Yet Another Immortal SE Walkthrough

The round begins by switching Civics:

1585_civics.JPG


The switch to State Property was an easy decision to lower civic costs, reduce maintenance and provide a food bonus for workshops and Watermills. Nationhood was used to draft military along with Slavery to whip buildings, troops and unhappy citizens. Organized Religion was probably a mistake as it was very expensive but it was used to hurry along factories and needed builds in many cities. After 5 turns I switched back to Free Religion and Bureaucracy (should have stayed in Nationhood).

Railroad and Combustion were researched followed by Physics -> Electricity -> Industrialism. I was unable to trade techs at this point in the game as Huayna was the only Civ as advanced and wouldn't trade his monopoly techs.

Churchill made the mistake of building an annoying city then proceding to culture bomb:

1610.JPG


At first I thought the culture of York was to blame until I realized the 60% defence in Hastings. Winston was obviously trying to steal the spoils of war from my heroic troops which he had locked in Ulundi. The insulant act was obviously a pretense to war with the British. The mighty Egyptions made quick work of the tiny empire:

1635.JPG


York falls followed by London:

1675.JPG


His protective Redcoats put up a fight but in the end the collateral damage was to much for them. Nottingham falls with the help of freshly drafted Infantry reinforcing the fight:

1715.JPG


I initially thought that the cities would easily incorporate into my Economy but I soon discoverd the Englishman's crutch. It was not possible to Irrigate a single tile in any of Winston's cities. I'm suprised I didn't notice earlier but there was a semi circle of hills and peaks blocking any possible source of fresh water. These cities continued to work the developed cottages as farming without irrigation would be counterproductive at this point in the game.

Even with the new cities the Empire is nowhere near the required land or population necessary for a Domination Victory. Huayna Capac vassalizes Ragnar and vows to protect the Viking Empire. The Egyption people release all hopes of world domination and become consumed with a desire to reach Alpha Centauri.

Known technologies are sold for gold and Trade Missions are made by Great Merchants to speed the research towards the needed technologies:

1705.JPG


Coal plants were built in two high production cities but they were making the citizens sick. By building the Three Gorges Dam all cities could recieve power with no unhealthiness of pollution. This would mean a difference of one scientist in most cities:

1730.JPG


Thebes began the wonder as soon as the required tech (Plastics) was known but foreign intelligence indicated that Huyna was scheduled to finish a turn before us:

1730-2.JPG


The wonder was important to the people and our spies were ordered to sabotage his cities improvements:

1730-3.JPG


They were able to slow his production enough for Thebes to complete the Dam:

1770.JPG


After Plastics, research was conducted in the following order:

Artillery -> Rocketry (Apollo Program, 5 SS Casings) -> Radio -> Computers (Academy +25% science, +50% Spaceship production) -> Robotics (SS Docking Bay) -> Fission

Huayna completes the United Nations and I am elected Secretary General. I decided to put a Diplomatic Victory to the test:

1808.JPG


Wow, that was a lot closer than I had expected it to be. I guess I didn't actually expect to get Kublai's vote. Makes me wonder what could have happened had I beelined Mass Media after completing Biology in 1230ad.

Research continues:

Fiber Optics (SS cockpit) -> Fusion (Great Engineer, SS Engine) -> Satellites (3 SS Thrusters)

Great Merchant and Great Engineer from Fusion:

1824.JPG


The two Great People start my first Golden Age in order to hurry production of Spaceship parts and to further increase the tech pace.

Research order:

Refrigeration -> Genetics (SS Stasis Chamber) -> Ecology (SS Life Support)

Launch in 1856:

1856.JPG


Score:

1856-2.JPG



Afterthoughts and Statistics to be included in the next post...

The Save:
 

Attachments

great game. Seeing the result of the election one wonder if a backdoor election would be possible.
 
CivSetä;5422378 said:
Great game! Next one on deity? :lol:

Thank You, this game went well and I was happy to win. :banana:

Deity is Just Scary!


great game. Seeing the result of the election one wonder if a backdoor election would be possible.

one shouldn't wonder
A few spies killing off chain irrigation while putting and working farms all over the place would certainly do the trick.

Yes, even though everything was already farmed I could have changed Mines to Windmills, adopted Environmentalism and worked all of my cities tiles for growth. Also, I had 3 spies in Huayna's land long before the UN was completed. Wouldn't take too much Sabatoge as I only lost the initial vote by 29 Pop.

I will include afterthoughts this evening.
 
Nice victory. Well played indeed. Especially good was the way you beat Huayna to the Three Gorges Dam by sabotaging his effort :) Here are a few observations on the savegame.

You don't seem to like building courthouses ;) Too late to build them now but they soon pay back the 120 hammers invested in them even if you run State Property. That would have saved 3.5 gold in every city every turn and a lot more before State Property cut the distance factor. Saving gold is equivalent to doing more research in the long run.

You are building wealth in some cities and research in others. Generally you should either build one or the other for maximum effect depending on the multipliers you have for gold and research weighted by the commerce. That is easy to test by dropping the research slider 10% and seeing if gold increases by more than research drops. If research makes the best use of commerce you should build wealth to allow the research slider to be run higher.

I don't understand why you didn't research Mass Media and build broadcast towers in key cities. You have all 3 of the bonusses for broadcast towers. That might allow you to reduce the culture slider which you're using for happiness. I always think of commerce lost on culture as a waste and for you each 10% culture is costing about 155 beakers at present. So even though you are a SE producing over 3000 beakers per turn commerce (mostly from trade routes) is still very valuable.

If you swapped to Nationhood and had built barracks in key cities you could probably avoid using the culture slider at all. Another way would be spreading religion using a period of Organised Religion could also give more happiness to key cities.


These are all optimisations that you can and did do without. I only mention them as an alternative way to do what you have already acheived.
 
Again, very good assessment of the game JJ, Thank You.

I do seem to neglect courthouses late in the game. I am usually quick to build the required 6 and the Forbidden Palace but often forget about the value of the courthouse in new cities.

I rarely build broadcast towers in any of my games. To be honest I don't even know what resources benefit from them, I always considered them for their cultural value only. I will look into them and surely incorporate them into future games if they mean +3 :) from what I gather from your post.

And yes, I did underestimate the benefits of Nationhood for most of this game. I seemed to overvalue Civil Service as Thebes was my primary production city but I should have switched out to Nationhood when I wasn't working an important Wonder/Build in the capital.

Thanks again for the tips and input :thumbsup:
 
That was awesome.
By far and away the best SE game I've ever followed.
Got another one planned?

Still thinking about it, It's amazing how much time it takes to create such a walkthrough. I really have to hand it to Aelf and Sistuil for the great series that they provide! :hatsoff: I will elaborate on the possibility in my afterthoughts to be posted tonight or probably tomorrow now.

Thanks for the Encouragement ;)
 
It's amazing how much time it takes to create such a walkthrough.

I also wanted to thank you for posting this. I've tried to prepare similar things and I always manage to screw it up by forgetting to take enough screenshots/notes.

It is nice to see once again an example of the power of a well run SE demonstrated on the forums.
 
A look at the Graphs:

GNP:

GNP_final.JPG


My final GNP rivals only Shaka who has two poor cities remaining. The commerce that I am receiving is primarily from large trade routes (as high as 55 :commerce: in some cities) as I farmed over cottages in conquered cities (except for Winston's where Irrigation was not available). It is clear to see where I entered into Free Markets, and yes It did boost both Huayna and Kublai as well. I am still convinced that Trade Routes play an important role in my Specialist Economy games.

MFG Goods:

mfg_final.JPG


I controlled a Manufacturing Powerhouse throughout this entire game. At any given time I could instantly switch from Research (through hiring scientists) to Production (by firing scientists and working mines) to skyrocket my manufacturing. With Police State, Nationhood, Slavery and Theocracy I could quickly raise a modern army. With Bureaucracy, Slavery and Organized Religion I could quickly build needed infrastructure. It is easy to see by the instant jumps in MFG Goods where I entered and exited such rounds of production. My only Golden Age was in 1824.

Power:

power_final.JPG


Not much to say here. I kept only as much military as I needed at any point in the game. I was the strongest on my Continent which was all that I needed. Huayna did become a Superpower but I think I could have defended my land against an intercontinental attack.

The Endgame Cities Research:

cities_science.JPG


Not too bad, 2 cities with 400+ beakers per turn and 18 cities with 100+ beakers per turn.

Here is a look switched to Production:

cities_production.JPG


13 cities with the capability to produce 50+ hammers each turn! This is before modifiers from Heroic Epic, Military Academies and resource production bonuses. I could further increase the production output by matching civics to either military or infrastructure rounds of building as mentioned earlier.

A look at the Endgame Finances with the Science Slider at 80%:

Finances_correct.JPG


And another look with slider at 0%:

financial-2.JPG


Over 2300 :science: from specialists alone! Trade routes are providing a good deal of beakers at this point but the bulk is still provided by specialists.

I initially felt that I pretty much dominated for the majority of this game. Looking at the victory conditions status from the turn before Launch indicate the same:

victory_conditions.JPG


I am right with Huayna in both Score and Population. I am dominating in Land area and Culture is not a factor. Surprisingly, Kublai is ahead of Huayna on his spaceship but still nowhere near completion. Spies provide a closer look at Huayna and reveal that he is much closer than the victory screen reveals:

Huayna_SS.JPG


These are 3 pretty major parts that are nearing completion. It seems Huayna collected all the techs and is simultaneously building his parts. He has casings, thrusters and the other parts building across his cities. Here is a look at his Engine:

Huayna_Engine.JPG


Also notice that he is researching Future Tech 4 while I am only on FT 2. I would guess that he probably wasn't any more than 10 turns away from launching himself. I had a rather comfortable win as there were 3 spies ensuring that I would finish before him but he certainly wasn't far behind.


I credit my victory in this game to several key moves that I made throughout:

  • Building the Pyramids - The Pyramids allowed me to focus on the bottom of the tech tree in order to prioritize Gunpowder and Chemistry
  • Early Biology - By beelining Biology in 1230ad my SE recieved a substaintial boost. In a Specialist Economy :food: is Science, Production, and Power.
  • Diplomacy - With 3 aggresive civilizations surrounding my borders early diplomacy was critical. I was able to isolate Monty, Shaka and Chuchill into at worst 1 on 1 war when I didn't have an ally.
  • Trade and Trade Routes - I passed many techs early on to avoid WFYABTA and got good value for the techs that I did receive in trade. Late game Trade Routes provided a great boost towards Research.

I feel that there is still much room for improvement in my strategies and methods. I do hope to eventually get a win on Deity playing with these same map settings. I will certainly put the story to keyboard if the day ever comes.

Until then, Thanks for following and Happy Civing :thumbsup:
 
thanks for this. i'm not good at being an all-out warmonger so i've never even tried an official SE, i just pick and choose things i've learned about lightbulbing and such. i've read the guides of course but getting to see one like this, in different stages but kind of "executive summary" fashion, made some things click for me more than the much-longer Challenge threads and SGs i follow do, as much as i love them.

about your afterthoughts financial advisor shots: when comparing the science at 0% and at 80%, your civic upkeep isn't the same. i wondered if you can find/make a screenshot of that advisor showing only the slider changed but not the civics? obviously you were spiritual (one of my favorite traits) and so of course you'd change civics to best suit you're doing at the time. but i'm curious to see how things change overall if you keep city assignments/civics the same and just move the slider. it's just so different from how i do things that i really can't predict it at all.

reading thru this was interesting, and eye-opening, and :eek:. like, i can't imagine being comfortable with the culture slider up at 70% but obviously it works really really well for you! i've read about how in a real SE you put your excess gold into the culture slider as needed. this is that in action; how i'd make myself do it, i have no clue *giggle*.

that's wild about huayna building his stealth spaceship. i'll trade ya that for my gandhi last night. he launched on me last night one turn before i'd have won, i wish he'd done it that way. instead, i knew it was coming, and got to sit and wait. nothing i could do, i was going for cultural victory and had shut off research ages before that. i had no spies, no military, no nothing. he was the biggest military power on the planet and i couldn't think of any way to use the political alliances i had in place to knock him down in time. even the DP with him was no use. i figured i'd see that "gandhi has ..." on that next-to-last turn, and indeed i did. i couldn't even just press enter to wait and see, i was MMg to get my win as coordinated and early as i could, since that's the fun part :lol:.

at least i was comfortable with the culture slider at 100% there tho ;). i still can't get over 40% almost constantly in yours! as you said, there are ways you could improve that too, so even you learned from the thread. i've recently learned the joys of nationhood even when not planning for war any time soon, JJ is a wise uncle.

thank you for posting this :)
 
i tried a similar game myself immediately after this tread but i found myself fall into the trap of overkill and over expansion ,and no trading partners....shame:lol:
 
Gryman,
You mentioned four key moves that made this victory possible. I wonder now, how important was it to play Ramesses (Spiritual-Industrious) for this game to succeed?

Thx,
Jaca
 
Originally posted by KMadCandy

i wondered if you can find/make a screenshot of that advisor showing only the slider changed but not the civics?

i still can't get over 40% almost constantly in yours! as you said, there are ways you could improve that too, so even you learned from the thread. i've recently learned the joys of nationhood even when not planning for war any time soon, JJ is a wise uncle.

The screen shot has been corrected in the thread. This is from the turn before Launch and the cities have not been changed between shots. The extra :science: from the slider is a result of large trade routes due to the city sizes.

I always tried to run the :culture: slider as low as possible. My idea for an SE is to gain science mostly from specialists while using the :culture: slider to deal with unhappiness. I figure if 20% :culture: costs an average of 10 :commerce: (from trade routes) per city towards culture instead of science but allows +5 :) then I am able to run 5 extra Scientists at 6 :science: each. JJ is wise indead, after looking at Broadcast Towers they provide +1 :) per 10% :culture: allowing 7 :) per 20% slider rate along w/ bonuses for 3 other resources. I will certainly encorperate them into future games.

Initially posted by EEE_Boy

i tried a similar game myself immediately after this tread but i found myself fall into the trap of overkill and over expansion ,and no trading partners....shame

The Rennasaince Era can often feel like a strugle just to stay afloat! Trade can also be a major issue without constant Diplomatic work. Once you make it "click" though your economy will just explode after Biology.

Originally posted by Jaca

Gryman,
You mentioned four key moves that made this victory possible. I wonder now, how important was it to play Ramesses (Spiritual-Industrious) for this game to succeed?

Ramesses is indeed a very powerful leader for this style of play. The Pyramids were a critical role in the early beeline for Chemistry and Biology. The Industrious trait delivered the Mids, Great Library, Hanging Gardens, Statue of Liberty and certainly the Three Gorges Dam. Additionally, Heroic Epic, National Epic, Globe Theatre, Forbidden Palace and Oxford University also recieve the production bonus. Spiritual is also an incredible trait for this economy due to the massive Micro Management that can be used. Not to mention the domination that the War Chariot provides for an early rush.

Ghandi is right there with Ramesses providing faster GP early followed IMO by just about any Philosophical, Spiritual or Industrious Leader. As always there is no clear cut strategy for any situation but Financial is the only trait that I will really shy away from running an SE at least for the first half of the game.
 
Congrats - a good read. I could never do something like this, looks like it takes way to much micromanagement, i think ill keep to my prince games. Anyway, great stuff, enjoyed it.
 
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