WW2-Global

[Adler17]

Well German Stukas are very good in sinking enemy BBs. HOWEVER the whole sea fight system in civ 3 is crap. Absolutely. Also if you use planes that have such a good performance they will be out of any relation used also at land. You can´t give a unit only land bombing or only sea bombing. Also AI (artificial iditoy) is not using carrier that well.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

General comment on the naval system:

The current system is really oversimplified.

I will try to do what is possible with the current sytem but one
can only hope that CIV 4 will offer a heavily improved system including
Anti Submarine Warfare.

Then hopefully the best ASW-ship will not be a battleship.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I'm talking to be historicaly accurate !

One carrier should be suffisant to sunk a ship

LBPB,

Several air-units that can be carrier-based will be more lethal in
version 1.4.

Rocoteh

 

[LBPB]

LBPB,

Several air-units that can be carrier-based will be more lethal in
version 1.4.

Rocoteh

That's cool

 

[allin1joe]

Japanese Playtest

Week 14, 1940
Destroyed
British -- 1 Light Cruiser, 4 Destroyers
Chinese -- 4 Infantry. Nanning Captured. Army created. Time to re-create my tank army. An army of Marines is a waste since they have blitz already.

Lost
1 Infantry, 1 Sub

Counter
Destroyed
British -- 1 Destroyer

Lost
1 Sub

Allies and Soviets sign peace

Week 15, 1940
Destroyed
Chinese -- 4 Infantry. Kunming captured.
British -- 1 Destroyer, 1 Marine

Lost
1 Infantry -- Elite didnt even scratch a conscript.

Brazil declared on the Germans

Week 16, 1940
Destroyed
Chinese -- 2 Infantry
French -- 1 Garrison
British -- 1 Marine

Counter

Argentina declared on the Germans.

Week 17, 1940
Destroyed
Chinese -- 2 Infantry
France -- 1 Garrison. Hanoi captured.
Communist China -- 1 Infantry.

Week 18, 1940
Destroyed
British -- 1 Infantry, 1 Marine, 5 Bombers, 1 Destroyer

Lost 1 Destroyer
I am bombing Mandalay. I got sick of getting bombed from the British.

Counter
Destroyed
British --1 Destroyer

Week 19, 1940
Destroyed
Communist China -- 1 Infantry
British -- 2 Infantry, 1 Garrison, 1 Marine, 1 Artillery. Mandalay captured.

Counter

Americans are back. A fleet of battleships & heavy cruisers re-appears by the Kuriles. 3 Battleships and 5 Heavy Cruisers.

Week 20, 1943
Destroyed
British -- 3 Marines

Lost
3 Marines

 

[Rocoteh]

allin1joe,

Thank you for the report.

With regard to unit-building: Will you give priority to a naval
build-up, or do you think army and air-force is more important now?

Even if you lost several battleships you also inflicted very severe
losses on the US naval forces. I think it will take many turns before
the US navy can be a real problem again.

The worst problem for Japan (as in reality) is that the production-base
is not large compared the huge area the forces have to cover.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[allin1joe]

allin1joe,

Thank you for the report.

With regard to unit-building: Will you give priority to a naval
build-up, or do you think army and air-force is more important now?

Even if you lost several battleships you also inflicted very severe
losses on the US naval forces. I think it will take many turns before
the US navy can be a real problem again.

The worst problem for Japan (as in reality) is that the production-base
is not large compared the huge area the forces have to cover.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

I have diverted 5 cities to producing naval vessels right now. I have been toying around with re-building my destroyer fleet, but they can be a pain to protect. So, I have Tokyo (fresh off it's build of the intelligence agency) building a Yamato every 10 turns, and one other mainland city building one in 17 turns. 2 other cities are building Heavy Cruisers every 6 turns. A fifth is building light cruisers every 6 turns. Once I get done with an off-shore platform, I plan to divert a 6th city to building the smaller ships (destroyer/sub) every 2-3 turns. After the 2nd Yamato is built, I can divert that 2nd city to other ships if I'd like, but my fleet of Heavy Cruisers is already getting large in numbers, so I might stick with the Yamato there, even with it taking over 4 months to build. Tokyo builds nothing but Yamatos from now on. It's producing 102 shields per turn, and I am working on more with railroads.

As for my landlocked cities, most are still building up factory/coal/manufacturing plants. If I remember correctly, I have 7-8 cities building units. The stronger ones are building Marines and Heavy Artillery(starting to concentrate more on this as I only have 2 artillery units at the moment). The weaker ones are building dive bombers(cheaper then Sallys and just as effective except for range). Plus, when I need them, I can rebase them to carriers. I won't be building any more fighters until Zeros come in (6 more turns on Land/Air 1940, then I need Air 1941). I will save up some money and try to steal it from the Americans as I have planted a spy there. I do not know what techs they have though, and right now, I don't have enough gold. I researched at a negative clip for a while to get Sea 1940.

I plan to take my Asia fight west as far as Calcutta, then I'll work my way back and fully secure the SE penisula. I can then go back and finish off the Chinese and Commuist China. I planned on polishing off the penisula first, but bombers from Mandalay were being a pain, so I need to push the British further away.

 

[allin1joe]

I just ordered a 1GB memory stick to upgrade my current memory of 512MB. Should be interesting to see what that does for the speed of this scenario. I should have it by the end of the week.

 

[Rocoteh]

I have diverted 5 cities to producing naval vessels right now. I have been toying around with re-building my destroyer fleet, but they can be a pain to protect. So, I have Tokyo (fresh off it's build of the intelligence agency) building a Yamato every 10 turns, and one other mainland city building one in 17 turns. 2 other cities are building Heavy Cruisers every 6 turns. A fifth is building light cruisers every 6 turns. Once I get done with an off-shore platform, I plan to divert a 6th city to building the smaller ships (destroyer/sub) every 2-3 turns. After the 2nd Yamato is built, I can divert that 2nd city to other ships if I'd like, but my fleet of Heavy Cruisers is already getting large in numbers, so I might stick with the Yamato there, even with it taking over 4 months to build. Tokyo builds nothing but Yamatos from now on. It's producing 102 shields per turn, and I am working on more with railroads.

As for my landlocked cities, most are still building up factory/coal/manufacturing plants. If I remember correctly, I have 7-8 cities building units. The stronger ones are building Marines and Heavy Artillery(starting to concentrate more on this as I only have 2 artillery units at the moment). The weaker ones are building dive bombers(cheaper then Sallys and just as effective except for range). Plus, when I need them, I can rebase them to carriers. I won't be building any more fighters until Zeros come in (6 more turns on Land/Air 1940, then I need Air 1941). I will save up some money and try to steal it from the Americans as I have planted a spy there. I do not know what techs they have though, and right now, I don't have enough gold. I researched at a negative clip for a while to get Sea 1940.

I plan to take my Asia fight west as far as Calcutta, then I'll work my way back and fully secure the SE penisula. I can then go back and finish off the Chinese and Commuist China. I planned on polishing off the penisula first, but bombers from Mandalay were being a pain, so I need to push the British further away.

allin1joe,

Maybe the major powers should have the intelligence agency free
from start. I will consider that for 1.4.

Your building-strategy seems to be very good.
I think the Shokaku fast Carriers should be of high value in 1.4.
With a move of 9 its powerful units.

I also consider to give Japan a auto-produced air-unit.

Going for British India later in the scenario can be a good idea.

"I just ordered a 1GB memory stick to upgrade my current memory of 512MB. Should be interesting to see what that does for the speed of this scenario. I should have it by the end of the week" allin1joe

I think this will make great difference.

I am looking forward to follow this very interesting playtest.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[allin1joe]

allin1joe,

Your building-strategy seems to be very good.
I think the Shokaku fast Carriers should be of high value in 1.4.
With a move of 9 its powerful units.

I also consider to give Japan a auto-produced air-unit.

Move of 9?? Only a destroyer would be able to escort it with that movement rate. Will it be able to defend itself, or will it be completely dependent on escorts like the current version? To be fully honest, movement of 9 doesn't mean much if the best escorts still only move 5. I suppose you could move ahead, use the planes to bomb whatever you want, then move them back to the escorts, but I doubt the AI would know to do that.

As for an auto build air unit, that would be interesting. I notice the game starts with 1 Kamakazee. When is that buildable? Maybe that should be auto produced? Just thinking out loud

 

[Rocoteh]

Move of 9?? Only a destroyer would be able to escort it with that movement rate. Will it be able to defend itself, or will it be completely dependent on escorts like the current version? To be fully honest, movement of 9 doesn't mean much if the best escorts still only move 5. I suppose you could move ahead, use the planes to bomb whatever you want, then move them back to the escorts, but I doubt the AI would know to do that.

As for an auto build air unit, that would be interesting. I notice the game starts with 1 Kamakazee. When is that buildable? Maybe that should be auto produced? Just thinking out loud

allin1joe,

Yes you are right on the escorts. Still a move rate of 9 is realistic.
It could be of some value in transit-moves with only destroyers
as escort.

The Escort-carrier with move 5, transport 2 air-units, 140 shields
also added.

The Kamakazee-unit at start is a bug. It should be available 1943.
Autoproduction of it is a good idea. Probably there will also be
autoproduction of Ki-43.

Rocoteh

 

[allin1joe]

allin1joe,

Yes you are right on the escorts. Still a move rate of 9 is realistic.
It could be of some value in transit-moves with only destroyers
as escort.

The Escort-carrier with move 5, transport 2 air-units, 140 shields
also added.

The Kamakazee-unit at start is a bug. It should be available 1943.
Autoproduction of it is a good idea. Probably there will also be
autoproduction of Ki-43.

Rocoteh

It would give me a reason to re-build my destroyer fleet. Right now, I have about 5 left I believe and I don't have many plans of rebuilding them. I'm concentrating on the larger ships since destroyers are cannon fodder basically. With submarine's slow movement rate, I don't have many plans to rebuild that fleet either.

I hope to be able to post another set of turns tonight, but I might buckle down and get work done before my RAM gets here so I can play in earnest when it gets here So, if you don't see me for a week, that's why.

 

[Bob1475]

Germany - ver 1.3 - Emperor

In my earlier post I mentioned that we were on the verge of invasion of North America. Forces landed in week 31 of 1944. Unfortunately contact made earlier than expected since US had posted listening posts further than expected from Fairbanks (my fault, should have sent recon air mission). In any case the battle for Alask continued for many months and in the end I was forced?( OK maybe I was bored!) to use A Bombs to kill off stacks of US and UK tanks near Whitehorse.

Building railroads through the tundra, mountains and forests took a long time (especially after a US tank stack drove deep and took out 32 workers!).

I ferried all units over via my cholkhold between Siberia and Alaska.
Air units also ferried over as I view carriers as inefficient. In any case, interestingly air was not a major problem since AI did not rebase and once the two American cities were taken UK air not significant since they have lost most of the empire. I kept expecting to get hit by a carrier task force but the AI is stubbornly still attacking Asia from Japan, etc.

I was forced to take out Sweden and Norway after the Abomb attack and this slowed me down.

Interestingly the Dutch have proven to be very agressive. Three landings on Africa which beats the Americans. Of course they are easily destroyed. Their air units from Indonesia have been stubbornly attacking Singapore and I had to divert a number of BBs to knock them back. I don't want to invade the islands as the US seems to love attacking islands but is afraid of the mainland (must be that old rule of "no Asian land war").

It is now [FONT=Arial Black[/FONT]]week 19 of 1945 and I have taken Seattle after a major battle for Vancouver.My swarms of SS Panzer 1944s are driving down the coast as the railroad is only about two months from completion. US resistance is not strong as their reserves perished in the Atomic blasts in the north.

Still no atomic attack from the US.

Note - AI seems to be afraid of ME262 fighters. Once a city has about 3 of these fighters on Air Superiority Mission bombing runs almost stop. I am testing this out in other cities. Also, although we know via earlier tests that effectiveness of Flak is negligible beyond 4 units, the AI seems afraid of stacks of 6-7 Flak.

I believe my strategy of using the German armor superiority is working although at this point I have more bombers than the US and will simply overpower them.

Of course, managing 2100 units is a chore so turns take a long time - especially my ferrying process but I can sense the tide has turned and the US will fold unless they go Atomic or have some hidden tank reserves outside of cities.

As I said, I will finish this although it will take time.

 

[antoine]

USA emperor 1.3

week 4, 1941

Short macro comments :

- Sud America too easy to take, too rich and too productive ( Caracas is by far my richest city with pop 13 197 commerce after corruption )

- Axis has no more military ( from the beginning I invaded Spain and Portugal and South of France and that made it mad) and has never declare war to Russia ( since long Japan as no more navy ...)

- May be a good idea is to give each civ some strong points as in real life ( ex Montecassino in Italy / Okinawa -bloody atol - and others pacific Island that were very hard to take for US forces)

-Russia is at peace from the start --> set AI aggres. to high

- Russia in my game has no significant offensive power relative to I ( 45 T34 6 KV1 105 mg 200 infantry)

My next game will be with France I think

Regards

 

[KristiB]

Roco,

Might consider making flak units as being 'escort only' if that's possible. In the German invasion of Russia, I smashed a big stack of flak that they were running around by themselves. I also notice Italy was doing the same sometimes as their units were running through my territory; a big stack of flak with no escorting infantry.

Also might consider making AA cruisers able to see subs. Their stats are fairly similiar and it'd make them alittle more useful considering their shield cost.

Kristi

 

[Sasebo]

I was going to hold off until week 39, 1940 to give you a 1st year report Rocoteh, but some of the above posters made me want to add something now.

Week 28,1940- Suribaya Taken. Week 30- Timor,Alexandrovsk taken.
Week 31- USSR asks for peace; we accept taking Vladivostok, and El Aghelia, planning on returning it to Italy. Axis makes peace, and USSR immediately declares war on Germany right after the negotiations. I got to see stacks of paras and marines at least before they took El Agheila back....
Week 34- Singapore falls! I had to empty out the nearby city of Palambaya of troops to take out the last artillery pieces. They had 2 Inf, 1 flak, 2 DD,2 artillery, a Fighter and a bomber in there. Lost no troops but some of my marines were redlined.

It is amazing how much trouble the UK air has been giving me operating on my flanks from Port Moresby/Darwin and Singapore. Sarmi & Fakfak have not had a garrison for some 15 turns now. I had a full strength CA get wiped by two UK dive bombers. Whatever that bomber is the UK is using it has range and a lot of punch, they regularly hit my BBs for 3 hp. I hate them. I have shot down many but they always have more.

Bob1475: I don't know about the Me262, but I have seen the AI send waves of bombers early in the scenario over my fleet with 40+ DD and other heavy ships with flak in them. The ^$$^% survived a long time too. Maybe it is more of a factor late in the game though. Me, I would have called their air units fearless compared to mine.

Allin1joe: I find your naval strategy interesting, since I love my DDs and protect them fiercely! I have at least 5 cities building more as we speak. Only 5 DD left?!? How do you do reconaissance??? I would not feel secure without my hordes of flak/recon/sub spotters. I've lost 17 so far and cursed every one. You don't keep them stacked with heavier ships? I have at least 1 DD in every port and at least 4 with every BB/CV group; they are like remoras on sharks.

I have not gone all the way with my industry though; I stopped after factories since I didn't want all that pollution and my production is fine for my needs. Oh, I can always use more Infantry, but I can manage. I have Tokyo making YamatoC and Osaka is building a CV2 right now, the rest are on DDs mostly. The mainland produces all my ground unit and most of my air units; The Iron Works city is making 162 shields and is making an artillery every turn; I have about 15 I think. I also made a big push to get some Zeros into play so I have about 6 now, but I disrupted my ground unit production to do it.

Rocoteh: I still have that Kamikaze sitting around somewhere, thanks for reminding me. I was saving it to beat on a US BB but none came within range. I noticed you can't load it on ships is that intentional?

 

[Rocoteh]

It would give me a reason to re-build my destroyer fleet. Right now, I have about 5 left I believe and I don't have many plans of rebuilding them. I'm concentrating on the larger ships since destroyers are cannon fodder basically. With submarine's slow movement rate, I don't have many plans to rebuild that fleet either.

I hope to be able to post another set of turns tonight, but I might buckle down and get work done before my RAM gets here so I can play in earnest when it gets here So, if you don't see me for a week, that's why.

allin1joe,

I am also consider to introduce Destroyer-flotilla unit, representing
6 ships. Maybe that would make it more interesting to build destroyers.
This unit would then have attack 11, defense 8, move 8, AA 2, transport 1,
Bombard 10, Range 1, ROF 1 and HP +15. Shield cost 240.

Would you build submarines if they had blitz?

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Adler17]

Concerning BBs:
Top speed of Scharnhorst class was 31.5 kn. Top speed of Bismarck class was from construction 29 kn, achieved were 30.8 kn. H- class should have costed 240 mio RM and should have had a top speed of 30 kn.
So I suggest following movement points:
DDs, S- boats, MTBs, PT boats: 9 (35-40 kn)
CLs, Admiral Hipper class CAs, some Japanese CA as well, Graf Zeppelin class CV:8 (32- 34kn)
CAs, Bismarck, Scharnhorst, H- class, Iowa, Hood:7 (30- 32 kn)
BBs, Deutschland class, type XXI Uboats: 6 (26- 30 kn)
SS, Nelson class: 5 (20- 25 kn)
CDS: 4 (-19 kn)
SC: 3

This is a rough number. Also of many ships I don´t know the speed. That´s why I introduced the kn. However submarines are out of the scheme. The type XXI boats were the fastest Uboats and were very silent, so it is a good idea to give them an additional movement point.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

Concerning BBs:
Top speed of Scharnhorst class was 31.5 kn. Top speed of Bismarck class was from construction 29 kn, achieved were 30.8 kn. H- class should have costed 240 mio RM and should have had a top speed of 30 kn.
So I suggest following movement points:
DDs, S- boats, MTBs, PT boats: 9 (35-40 kn)
CLs, Admiral Hipper class CAs, some Japanese CA as well, Graf Zeppelin class CV:8 (32- 34kn)
CAs, Bismarck, Scharnhorst, H- class, Iowa, Hood:7 (30- 32 kn)
BBs, Deutschland class, type XXI Uboats: 6 (26- 30 kn)
SS, Nelson class: 5 (20- 25 kn)
CDS: 4 (-19 kn)
SC: 3

This is a rough number. Also of many ships I don´t know the speed. That´s why I introduced the kn. However submarines are out of the scheme. The type XXI boats were the fastest Uboats and were very silent, so it is a good idea to give them an additional movement point.

Adler

Adler,

Thank you for the suggestions on stats. They are interesting.

I will have them in mind when I rework move-stats before the
release of version 1.4.

Shokaku had top-speed 34 kn.

Rocoteh

 

[Adler17]

Rocoteh, a whole flotilla of DDs was able to sink a BB with torpedoes. Also they had much more guns... Would higher stats for attack and defense not be more realistic?

Adler