"Would you . . . ?" Part Two: Scum and Stammerer. (Presidential Debate Thread)

[Gorbles]

Sure Trump can potentially be a threat to the Republic in his at times irresponsibility.... but at least he is not actively trying to dismantle it and increase centralized state power

The fact that anyone believes this after the SCOTUS ruling and Trump's immediate move to capitalise on said ruling just demonstrates how the idea of a "moderator-free" discussion is completely out of sync with how far-right talking points work.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Trump and his associates are in fact

actively trying to dismantle the Republic and increase centralized state power at the expense of individual rights,

Rambo.

They want state power so centralized that L'Etat, c'est Trump (and his lickspittles).

Authoritarianism is the ultimate centralization of state power, its non plus ultra. (Putting Trump in that center probably also counts as some kind of reductio ad absurdum.)

(If I can be forgiven some French and Latin formulations of our horrifyingly American situation.)

 

[Senethro]

All I can say is SA politics has immunized me against taking anything any politician says at face value. Ignore what they say, look at what they do and what the long term effects are.... it does not take long for their true selves to become clear in the patterns they leave behind.

Its lazy and easy to fall for the emotionalist propaganda where the whores like Biden says whatever gives them the most profit, on the other hand its clear that SA an Brazil etc was used as beta tests for every insane leftist policy now being rammed down in the general West. Almost nothing happening there now surprises me except for the increasingly desperate acceleration into chaos. Down here they took their time to utterly demoralize and impoverish their conservative opponents... up there its a mad dash almost as if someone wants to spark a conservative uprising they think they can control.

The real threat is not the attack dog but the master that drives it.

Sure Trump can potentially be a threat to the Republic in his at times irresponsibility.... but at least he is not actively trying to dismantle it and increase centralized state power at the expense of individual rights. This is not even a political fight anymore, it's an entrenched perpetual bureaucracy attempting to squash the ability of people to resist arbitrary dictates.... you cannot really argue that madman Trump is not doing what he is doing out of principle... Biden even when he was not senile has never had ANY consistent principles.

And that comes to the core problem, Trump is trying to protect the Representative Republic against crazies that want to transform it into a Socialist Democracy with no borders where mob rule dictates what gets done.... as was done to SA where at least a 3rd of the population is here illegally. They even now have riot seasons like we do where you never know how many buildings will get burnt down and the liquor stores always get looted. Up next "we demand service delivery" so they burn down a school to force the state to build a better one or the trains because they were late.

What started as BEE here got the woke addon over there and if allowed to continue will result in mass bankruptcies after years of declining capacity to actually provide the products sold.... inflating the unemployment rate already inflated by mass illegal migration.

Not a single social or economic problem everyone is suddenly freaking out about did not hit us first in some way.... the only difference is the amazing speed of it all.

Yeah, I don't think there is a single force with a single agenda in both South Africa and US. Thats just conspiratorial style thinking.

 

[Rambo919]

[A few moments later ... /narrator]

As I said, actions not words. If he actually does step out of line my assessment will change.

 

[Rambo919]

The fact that anyone believes this after the SCOTUS ruling and Trump's immediate move to capitalise on said ruling just demonstrates how the idea of a "moderator-free" discussion is completely out of sync with how far-right talking points work.

meh, I don't fall for the idiotic team sport thing everyone keeps trying to force me into.

 

[Lexicus]

As I said, actions not words. If he actually does step out of line my assessment will change.

@Sommerswerd # 2 voice "that, too, has already happened"

 

[Rambo919]

Yeah, I don't think there is a single force with a single agenda in both South Africa and US. Thats just conspiratorial style thinking.

Does not have to be, the mistake people make is to try to force simplistic comic book style thinking of secret societies an cigar smoke.... when such things have long since been a relic of the past. It's much more corporatized la cosa nostra now than delusions of glorious proletariat revolution.

 

[Birdjaguar]

As I said, actions not words. If he actually does step out of line my assessment will change.

If he is elected, it will be too late. By his past actions we already know Trump....
...is a grandiose liar about all things
...is a tax cheat
...out to use the presidency to profit personally
...out to use the presidency to avoid future court cases
...wants to reduce taxes on the most wealthy and no one else
...take vengeance on his enemies
...favor Putin's aggressive attacks in Europe
...will try to remain in office longer than the law allows
...hates democracy
...cares for no one except himself
...will ignore his oath of office

 

[Rambo919]

Trump and his associates are in fact

Rambo.

They want state power so centralized that L'Etat, c'est Trump (and his lickspittles).

Authoritarianism is the ultimate centralization of state power, its non plus ultra. (Putting Trump in that center probably also counts as some kind of reductio ad absurdum.)

(If I can be forgiven some French and Latin formulations of our horrifyingly American situation.)

The fact of the matter is the revolutionary fanatical factions of the left have been trapped in their obsession of radical social and economic transformation and are blaming the results on the reactionary right.

Everything from this point is largely predictable, the revolutionaries will double down and the reactionaries will increasingly distance themselves from central government once they wake up and realize that the game is rigged against them, it's like having demons be both your advocate and prosecutor. I can only think that this is on purpose so as to provoke the cannon fodder on both sides to physically attack each other which will be used as an excuse to further strengthen centralized authority. Its a very good strategy assuming that anyone that wakes up and sees what is happening gets suppressed by either side.

Standard hegalian dialectic really. Trump is not hitler, he is just the only right wing voice with enough authority to be taken seriously.... and he's not even really conservative. I don't think he actually believes everything he says but from what I can gather his main objective is to bring security and stability back.... because he seems to actually want to keep murica murican. Nothing is what it appears to be of course but he is more trustworthy than a cleptocrat who has ties to foreign corruptocrats.... he has enough of his own ill gotten gains and is risking jail time to fight his fight... which I very much respect.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Trump stands for Trump. That's why I put my point the way I did.

 

[Rambo919]

If he is elected, it will be too late. By his past actions we already know Trump....
...is a grandiose liar about all things

So is Biden but Trump is much more entertaining

...is a tax cheat

So is every other high ranking politician and their main donors

...out to use the presidency to profit personally
...out to use the presidency to avoid future court cases

So does his competition

...wants to reduce taxes on the most wealthy and no one else

Because overtaxing your fattest cows results in less tax income in the long run

...take vengeance on his enemies

tit for tat

...favor Putin's aggressive attacks in Europe

And yet if he was president at the time that likely would not have happened

...will try to remain in office longer than the law allows

Which Obama has sucesfully done by proxy

...hates democracy

So does any rational person, murica is a Republic not a Democracy.... note the difference between Democratic and Democracy

...cares for no one except himself
...will ignore his oath of office

Again.... nothing he originated

 

[Rambo919]

Trump stands for Trump. That's why I put my point the way I did.

So has every president in the last few decades

 

[Gorbles]

meh, I don't fall for the idiotic team sport thing everyone keeps trying to force me into.

Like you said, actions matter. I don't go on "team sports". I go on the things you say and believe in.

 

[Senethro]

Does not have to be, the mistake people make is to try to force simplistic comic book style thinking of secret societies an cigar smoke.... when such things have long since been a relic of the past. It's much more corporatized la cosa nostra now than delusions of glorious proletariat revolution.

No, thats still a conspiracy, even if it has a different aesthetic. Its not very plausible. They need links, resources and people all of which leave trails.

 

[Rambo919]

You guys don't get it.... presidential politics are nothing more than reality TV where two sides are set up and manipulated into fighting each other.... it's all a pathetic sham that will inevitably end in bloodshed.

 

[Rambo919]

To further drive the point of how demoralized murican society has become which has driven it to the precipice of civil war.

 

[Gorbles]

You guys don't get it.... presidential politics are nothing more than reality TV where two sides are set up and manipulated into fighting each other.... it's all a pathetic sham that will inevitably end in bloodshed.

Disagreeing with far-right conspiracy theories isn't the same as "not getting it".

 

[Rambo919]

Disagreeing with far-right conspiracy theories isn't the same as "not getting it".

Dismissing everything that makes you uncomfortable with buzzwords is.

 

[Sommerswerd]

@Sommerswerd # 2 voice "that, too also, already has already happened"

FTFY , but yes, correct

 

[Gorbles]

Dismissing everything that makes you uncomfortable with buzzwords is.

You say, using "woke".

But no, it's not dismissal. I'm just not playing by the rules you're attempting to impose by all the galloping of the gish, here.

Again it's just evidence that Theov's unfettered free speech spiel doesn't hold up in reality.