WW2-Global

[Rocoteh]

Sasebo,

Thank you for the report.

"Germany 1.9, week 17, 1940- It's very quiet. British fleet is down to 2 heavy and 6 light cruisers. Oh, and 2 DD and 5 transports...I have no idea what they are using for escorts. French had a CA,BC,and a BB(the last of their fleet too) bombarding Siscily while I amphibiously assaulted Corsica and Rabat/Casablanca. Only the BB is left, and I am poised to take Algiers and Marrakesh soonest. Only thing slowing me down is getting my troops over the straights. Germany just can't seem to build enough transports. I expect the French to be pushovers. I have yet to decide whether to head south and swing around or to take the sea route to Suez. I've a feeling Malta will simply be a bear to take, I may avoid it for a while. I was toying with the idea of going into Russia now, but I am just not producing enough in western Europe yet to make that feasible. I finally got a spy in Russia, and they have a ton of units but no modern ones. Huge numbers though. So for now, it's Africa and buildup."
Sasebo

Its incredible how bad AI handles its naval forces.

Maybe its best to wait with Russia until you have build up your
production-capacity.

"US worker totals look like they will surpass me soon; I build one per turn out of Sofia, and have since the start of the game. Soviets have 72!! workers! Like 30 more then me, I am actually shocked. If only Italy and Japan would build more,sheesh!
Sasebo

72 workers!
Yes its a real surprise.

"Not sure what the stats on the Spitfire in your latest version are Rocoteh,but I notice the ones in 1.9 are way better then the Me109s...all the accounts I've ever read had them better in different areas but basically near even. Did you pump them up a little, or were they that much better then the 109s? Aaaah! I think I've asked you this one before."
Sasebo

They were better. However they are maybe somewhat to strong.
At least the above holds true with regard to early versions.
I will look it over.
Its possible I will both of them split them into several versions.

"Looking over the units last night I noticed that there isn't much reason to build that Hs129? DB or that Me410(F). The Hs is only a little bit tougher then the Stuka, and has less firepower, while the fighter is worse then the Me109 you start with. When I was playing Japan I noticed there were some odd air units that didn't have a role I could figure out: Why would I build a Jack, especially since it is worse then the Zero and you get it after the Zero in the tech tree??? Now, I am using an older version of course. I also saw in a few people's reports on your beta test that Germany gets motorized infantry. What kind of stats do those have? I really miss a unit like that, I am waitng for the day when I can finally build Panzergrenadiers."
Sasebo

Some of these stats should be changed. Some recflect the fact that
new weapon system not always were better than old ones.

Stats for Germany Motorized Infantry:
Attack 12, defence, 14 HP +2, Move 2, Shields 140.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh, I disagree on Germany being the most easy Civ to play. As US player you can sit back, conquer South America without sweat and built up the largest army ever seen without much to worry about. If you loose the Philipenes - who cares? The AI is unable to conduct a successful naval landing in America, I have not yet seen a city besides Halifax been taken and hold be the AI in all my games.
You maybe lack tanks in the endgame but your navy and airforce will make up for this.
However IMHO USA is the most boring nation to play because that incredibly long buildup.

Best regards Iarn

IarnGreiper,

Yes you are right.

There have been so few playtest reports on US the last months
that I did not have in mind.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

"How can one find out how many units country XYZ has left? (I am just not an expert in these matters ... "
Baldurslayer

You must place a spy in the CIV you want info on and then
you must steal the military plans.

Rocoteh

 

[I_batman]

Hi Rocoteh: Haven't been at Civ III for a bit, getting my feet wet with Python and XML for Civ IV.

Brought back up a "small" map WWII-Global game I am on, which I think is 1.8.
One general question I have, and this reverts to virtually all scenarios, is the AI decides on one naval unit is the primary unit to build.

In WWII Global, it appears to be the destroyer flotilla-1941. That and transports.
Any idea why it does that?

I am wondering if anybody has figured out the algorithm the AI uses for this?
I am guessing it is a cost/firepower/defensive ability combination.

 

[Rocoteh]

Hi Rocoteh: Haven't been at Civ III for a bit, getting my feet wet with Python and XML for Civ IV.

Brought back up a "small" map WWII-Global game I am on, which I think is 1.8.
One general question I have, and this reverts to virtually all scenarios, is the AI decides on one naval unit is the primary unit to build.

In WWII Global, it appears to be the destroyer flotilla-1941. That and transports.
Any idea why it does that?

I am wondering if anybody has figured out the algorithm the AI uses for this?
I am guessing it is a cost/firepower/defensive ability combination.

I_batman,

More than a year ago ozymandias had a thread where this issue was
discussed. No answer was found, but it seems to be more complicated
that one can think.

In this case I think AI choose the destroyer-flotilla as "best buy"
because of the extra hitpoints compared to shield cost.

Rocoteh

 

[I_batman]

I_batman,

More than a year ago ozymandias had a thread where this issue was
discussed. No answer was found, but it seems to be more complicated
that one can think.

In this case I think AI choose the destroyer-flotilla as "best buy"
because of the extra hitpoints compared to shield cost.

Rocoteh

Thanks Rocoteh. Figured it was a pipe dream, but thought I would ask.
BTW, when I was examining the Python code in Civ IV, a number of things seemed to jump out at me.

Two that I hope I am correct about, and may be of interest to you are:

1. It appears to be possible to code cyclical tile changes to a map, aka seasons.
Would think that would make invasions of Russia interesting.
2. I believe it is also possible to establish caps on unit builds, and possibly ratios of one type of unit quantity compared to another.

I am a long, long way from testing these potential changes, but appears to be possible.

 

[Rocoteh]

Thanks Rocoteh. Figured it was a pipe dream, but thought I would ask.
BTW, when I was examining the Python code in Civ IV, a number of things seemed to jump out at me.

Two that I hope I am correct about, and may be of interest to you are:

1. It appears to be possible to code cyclical tile changes to a map, aka seasons.
Would think that would make invasions of Russia interesting.
2. I believe it is also possible to establish caps on unit builds, and possibly ratios of one type of unit quantity compared to another.

I am a long, long way from testing these potential changes, but appears to be possible.

I_batman,

1. This is great news! It should have heavy impact on scenarios
operational/strategic.

2. Should also be of great value.

Rocoteh

 

[El Justo]

i agree. I_b is trained in that stuff so i know that i'll lean on his knowledge when the time comes for civ4 scenarios...

 

[eric_A]

I_batman,

More than a year ago ozymandias had a thread where this issue was
discussed. No answer was found, but it seems to be more complicated
that one can think.

In this case I think AI choose the destroyer-flotilla as "best buy"
because of the extra hitpoints compared to shield cost.

Rocoteh

Rocoteh:
That is interesting, in my Hinge of Fate scenario the AI always choses to
build top-of the-line battleships such as Yamato or KGV class even though
battleships have FEWER hit points than cruiser or destroyer units and they
cost more. They do have higher attack and defense rating and a 2 tile
bombard range compared with other ships.

 

[ProudSocialist]

my 2.0 version freezes, when loading scenerio, should i just wait ten minitutues or is my computer just slow?

 

[Rocoteh]

my 2.0 version freezes, when loading scenerio, should i just wait ten minitutues or is my computer just slow?

ProudSocialist,

If you wait ten minutes it should load.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh:
That is interesting, in my Hinge of Fate scenario the AI always choses to
build top-of the-line battleships such as Yamato or KGV class even though
battleships have FEWER hit points than cruiser or destroyer units and they
cost more. They do have higher attack and defense rating and a 2 tile
bombard range compared with other ships.

eric_A,

Yes its very hard to see how AI works with regard to this.

Some basic patterns are clear though:
Such as AI will always build up a force of "basic" units (infantry)
before it starts to produce any advanced units.


Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

i agree. I_b is trained in that stuff so i know that i'll lean on his knowledge when the time comes for civ4 scenarios...

El Justo,

I think teams have to be formed to create CIV IV scenarios
where some of the members can write code.


Rocoteh

 

[Hornblower]

Roc,

On the naval units that the AI chooses to build.
At present I am playtesting your large map 1.8 Beta as Germany.
I have found that the UK AI is churning out B2 Battleships and KGV's as fast as possible. (They only have 4 KGV's but I have sunk 3 as well.)
The US AI has built 6 C2 battleships as well.
The Japanese AI have built 9 Yamato's.
It seems with your removal of the DD flot that the AI has no more problems with putting out pissy little naval units.

 

[Rocoteh]

Roc,

On the naval units that the AI chooses to build.
At present I am playtesting your large map 1.8 Beta as Germany.
I have found that the UK AI is churning out B2 Battleships and KGV's as fast as possible. (They only have 4 KGV's but I have sunk 3 as well.)
The US AI has built 6 C2 battleships as well.
The Japanese AI have built 9 Yamato's.
It seems with your removal of the DD flot that the AI has no more problems with putting out pissy little naval units.

Hornblower,

Thank you for the info.

One must say that Conquests is a heavy improvement
compared to CIV III with regard to AI-production.

I think the AI naval production you mention here is rather good.

Rocoteh

 

[Bob1475]

Rocoteh - Having spent a lot of time on CIV IV I have the following observations -

1. I played most of the scenarios until the EARTH scenario. The map appears OK but it is huge. Accordingly around 1600 I hit the infamous virtual memory problem and could not continue. It was a very interesting game, I played as Germany at Noble level and had all of Scandanavia, most of European Russia France and the slavic areas. Rome had Italy and Spain and after a war Greece just had Athens. I had moved into the Americas which had numerous "barb" cities - very interesting and a lot of fun trying to decide to expand in Americas and worrying about having forces split. Then the vm problem. My suggestion is not to proceed with Global until a fix is found for huge maps.

2. I played the Greek world scenario as Rome and did win. This scenario includes some timing factor which starts to generate lots of barbarians as you get into the AD time period. In fact they were being generated right within my cultural boundaries and very close to cities. I immediately thought how you could use this to generate "resistance guerilla forces" in Serbia or to a lesser degree in France, even timed to specific years! I don't understand exactly the technology but it was very interesting!

3. I played the American Revolution scenario which was not as interesting other than the provision for some timed replensishment of British troops. Something to think about re dealing with American supplies to Russia or even air force to Great Britain! Advantage over the wonders concept is that you can determine timing.

4. As earlier stated Desert War is in our time period and many of the units will no doubt be used. I played this early on and did not finish, I will go back again.

5. The graphics are interesting, the diplomacy not quite as interesting as the AI is not open to much trading (or just smarter?). Espionage has been toned down. I was frustrated at the beginning in taking enemy cities and not knowing if there was a wonder in the city - no CIV 3 pop-up message so I never razed (which is a game option now!). I thought the only solution was spies until it hit me that you actually can see the wonders without going into the city!

6. Graphics are annoying at the beginning and a lot of fun later. However, the drag on your system is dramatic. I have eliminated the multiple units (3) and gone back to one with a health bar which requires fewer pixels. Also working at medium graphics and I don't really miss anything. If you are looking for a large scenario then something has to give on graphics and you may have to freeze the rivers from flowing, etc.

Biggest issue right now is understanding Python and the system which I will be looking into shortly.

Looking forward to lots of CIV 4 scenarios from you in the future!

 

[El Justo]

Bob1475,

that's interesting info. thanks for posting it.

it appears than any global-type scenario for civ4 is unlikely until they hash out the vm stuff. it's a shame, too, as this will have a huge impact on civ4 c&c/scenario creation.

 

[Hornblower]

Germany - Beta1.8 Emperor
A quick update...
Despite initial thoughts of a cunning Soviet AI it seems that I was wrong. Upon declaring war on me back in 1940 and at times having me a little concerned about holding off the horde I have convincingly broken the AI's back.
A massive tank battle around Stalingrad saw 170 soviet tanks fielded and destroyed in 3 turns with the loss of only 14 tanks in my own 140 strong tank army. This was largely due to 4 (12 strong) airgroups of Stukas and cunningly laid tank traps across the borders. Once the Soviets were beaten down to 30 tanks scattered across their empire they capitulated and begged peace with the Japanese. I then redeclare war the next turn and continue on my punishing tour of the USSR. This has been the pattern throughout 1940/41 and now 42.
Wk 1 1942.
The Swedes demanded something ridiculous as to keep my ROP. I declined since i did not want to move my static sea mine defences. This led to a forced war but I shall give the conquered Swedish territories (and later Norway) to Finland to help her on the way to becoming a useful ally.
Wk 2 1942.
I had a carrier battlegroup anchored off Amsterdam giving air cover to bombarding S-Boats. Somehow I missed an attack that led to my C2 Battleships that were guarding the Graf Zeppelin carrier group. All four must have got sunk by either air or the 4 KGV's hiding in London. Anyway I suddenly saw the Graf Zeppelin sinking to the bottom. This led to the 14 Bismarcks that were covering the northern approaches to come south and deal out some timely justice.
Wk 3 '42.
The Bismarck Task Force caught 4 KGV's and 3 C2 Battleships out maurauding along my Atlantic coast. Needless to say all were dispatched with no losses to me.
The timely researching of Sea 1942 this turn will allow me to replace my ill fated Carrier Battlegroup with Hindenburg BB's for protection. They make good escorts since they travel at similar speeds, make for good city bombarders and mutal protection is enjoyed by all.
The UK AI continues sporadic long range bombing into Germany despite it having no real effects. It does give the German fighters a chance to become elite units and tranfers to other theatres though.
Wk 4 '42.
I cast my eye over to the Japs and saw that they continue to raise three quarters of the cities they fight over. The US AI has staged an amphib invasion of the Jap home islands and the southern most city is raised. Kitakyshu is occupied by the Americans but is size one. It will probably get raised sooner or later too.
I have noticed that the US AI is leaning toward invading the southern Jap home island in almost every game I play now regardless of difficulty. I think that this is a good outcome though.
The Afrika Korps has also conducted a move into africa via Tobruk. 14 Paratroop planes dropped infantry outside Tobruk at the same time as 12 PzIIIG's 6 Panthers and 6 Panzergrenadiers landed.
Malta has been under bombardment by my Mediterranean fleet since late 1940. No less than 16 S-boats, 4 Gneisnaus and 1 Bismarck with associated DD's and AA units. They are unable to destroy the fortress on that island despite redlining all units each turn. I won't attempt to amphibious attack with infantry on that fortress as it would only be suicide.

 

[Rocoteh]

Bob1475,

Rocoteh - Having spent a lot of time on CIV IV I have the following observations -

"1. I played most of the scenarios until the EARTH scenario. The map appears OK but it is huge. Accordingly around 1600 I hit the infamous virtual memory problem and could not continue. It was a very interesting game, I played as Germany at Noble level and had all of Scandanavia, most of European Russia France and the slavic areas. Rome had Italy and Spain and after a war Greece just had Athens. I had moved into the Americas which had numerous "barb" cities - very interesting and a lot of fun trying to decide to expand in Americas and worrying about having forces split. Then the vm problem. My suggestion is not to proceed with Global until a fix is found for huge maps."
Bob1475

I also prefer Earth maps, but I am disturbed by the fact that
you can not custom them. Thus you can not turn off tech-trade.

Yes CIV IV really work slow late in the game.
It will take many months until I start to invest time in a CIV IV
version of WW2-Global.

"2. I played the Greek world scenario as Rome and did win. This scenario includes some timing factor which starts to generate lots of barbarians as you get into the AD time period. In fact they were being generated right within my cultural boundaries and very close to cities. I immediately thought how you could use this to generate "resistance guerilla forces" in Serbia or to a lesser degree in France, even timed to specific years! I don't understand exactly the technology but it was very interesting!"
Bob1475

I agree. What you mention above really sounds good!

"3. I played the American Revolution scenario which was not as interesting other than the provision for some timed replensishment of British troops. Something to think about re dealing with American supplies to Russia or even air force to Great Britain! Advantage over the wonders concept is that you can determine timing."
Bob1475

This also sounds very good.

"4. As earlier stated Desert War is in our time period and many of the units will no doubt be used. I played this early on and did not finish, I will go back again."
Bob1475

I plan to play this scenario also and compare it with the one made
for CIV III by Luddi VII. Should be very interesting to compare.

"5. The graphics are interesting, the diplomacy not quite as interesting as the AI is not open to much trading (or just smarter?). Espionage has been toned down. I was frustrated at the beginning in taking enemy cities and not knowing if there was a wonder in the city - no CIV 3 pop-up message so I never razed (which is a game option now!). I thought the only solution was spies until it hit me that you actually can see the wonders without going into the city!"
Bob1475

I wish that Firaxis made one more patch for Conquests where there
was an option to stop city-razing!

"6. Graphics are annoying at the beginning and a lot of fun later. However, the drag on your system is dramatic. I have eliminated the multiple units (3) and gone back to one with a health bar which requires fewer pixels. Also working at medium graphics and I don't really miss anything. If you are looking for a large scenario then something has to give on graphics and you may have to freeze the rivers from flowing, etc."
Bob1475

It will be intersesting to see what Firaxis will do to solve these problems.

"Biggest issue right now is understanding Python and the system which I will be looking into shortly.

Looking forward to lots of CIV 4 scenarios from you in the future!"
Bob1475

Thank you.
Yes its my intention to make scenarios for CIV IV also, since its
a strong game-system.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Bob1475,

that's interesting info. thanks for posting it.

it appears than any global-type scenario for civ4 is unlikely until they hash out the vm stuff. it's a shame, too, as this will have a huge impact on civ4 c&c/scenario creation.

El Justo,

Agree.

One just have to look at the incredible interest for modded versions
of CIV IV. Completed Modpacks CIV III have about 500 replies so far
this month.
Completed Modpacks CIV IV have more than 1 700 replies!
Then one should have in mind that the modpacks for CIV IV only
have marginal changes compared with those for CIV III.

Just think what impact an editor (included in the game) for CIV IV
would have had for the number and quality of CIV IV modpacks
and scenarios!

Rocoteh