Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
Examples of such leaders, please (at least three).
Your Drones are belong to us!
- Thread starter Glassfan
- Start date
Defiant47 said:
and...poof! There went your credibility.
Clearly Iran and, more specifically, Iranian engineers, can't be at all backwards if you think they're capable of constructing a nuclear weapon. The sort of engineering expertise and industrial base is pretty high level.
Iran is acting completely rationally - they look around and see that nations that have nuclear weapons don't get invaded. Nations that don't have them (see Iraq, Libya, perhaps Syria?) do get invaded. Israel and its proxy the USA are behaving in such a way as to *encourage* Iran to develop nuclear capability.
I don't know anything about these drones, but I'd be very surprised if Iran gives up the drone before it and China have a nice long look inside. Of course, much of the value is in the computer control systems, which they may already have accessed.
Defense news suspects evil Russians
http://defense-update.com/20111205_kvant-1l222-avtobaza-electronic-intelligence-elint-system.html
http://defense-update.com/20111205_kvant-1l222-avtobaza-electronic-intelligence-elint-system.html
Are these over zealous Muslim leaders encroaching the airspace of any sovereign nation with spy drones? Would it increase the instability in the region if they did?
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Please don't go! The drones need you. They look up to you.
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
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Pilots can be compromised, and air planes can be stolen:
(before there was Mozilla):
Spoiler :
I'd rather not enter a debate about Israel or the intricacies of the Middle East.
Because we can't risk them having nuclear weapons, and because it has a bit of support from our good friends "China".
Not it's not "never about oil", but there are other factors in play.
I actually do not believe that Iran could have gotten this far on its own, and even doubt that it may have actual uranium reserves within its land.
It isn't a stretch to presume that outside help is at hand here.
And even if it isn't, I'd rather not wait around until they finally figure it out.
We'll see how that "encouragement" works when it gets preemptively invaded. Israel has leaked enough to the world that it has plans already in place to bomb Iranian facilities if necessary. How about that for encouragement?
Skwink
FRIIIIIIIIIITZ
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dirtyparrot
Upholding Brannigan's Law
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I've this story to be fascinating to follow. Anyway, Iranian scientists claim that they managed to hijack the drone by spoofing its navigation system. A more detailed explanation is included in the link below:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45685870/ns/world_news-christian_science_monitor/#.TupmUpV5mSM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45685870/ns/world_news-christian_science_monitor/#.TupmUpV5mSM
Defiant47 said:
There isn't a nuclear program anywhere that was wholly native - every single one of them either had active support (US sharing expertise with UK) or passive (USSR espionage acquiring research conducted by US/UK). But knowledge is only one aspect. You also have to be able to manage the industrial systems required for the production chain. No tinpots can do this. Iran is not a backwards nation, otherwise your fears would be unfounded.
...speaking of your fears, what exactly are you afraid will happen if Iran produces a deliverable nuclear weapon?
Nukes Israel at the first chance it gets once the weapon is complete, causing a nuclear holocaust in the Middle East and risking a global thermonuclear war.
You have to understand that eradicating the infidels is a decree from God. Who are the Iranians to ignore a mandate of the Lord during their short lives here, when their eternal lives are at stake, and destroying a force of evil is at hand?
wapamingo
Prince
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Defiant47, i have been reading some of your discussions in various threads.
I understand what you are saying, and to some degree agree with you. But it does not leave me feeling good.
I am curious as to your opinion to on why N.Korea was left to develop nuclear weapons? Proximity to China?
S.Korea counter-balance? I imagine Pakistan-India balance is there so either one is left alone? If there were a credible regional counter to Iran, would we be talking about them?
I understand what you are saying, and to some degree agree with you. But it does not leave me feeling good.
I am curious as to your opinion to on why N.Korea was left to develop nuclear weapons? Proximity to China?
S.Korea counter-balance? I imagine Pakistan-India balance is there so either one is left alone? If there were a credible regional counter to Iran, would we be talking about them?
It doesn't leave me feeling good either. If you actually put me in charge and allowed me to invade all these bad places, even without the fear of political repercussions, I'd still want to recheck my decision about 500 times. Invading a country is a massive undertaking, both in reality and in ethics. I am espousing views that are somewhat hypothetical in nature, and have no doubt that they would get refined intensely if subject to better information.
Look at Obama, and how he was spouting off ideas of invading Pakistan during his campaign trail. Now that he's in office, it turns out that it's a lot more complicated than that.
Sure, we have a moral duty to help those in need, and to defend the well-being of the United States and its allies... but there are too many complexities that can get in the way.
A little bit of China, and a little bit of catching us off-guard. To date, I'm still not sure whether North Korea actually has nuclear weapons. I think the prevailing opinion is that we detected some massive seismic activity that could either be a nuclear explosion, or an elaborate bluff. At this point, I think the U.S. believes it too risky regardless.
There is a credible regional counter, it's Israel. What I'm worried about is that Iran may be willing to risk annihilation for the chance to strike at the Israelis, as has been the notion that's been spread throughout such leaders in that area. Maybe they're just showboating to display to their citizens that they are strong and that they mean business. But can we take the risk?
Skwink
FRIIIIIIIIIITZ
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Well, I guess we're gonna have to blow it all up now.
Yeah, actually a low-tech snatch. Use ECM to block control signals to the drone, so that it goes into auto pilot. Then send high-powered false GPS signals to the drone to cause it to land in the wrong place. A clever low tech trick.
It's good to know they haven't actually cracked the encription, and a software solution - causing the drone to RTB based on inertial navigation rather than GPS is feasable.
Some years ago DoD wanted to encode GPS for it's own military purposes but was prevented by Congress because GPS had become so usefull in the civilian world. This is an obvious consequence.
r16
not deity
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ahah , the Western superiority still lives on , right ? Though am parroting myself here , there was no hacking until Uncle Sam allowed Iran to have a thing to show . Which of course resulted in that second drone crashing in the Indian Ocean . The thing to shoot down this will be to suggest that Pentagon crashed one of its own to prove drones are machines that can break down in most inappropriate times .
iran , sure why not ... Mind you the "pieces" they collected draws foreign experts in , and there is this announcement that says scrap artillery shells have exploded to kill foreign nationals . Inevitably a time will come when sides will have to be chosen .
iran , sure why not ... Mind you the "pieces" they collected draws foreign experts in , and there is this announcement that says scrap artillery shells have exploded to kill foreign nationals . Inevitably a time will come when sides will have to be chosen .
r16
not deity
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have to watch myself when ı mention the Word of Allah , but the exact term is more like "Fight those who fight you and fight them in the name of God" . And who is me to suggest that God wellcomes eradication of people , including innocents like babies , kids , the insane , the lot , only because they belong to a culture that does not accept Allah . Allah is mighty to strike down those who don't believe and the religious sources have enough examples , including from the Kuran . Playing God on the hand is the foremost sin in Islam , sort of .
"Allah" means God. It's the same God as the Jews worship, and it's the same God as the Christians worship. Americans have only restricted your usage to "Allah" in order to segregate Muslims easily. "You don't worship God, you worship some weird mysterious Allah."
The word is meant to belittle and alienate your(?) religion. So I'm not using it - I'm using the real word - God.
When the imam claims this, and the people around you say this, and the ruling elite say this, it becomes hard to argue against what God really wants. If everyone around you is claiming that God has demanded the eradication of the "infidels", then you're not going to get anywhere trying to refute it - you'll just get branded a heretic, a blasphemer.
In our world, God's voice is the voice of priests and rulers, and they use it, often falsely, to their own benefits and goals. The issue becomes when people actually believe it.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
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I think it is pretty obvious that Iran got at least 40% of their nuke technology from Russia or China. As good as the Iranian engineers may be, constructing nuclear weapons isn't easy to do and given the state of their economy, they needed initial technology help.
