WW2-Global

[Sasebo]

oljb007: Aren't there a lot of turns in the scenario though? As long as it is possible to get it, it should be fine in the later years. Also, German reseearch is highly dependant on success in battle to some degree, yes? If you are doing well and conquering lots of cites you will eventually cut that research time. I think it makes sense in that unless Germany does really well in Europe/Africa they won't have the resources to really get the big bomber program off the ground.

Rocoteh: D'OH! the neutral Thailand is obviously the better way to go, much simpler and better then what I proposed. It wil be very interesting to see how Japan handles a neutral Thailand if they clear southern China up to that point. If it focuses their attention on French Indochina instead that is probably a good thing.

I disagree with you on a human player taking on Italy as France; I know I would! I doubt I would overcommit or leave my troops exposed like the French AI probably does though.

DISASTER! I was trying to start a new,regular Conquests games and noticed the pedia was all out of whack in the descrpition screens for the UUs for example. I started the game, and as soon as I tried to look at a unit in the pedia the game crashed. I fixed that by repairing the Conquests files + 1.22 patch, but now all my save games from modded scenarios won't load! Is there any way I can fix this? I still have my saves for my Germany game, but it won't load now. Would reinstalling the .biq for the version I was playing fix this, or would I just make things worse? Please help!

 

[oljb007]

oljb007: Aren't there a lot of turns in the scenario though? As long as it is possible to get it, it should be fine in the later years. Also, German reseearch is highly dependant on success in battle to some degree, yes? If you are doing well and conquering lots of cites you will eventually cut that research time. I think it makes sense in that unless Germany does really well in Europe/Africa they won't have the resources to really get the big bomber program off the ground.

My first couple of techs were at a reate of 37-40 turns and that is going "balls out" for tech. just to elaborate on that, my first turn is switching "every" and i mean every city to infastructure. with that move my goal is to bump up production and gold income.

In regards to what you stated about success in battle I took Poland in two turns and wiped france off the continent by (trying to remember) week 4-6 1940. So, I had a pretty large empire at my disposal with major infastructure upgrades.

After only researching 2-3 techs you are fast approaching 1943 and still haven't even begun some of the 42' techs.

the huge map had such a huge research handicap for germany I recall other users mentioning it as well. In all honesty if you dump a long range heavy bomber as a late 44 or early 45 tech in the scenario at its current research reate you would probably get it around '50.

Look at it this way. I went huge on infastructure and was able to get as i recall my rate down to 26 turns, thats only two techs a year. yet there is navy, air and ground techs to research.

Its been at least a month since I played, I will try to load it up again and check my rate on my latest game to confirm.

 

[IarnGreiper]

I have to second the slow tech remark. Despite heavy efforts in infrastructure I never happened to keep up with tech in terms of year numbers.

 

[Sasebo]

Well that sounds bad, but I was thinking more in terms of taking out Scandanavia, maybe England or Spain and some African cities or fair amounts of USSR-- won't that help your research enough if you do well in Russia? If you are talking about the highest difficulty levels I wonder how it plays out at say Emperor. I'm not sure what difficulty level Rocoteh intends that larger map to be played on.

I'd think heavy bombers would take a back seat to other research unless Germany is doing well on at least the ground in Russia.

 

[Rocoteh]

On the huge map at the toughest level, Diety I believe the research for the germans is unbelievably slow. I recall this being brought up at one point early in the thread. I built heavy research infastructure and was still in the 20+ weeks for techs.
:S

oljb007,

OK I see.
I am looking forward to more feedback on this subject before I start
to make changes.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

oljb007: Aren't there a lot of turns in the scenario though? As long as it is possible to get it, it should be fine in the later years. Also, German reseearch is highly dependant on success in battle to some degree, yes? If you are doing well and conquering lots of cites you will eventually cut that research time. I think it makes sense in that unless Germany does really well in Europe/Africa they won't have the resources to really get the big bomber program off the ground.

Rocoteh: D'OH! the neutral Thailand is obviously the better way to go, much simpler and better then what I proposed. It wil be very interesting to see how Japan handles a neutral Thailand if they clear southern China up to that point. If it focuses their attention on French Indochina instead that is probably a good thing.

I disagree with you on a human player taking on Italy as France; I know I would! I doubt I would overcommit or leave my troops exposed like the French AI probably does though.

DISASTER! I was trying to start a new,regular Conquests games and noticed the pedia was all out of whack in the descrpition screens for the UUs for example. I started the game, and as soon as I tried to look at a unit in the pedia the game crashed. I fixed that by repairing the Conquests files + 1.22 patch, but now all my save games from modded scenarios won't load! Is there any way I can fix this? I still have my saves for my Germany game, but it won't load now. Would reinstalling the .biq for the version I was playing fix this, or would I just make things worse? Please help!

Sasebo,

Yes Thailand will be neutral in version 2.1.

On France attacking Italy:
That is interesting. Notes have been taken.

On game crashing:
I wish I could help you with this problem. However I have no answer
on what to do.
Does anyone else have ideas?

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I have to second the slow tech remark. Despite heavy efforts in infrastructure I never happened to keep up with tech in terms of year numbers.

IarnGreiper,

Opinion seems to be split.
I will wait for more feedback before I implement changes.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Well that sounds bad, but I was thinking more in terms of taking out Scandanavia, maybe England or Spain and some African cities or fair amounts of USSR-- won't that help your research enough if you do well in Russia? If you are talking about the highest difficulty levels I wonder how it plays out at say Emperor. I'm not sure what difficulty level Rocoteh intends that larger map to be played on.

I'd think heavy bombers would take a back seat to other research unless Germany is doing well on at least the ground in Russia.

Sasebo,

I assume that the vast majority of players prefer emperor level.
If it was possible I would make a poll.

Rocoteh

 

[oljb007]

IarnGreiper,

Opinion seems to be split.
I will wait for more feedback before I implement changes.

Rocoteh

just to clarify, I think he was agreeing with the idea that the techs are slow.

 

[oljb007]

oljb007,

OK I see.
I am looking forward to more feedback on this subject before I start
to make changes.

Rocoteh

very understandable, I would be curious to see if lower levels have the same issue. Maybe this is a "handicapping" at upper levels? but I dont recall this in the small map version and I played that extensively.

 

[oljb007]

rocoteh,

I think you might find this article of interest. Discusses history professors using civIII to teach.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/11/28/civ

 

[oljb007]

Well that sounds bad, but I was thinking more in terms of taking out Scandanavia, maybe England or Spain and some African cities or fair amounts of USSR-- won't that help your research enough if you do well in Russia? If you are talking about the highest difficulty levels I wonder how it plays out at say Emperor. I'm not sure what difficulty level Rocoteh intends that larger map to be played on.

I'd think heavy bombers would take a back seat to other research unless Germany is doing well on at least the ground in Russia.

If I recall, I believe I had planned on starting my war with Russia on week 26 1940 (same strat as other games) and I was on track for that with the game on the huge map.

bare with me I am goign to write this out as I think it out.

So, with that in mind, figure you could push russia back an average of .75 cities per turn as she only has the KV-1's and those little "rat tanks" as i call them. (they make that funny broken down rattle sound!) so by the start of
'41 you could theoritically have 20 Russian cities which would constitute maybe a 35-45% increase of german cities. By the end of say week 26 of '41 those cities would come online.

When I get a chance I'll play out some more turns and see what comes of taking Russian cities and what have it.

 

[riley555]

Russia is pretty easy....with lethal land bombardment on ac they're very easy. Just mass Panzers and HE-111's. Without lethal land bombardment produce about 80% panzers and the rest in HE-111's. With lethal land bombardment do the opposite...all you need is a gigantic airforce and a few ground units just to occupy cities.

I wanna say this is a good map, There's a few things I don't like but I can simply edit whatever I dislike. If it wasn't for the editor I might have to give this map 9/10!...but seriously 9.5/10. I know you must have spent alot of spare time making this map so that others could have some fun and it couldn't have been fun for you on every part of the creation process, especially bug-hunting. Thank you.

The two things I really didn't like are lethal land bombardment on ac, which I easily turned off and the limited diplomacy, which I was able to change so it's all good.

 

[Sasebo]

Rocoteh: Thanks; I can still play the game, just can't use my older saves. I took this opportunity to DL 2.0 and start a game with China instead. I set the AI to 'least aggressive' since I wanted to see what effect that would have, and my previous games as China have been bloody nightmares. Too soon for anything to report, except you might want to re-examine whether anti-aircraft batteries should be toned down/removed. I know someone else mentioned this before, and you looked at the flak situation, but that AA improvement is simply lethal. I disbanded 2 infantry and rush bought two of them, and built one on the first turn in Foochow, Wuhan, and Chungking. In two turns and approximately 28 sorties I've shot down 14 Japanese air units! no other flak in the cities either, just the newly bought batteries. They are even 1/3 the cost of a flak unit no less. At this rate I may actually be able to hold on to Wuhan/Foochow, which was unthinkable in my other games as China where I didn't build the AA batteries. The AI is very good at using it's air units, leaving the batteries in can cripple one of their few strengths. I just think you might want to take another look at them is all. Standard flak does not seem to be an issue really, they will take losses but not unreasonable ones.

 

[oljb007]

Rocoteh: Thanks; I can still play the game, just can't use my older saves. I took this opportunity to DL 2.0 and start a game with China instead. I set the AI to 'least aggressive' since I wanted to see what effect that would have, and my previous games as China have been bloody nightmares. Too soon for anything to report, except you might want to re-examine whether anti-aircraft batteries should be toned down/removed. I know someone else mentioned this before, and you looked at the flak situation, but that AA improvement is simply lethal. I disbanded 2 infantry and rush bought two of them, and built one on the first turn in Foochow, Wuhan, and Chungking. In two turns and approximately 28 sorties I've shot down 14 Japanese air units! no other flak in the cities either, just the newly bought batteries. They are even 1/3 the cost of a flak unit no less. At this rate I may actually be able to hold on to Wuhan/Foochow, which was unthinkable in my other games as China where I didn't build the AA batteries. The AI is very good at using it's air units, leaving the batteries in can cripple one of their few strengths. I just think you might want to take another look at them is all. Standard flak does not seem to be an issue really, they will take losses but not unreasonable ones.

I agree, in my games as germany I dont build the AA battery cause it causes britain to stop bombing. I am suprised that Japan continued to bomb your cities with those AA's in them.

 

[Baldurslayer]

Aloha,

I missed the discussion on heavy German bombers ... so much for my timing ...

If I got you guys correctly you are favouring the Me 264 with late research levels... I just would like to give another option since we are talking about 1944 etc., why not take a design of that time too (no uber-unit aka secret weapons style).

What about the Ju 488 - it is a simple 4 engine bomber made out of components of the Ju 88 family. With the Ju 88 and the Ju 188 already in the game why not take the concept of synergies and standardisation one step further and include the Ju 488?

Quote from: www.luft46.com

The Junkers Ju 488 was Germany's last real attempt to create a four-engined, long range bomber. In early 1944, Junkers design department at Dessau made a proposal to simply and quickly produce a heavy bomber, using a minimum of new building jigs or parts. Basically, the Ju 488 was to be constructed out of existing Junkers aircraft. The Ju 388K was to supply the pressurized crew cabin, the Ju 188E supplied the rear fuselage, the ventral pannier was to come from the Ju 88A-15 and Ju 388K series, outer wing sections from the Ju 388K and finally the entire twin fin tail section from the Ju 288C. Added to this collection was a new center fuselage section and a parallel wing center section, to carry the four engines.​

Drushba

 

[Rocoteh]

oljb007,

"just to clarify, I think he was agreeing with the idea that the techs are slow."
oljb007

Yes I am aware of that. However my impression is that its not
consensus on this issue.


"rocoteh,

I think you might find this article of interest. Discusses history professors using civIII to teach.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/11/28/civ"
oljb007


Thank you. I will check it.

"very understandable, I would be curious to see if lower levels have the same issue. Maybe this is a "handicapping" at upper levels? but I dont recall this in the small map version and I played that extensively"
oljb007


It seems like AI research extremely fast at high levels.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Russia is pretty easy....with lethal land bombardment on ac they're very easy. Just mass Panzers and HE-111's. Without lethal land bombardment produce about 80% panzers and the rest in HE-111's. With lethal land bombardment do the opposite...all you need is a gigantic airforce and a few ground units just to occupy cities.

I wanna say this is a good map, There's a few things I don't like but I can simply edit whatever I dislike. If it wasn't for the editor I might have to give this map 9/10!...but seriously 9.5/10. I know you must have spent alot of spare time making this map so that others could have some fun and it couldn't have been fun for you on every part of the creation process, especially bug-hunting. Thank you.

The two things I really didn't like are lethal land bombardment on ac, which I easily turned off and the limited diplomacy, which I was able to change so it's all good.

riley555,

Thank you.

I think the Russian Campaign will be much harder on the huge map.

With regard to lethal land bombardment for air-units its possible I will
remove it in version 2.1 since it make these units very powerful.

I welcome feedback on the subject.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh: Thanks; I can still play the game, just can't use my older saves. I took this opportunity to DL 2.0 and start a game with China instead. I set the AI to 'least aggressive' since I wanted to see what effect that would have, and my previous games as China have been bloody nightmares. Too soon for anything to report, except you might want to re-examine whether anti-aircraft batteries should be toned down/removed. I know someone else mentioned this before, and you looked at the flak situation, but that AA improvement is simply lethal. I disbanded 2 infantry and rush bought two of them, and built one on the first turn in Foochow, Wuhan, and Chungking. In two turns and approximately 28 sorties I've shot down 14 Japanese air units! no other flak in the cities either, just the newly bought batteries. They are even 1/3 the cost of a flak unit no less. At this rate I may actually be able to hold on to Wuhan/Foochow, which was unthinkable in my other games as China where I didn't build the AA batteries. The AI is very good at using it's air units, leaving the batteries in can cripple one of their few strengths. I just think you might want to take another look at them is all. Standard flak does not seem to be an issue really, they will take losses but not unreasonable ones.

Sasebo,

I will look over the AA problem.

The losses you mention sounds far to high!
One way to go is to increase cost for AA heavily. Another solution
is to remove them.

I will think about it.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I agree, in my games as germany I dont build the AA battery cause it causes britain to stop bombing. I am suprised that Japan continued to bomb your cities with those AA's in them.

oljb007,

OK, its possible I will remove them.

Rocoteh