracy.Zarn said:
Actually, the only people I've met in the world who were describing Democracy as mere "mob rule" were American. If you want power in America, you need to have money. The US is lead by a cast of millionaires.
Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
Marla_Singer said:
Look at our military's definition of it. You are right we despise it, but we do love liberty and justice. Ask any American whether Republican or Democrat, those our very precious. The point is that you don't have to be a Democracy to be free and to love freedom.
It was a military dictatorship in 1776luiz said:
I must insist on knowing the early US voting framework, and British voting framework of that time, and other national voting frameworks, before I can make a sound judement.
luiz, you seem to know the answers to the above. Please explain them to me
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Being Free without having power means being glad to be a slave.Zarn said:
Democracy = Power to the People.
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