"Would you . . . ?" Part Two: Scum and Stammerer. (Presidential Debate Thread)

[Gori the Grey]

At this moment, you don't want progressive. You just want "won't tear democracy itself down."

 

[Gori the Grey]

I'm not talking about Israel-Hamas-Gaza there, I'm talking about the fact that he performed so...oldly in the debate that you, of all people, are now talking seriously about replacing him on the ticket. I think any other of the 18 would not have this problem.

Oh none of them would. But we had to beat Trump in '20, and D primary voters settled on an individual who could do that.

He came with the baggage of being old, for a 2024 run in particular. As it turns out.

there's still the question of whether the party has the 'muscle memory' to run a contested convention.

Adrenaline can do amazing things!

 

[Gorbles]

At this moment, you don't want progressive. You just want "won't tear democracy itself down."

Those two aren't incompatible.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Not in the abstract, but in these particular immediate circumstances you don't also want to give voters that question, that grounds for reservation.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Come on Gavin Newsome or Jamie Raskin. It is time to step up.

 

[Farm Boy]

You don't want to strip down the top of the ticket right now I don't think. But you do desperately need to replace the VP. It's actually relevant to what people care about this time.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Raskin's another excellent choice.

 

[Voidwalkin]

You could ride anti-geriatric sentiment (the strongest sentiment right now) to a victory.

This isn't the strongest sentiment right now. It's just the widest breach in the wall, so it's where you see the muscle coming in from. There is substantial disgust with capitalism that manifests differently between the two sides, I'd call it anti-status quo. This is largely secondary, though. The two sides are motivated by a gap in morality.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You're probably right about that, @Voidwalkin, as a matter of broad sociological analysis. I'm speaking about the very-short-term dynamics of a presidential election four months away. There, age has been the key issue on people's minds.

That and inflation. But remember, a new ticket will be able to promise whatever regarding inflation and there's no track record to hang them on.

 

[Voidwalkin]

Dynamics would shift immediately after. Animosity will remain. A new angle would be found against Harris.

Likely not, actually. The right would just treat all of her positions with total contempt, as they did Hilary, and for likely the same reasons. Everything she'd say would be wrong and they'd treat her as wholly illegitimate.

Left wouldn't love the whole federal prosecutor thing. It'd just turn into an approximately equivalent situation, vote for Harris(ugh) because she's not the apocalypse.

 

[Gori the Grey]

It's not the right you need to worry about. Yes, they'll invent an objection against anyone--and hammer it mercilessly. They have that whole machine in place.

The center will heave a huge sigh of relief that they can vote against Trump again without their worry about Biden's senility.

Yes, the motivation would be exactly as your last sentence puts it.

Anti-Trump voters are enough to carry an election.

 

[Voidwalkin]

If she turns out 10k voters in Michiga voting against her specifically who would stay home otherwise, and cannot get 10k for her specifically in the booth, that could be the difference. The rights willingness to accept a candidates right to rule does matter in the election.

Is that morally right? Well no, but moral idealism getting in the way of practicality is downright insane when Donald Trump waits to take the reins.

If you are gonna replace Biden, Newsom is the clear answer. He's handsome, young, 6'3, with a deep gravelly voice. You take one look at him and hear him speak and you know dude is a political threat. Natural leader bellowing out insults at Trump during a debate will create a more clear consensus.

 

[JollyRoger]

Biographers of presidents Mondale, Dole, Kerry, and Romney say that an incumbent losing a debate means he should drop out.

 

[Gorbles]

Is that morally right? Well no, but moral idealism getting in the way of practicality is downright insane when Donald Trump waits to take the reins.

Man, its gonna be the third time left-leaning folks gave been beaten with this particular stick and they're still going to get the blame regardless. My sympathies from over the pond.

 

[Gori the Grey]

If you are gonna replace Biden, Newsom is the clear answer. He's handsome, young, 6'3, with a deep gravelly voice. You take one look at him and hear him speak and you know dude is a political threat.

I like Newsom far better. I settled on Harris because, as you saw when I sketched my scenario, there's a plausible pretext for just appointing her out of the blue. For any other candidate, all the Ds who don't favor that one will say "well, why didn't you pick my favorite?" Harris answers that question. She's also a more natural magnet for anti-Dobbs sentiment. She'll draw more Michiganders than she drives off, on that count alone.

All Always Vote Ds (naturally)
All Anti-Trumpers (which gave Biden the edge in 2020)
Many Anti-Dobbsers

Locks down African-American women, a key D constituency and why Biden picked her in the first place.

 

[r16]

oh , the American Democracy is in danger ? Whatever you have given , you will get . Oh , the absolutely right and correct candidate can't speak ? You shouldn't have played with his prompters . Now that he is known to be absolutely good in giving speeches , right ? Not really following but the echo chamber ı follow for news gave top credits to (fascist) Melloni for being the only one who cared in D-Day celebrations so that Bidon would not fall or something . THIS , dear pundits in CFC , is your beloved much AI Revolution , the Singularity thing taking over and people must be weaned out of silly conceptions that their best and (most rarely) most honest should lead them . So that AI owning bosses will have no trouble from godless Commies and whatnot . BSS aka Trump ? He will be the force of nature he thinks he is . A great pity for the world that it is NOT February 2025 ALREADY .

translation : When you WANT your somewhat handie cappe d candidate do good in a debate when the opponent can not interfere , you do proper prompting .

 

[Lexicus]

Biographers of presidents Mondale, Dole, Kerry, and Romney say that an incumbent losing a debate means he should drop out.

Reagan, Clinton, Bush, and Obama all had charisma & the ability to bounce back, what's Biden got?

The more I think about this the more I think Biden leaving the ticket and using hte convention to pick a new candidate is the move simply because it's less boring than keeping Joe in there. The Democrats could make choosing a candidate in their convention a really entertaining event.

 

[Gori the Grey]

They should do it before the convention. Emergency session. They should do it now. Several reasons, but one is states have deadlines for setting the ballots. Biden was running into difficulties with Ohio on this point, even with the existing date of the convention. Don't wait.

 

[Lexicus]

Bump the convention up, idc, whatever it takes man

 

[soundjata]

Democracy is dead.