xUPT

[Valkrionn]

how much does it affect the time to calculate turns? that is always my greatest concern.

From what I've read of reports in it's thread, it doesn't slow down or speed up processing noticeably. So it's a null effect.

I wouldn't really mind if it slowed things down though; Again, optional. Turn it off if it's too slow for you.


If implemented, I'll make a little interface icon displaying the current limit; Click it, and a popup fires allowing you to change it. No need to memorize a keycombo.

 

[Vavdichal]

A resounding yes. I like it in RoM: AND and would love it here as well.

 

[Valkrionn]

I've actually yet to try it. Will definitely be doing so before I make the final decision.

But holy crap. 19/1/1/1? I was not expecting it to be so heavily in favor of it.

 

[inuyashasama]

I love it.

 

[JEiK66]

Hello everybody. I have lurked for a while, and I am finally posting.

I like the idea but the more I think about it the more I think it won't work.
First the Erebus and Erebus continent maps have many passes and isthmuses which both prevent surrounds and limit the amount of tiles that can attack a stack.

Second heroes and other strong units could make an indestructible stack. If sixty angels can't destroy a level twenty-five beast of argnes how will they fare when they can only fit a fraction of that in a stack?

Third in rife 1unit=/=1 unit. A unit that can summon is really two units. A strong water elemental is effectively seven water elementals (1 strong, 2 normal, and 4 weak). This gets even crazier when you take things like twincast, the summoner trait, and puppet summons into account. I don't think that all of these things will in any way be able to be balanced.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hello everybody. I have lurked for a while, and I am finally posting.

I like the idea but the more I think about it the more I think it won't work.
First the Erebus and Erebus continent maps have many passes and isthmuses which both prevent surrounds and limit the amount of tiles that can attack a stack.

Second heroes and other strong units could make an indestructible stack. If sixty angels can't destroy a level twenty-five beast of argnes how will they fare when they can only fit a fraction of that in a stack?

Third in rife 1unit=/=1 unit. A unit that can summon is really two units. A strong water elemental is effectively seven water elementals (1 strong, 2 normal, and 4 weak). This gets even crazier when you take things like twincast, the summoner trait, and puppet summons into account. I don't think that all of these things will in any way be able to be balanced.

Yes, choke points will be very good strategic places... But that's something you have to get used to for Civ5 anyway. And a good change IMO.

The point about heroes is rather valid. That's one of the reasons I'd merge his other mod, so surrounding a unit allows you to do more damage. Get +% damage for every plot adjacent to the enemy that is occupied by your forces. The AI will be getting the benefit too, seeing as they'll be forced to split their stacks.

Summons will likely be exempt to the limit, as will certain other units (Civilians, for one).

So it won't be perfectly balanced, and I won't do balancing with it in mind... But it WILL be fun, create more realistic wars, and be challenging.

 

[Sonereal]

-Deleted-

 

[Cyrusfan]

I'm apparently only the 2nd no vote, but I'll probably play with it on just to stay on the same page as everyone else (whenever the next version is released, of course). My concerns are with the reasons one would normally have a big stack of units. For example, I typically build one of each of the free XP buildings and then pile everything I'm not using (ie when I'm not at war) of the given type into the appropriate city. This change really neuters those buildings, and even when I have multiples of them built, I'm going to have to hunt around a bunch of cities to activate my army. I should note that as a consequence, the Organized civic (build the GC structure anywhere) becomes more appealing.

Regarding GCs, I'm concerned that the units per tile limit may well nerf them, at least until they can get a promotion extending their range of effect.

Finally, I kind of think summons should count against the limit, if employed, as it seems to me it will become to difficult otherwise to overwhelm a stack that can generate cannon fodder every turn.

 

[Valkrionn]

-Deleted-

I'm apparently only the 2nd no vote, but I'll probably play with it on just to stay on the same page as everyone else (whenever the next version is released, of course). My concerns are with the reasons one would normally have a big stack of units. For example, I typically build one of each of the free XP buildings and then pile everything I'm not using (ie when I'm not at war) of the given type into the appropriate city. This change really neuters those buildings, and even when I have multiples of them built, I'm going to have to hunt around a bunch of cities to activate my army. I should note that as a consequence, the Organized civic (build the GC structure anywhere) becomes more appealing.

Regarding GCs, I'm concerned that the units per tile limit may well nerf them, at least until they can get a promotion extending their range of effect.

Finally, I kind of think summons should count against the limit, if employed, as it seems to me it will become to difficult otherwise to overwhelm a stack that can generate cannon fodder every turn.

As an optional feature, if you don't want to use it don't use it. No need just because others are.. hell, I probably wouldn't use it in all my games.

The need to gather forces from all cities is something I'm okay with.

As for GC's and Summons... I'll probably have Minions/Permanent Summons count as half/ rounded up. So you can fit two minions into the same slot, but having just one minion doesn't get you a free unit in the stack.

Temporary summons would NOT count towards the limit; They're temporary, so I see no reason to force that.

 

[JEiK66]

I look forward to trying it. I like the permanent summon solution and if necessary the opposite could be done for excessively powerful units. Will this be thrown into the next patch or in some latter one.

Forgot to say this before. Thank you Valkrionn, O great Hamster King, and everyone else that made rife.

 

[Valkrionn]

I look forward to trying it. I like the permanent summon solution and if necessary the opposite could be done for excessively powerful units. Will this be thrown into the next patch or in some latter one.

Forgot to say this before. Thank you Valkrionn, O great Hamster King, and everyone else that made rife.

Maybe the next patch; Depends. The interface work for it would have to be done by us, but on the whole it's supposed to be simple to merge. All in one function, in one file.

 

[UNIT 666]

It sounds like a good mechanic to me.

I wouldn't worry that much about a maxstack of heroes or anything like that. The RNG will take care of them sooner or later.

AoE spells that damage allies might be a bit more bothersome now, though.

 

[Willgar]

A fantastic idea! Hope the AI can deal with not having it stacks of doom any more....

 

[esvath]

I choose absolute yes, no pie at all

Since it's optional, and since you also merge surround, and since I got bored hacking 100+ Axeman, then why not merging this wonderful xUPT? If I don't like it, I can disable it. Perfect compromise for me

Valk, what file is needed in merging this? I still hope it's python so I can merge it in my modmod

 

[Calavente]

Cool.
I hate having 60+ guys moving arround.
+ it would allow you to put emphasis on commando promotion, blitz, the enhance promotion for arcan units (+1movement for summons), archeryII promotion, and mounted units... to improve the number of attacks per turn to more than 1 per unit on the nearest stack, so that units 1 tile away can still attack..

just, I think spells should be reworked a bit : now you put all your units on the same stack before launching the spell (buffs or area damage).
now you'll need 1 arcane unit per stack per buff instead of 1 per buff (+ 1 medic +1defense +eventually 1"guardmsan"..etc).
+the aoe spells will kill many units of your stack : maybe enhance the resistance to attacking spells coming from friendlies ? (so it might damage you but might not)

Maybe medic promotions and buff spells could have an aoe? (it won't change much the game balance with the feature off, but with the feature xUPT on, it might be a game-saver).

EDIT : PLus I think a modifier based on the civ (multiplier or additional to city/fort...etc) should be implemented. I mean : at least for the CLAN. Maybe also for others, but that would require a lot of balance (ex: reduced for Jotnar). but I think it is vital for the Clan.

 

[arcticnightwolf]

It's bad poll - you can't ensure the poll to be objective when you put "cake" or "pie" option in - it's IMBA
anyway ... i'm for it - it may be interesting new experience

@Calavente:
I'm glad to see another LFGComic.com fan

 

[Calavente]

articnightwolf : Valkrionn is another .

Valkrionn : I said on another thread that I was happy with having few updates of RifE ... that was a lie ...
If you install xUPT in RifE, upload it quickly ... even you don't add all those marvelous civs and balance you are promising !
I wanna try it.
pretty please ?
with a cherry on top ?

 

[arcticnightwolf]

Chief Warlock of the Brothers of Darkness, Lord of the 13 Hells, Master of the Bones, Emperor of the Dark, Lord of the Undead, and Mayor of a little village on the coast.

Sorry for spam, but I can't resist - you forget to add "Mistress of Magma"
(( http://lfgcomic.com/page/276 ))

 

[Calavente]

It's not really in it's "introduction speech" so I forgot it.
And true enough, he actually emphasis that's it's a new title....
(by the way I Loooove this chapter on the magma ... especially "science is hard")
what to do...? humm ?
ok, I'll update the signature

to be on the threads' subject :

It would be interesting to have some units (GC or some civ heroes +GC not counting as a unit for unit place) allow to have more units on a tile, ex : corindale that does almost nothing or Magnadine as he is supposed to be a fearsome war leader, or maybe the organized trait : +20% units as you are more organised ?
Maybe having decimals count as a whole unit ?
(ex : organised leader (+20%), on citadel (+20%), with a GC : +10%, 3UPT = 3+50% = 4,5 => 5 units on the tile instead of basic 3.
city (+100%) +GC (10%) = 6.3 units => 7 units on tile

might be also fun to have some units being counted as less than 1 unit (hawks, goblins...) and some as more than one unit (trolls, giants, ogres...) (that would be an other way to balance the Clan or Jotnar instead of adding a civ modifier) ex : 4UPT, giant = 1,5 unit : you can have 3 giant on a tile (3*1.5 = 4,5, but it there are 2 giants = 3 units, the code will allow a new giant to enter the tile as UPT is not reached).

 

[Brokenbone]

I'm interested in seeing this as an option, I think I've posted in 3 UPT threads re: FFH and modmods at this point, ha ha.

I'd assume the first crack at it would be porting over the basic, as is system from ROM:AND... see how it plays, then start fussing with twenty different twists like whether forts or cities increase stack size, whether some heroes could boost a stack, whether some civs like the Clan could have bigger stacks, how exactly summons count or don't count towards certain limits, etc.

Again, get the vanilla way of doing it right, then get fancy.

Funny thing is, since it's all optional, and even when it's on, you could set a limit pretty high if that was your gameplay preference, users messing with what they feel works for them is all good, and a way to work around any of what feels like "wrong" gameplay to them (i.e., if they were mad that a hunter and hawk counted as 2 units, no one will stop them from increasing their max stack size in SP, unless and until someone did a mod to this, whether it was Valk or just an optional module for RIFE).