Kruelgor
Emperor
Due to corporate propaganda, you have been purposely misled to believe Folate is the same as Folic Acid. Folate is natural, but Folic Acid is synthetic and is not 100% identical to Folate.
Your Last Warning - Consume Folic Acid at your own risk.
- Thread starter Kruelgor
- Start date
Due to corporate propaganda, you have been purposely misled to believe Folate is the same as Folic Acid. Folate is natural, but Folic Acid is synthetic and is not 100% identical to Folate.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Um, I posted a picture of a potato. I'm not sure what folate has to do with anything.
Leonel
Breakfast Connoisseur
Where'd you hear this?
MrCynical
Deity
Kruelgor said:
Please post the chemical structures are "folate" and "folic acid". By chemical naming conventions these are the same substance. If you are genuinely talking about a substance distinct from folic acid you should have no difficulty presenting the structures and showing the difference.
"Synthetic" vs "Natural" is meaningless when it comes to molecules. A molecule of vitamin C produced in a lab or a factory is totally indistinguishable from a molecule from an orange, by definition.
Miles Teg
Nuclear Powered Mentat
The kind of people who even half-seriously suggest that are the kind of people who have first hand experience with the mental effects of lead poisoning.
Kruelgor
Emperor
Here is the other part of the equation. The doctors, hospitals, fitness dieticians, vitamin manufacturers, and food corporations could all be sued for their role and involvement with people consuming folic acid, and they are fully aware of it. Therefore, they are avoiding the topic or playing it off. They all witnessed what happened with the tobacco companies as they were sued for mega millions.
Once this Folic Acid and synthetic vitamin thing catches on with the lawyers they will have a hey day. The amount of money at stake dwarfs the amount with the tobacco class action lawsuits. It will be in the hundreds of billions of dollars.
Once this Folic Acid and synthetic vitamin thing catches on with the lawyers they will have a hey day. The amount of money at stake dwarfs the amount with the tobacco class action lawsuits. It will be in the hundreds of billions of dollars.
Terxpahseyton
Nobody
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 10,759
Only in theory. I have read and heard on many accounts that the artificial versions of vitamins never live up to the natural source and in deed can rather be harmful than helpful. I have no trouble imagining it is the same with folic acid. I am not any good in chemistry, but isn't a theoretical formula one thing, but the actual substance a whole nother? Some kind of impurity always is present.
Further on one needs to keep in mind the complexity behind the consumption of nutrients through food. To say "body gets vitamin C --> vitamin C result in x" is so way much too simplified. Nutrients interact not only with the body, they interact with each other and the body, while how the body interacts with nutrient A can be influenced by of how much nutrient B is available and so on. Saying: In what company we consume nutrients matters. And while an orange provides a company our body is designed to handle - a lab doesn't.
Because of this I also think that the real danger of modern food are not so much single substances - for which we have at least a system in place - but the combination of those. Because this is researched like not at all. But prone to cause any number of health issues.
I love it how you like to ignore criticism (not always, but mostly) and just continue in spinning your conspiracy theories
Rashiminos
Fool Prophet
I think he was going for the population poisoning angle.
MrCynical
Deity
SiLL said:
A vitamin (e.g. vitamin C) is simply a molecule with a specific structure. Whether that's made in a lab, a living organism, or by other natural processes it is exactly the same thing. That's not just theoretical - if the synthetic vitamin C had a different structure from the natural it would by definition not be vitamin C.
Now it's true that you can have other molecules in there with the vitamins, but if that's also true with vitamins from natural sources. Synthetics are actually be held to a far higher standard of purity.
Rashiminos
Fool Prophet
classical_hero
In whom I trust
When I put Folate into wiki, it redirected me to Folic acid. Interesting.
MrCynical
Deity
Rashiminos said:
Good try, but no. I am aware what chirality is. You of course should know Vitamin C is L-ascorbic acid, and it's this enantiomer that's produced synthetically as well.
Lord of Elves
Suede-Denim Secret Police
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2009
- Messages
- 6,976
Kruelgor
Emperor
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/folate/
Folate is a water-soluble B vitamin that occurs naturally in food. Folic acid is the synthetic form of folate that is found in supplements and added to fortified foods.
Lord of Elves
Suede-Denim Secret Police
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2009
- Messages
- 6,976
I genuinely am interested in knowing what was objectionable about the issues listed in the post.
@leonel, pretty generally this kind of stuff seems to come from such reputable sources as "The Drudge Report".
MrCynical
Deity
Kruelgor said:
Again - structures? What is the chemical difference between the molecules from different sources?
The chemical naming convention is X-ate being the conjugate base of X-acid. It's got nothing to do with whether a molecule was produced synthetically or naturally.
Kruelgor
Emperor
It's interesting because Folate (the natural version) plays a big role in DNA synthesis and dividing cells. It completely makes sense that once you start messing with that in an artificial and synthetic form then you could severely mess something up - CANCER!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folic_acid
Biochemistry of DNA base and amino acid production Metabolism of folic acid to produce methyl-vitamin B12In the form of a series of tetrahydrofolate (THF) compounds, folate derivatives are substrates in a number of single-carbon-transfer reactions, and also are involved in the synthesis of dTMP (2′-deoxythymidine-5′-phosphate) from dUMP (2′-deoxyuridine-5′-phosphate). It is a substrate for an important reaction that involves vitamin B12 and it is necessary for the synthesis of DNA, and so required for all dividing cells.[30]
The pathway leading to the formation of tetrahydrofolate (FH4) begins when folate (F) is reduced to dihydrofolate (DHF) (FH2), which is then reduced to THF. Dihydrofolate reductase catalyses the last step.[31] Vitamin B3 in the form of NADPH is a necessary cofactor for both steps of the synthesis.
Methylene-THF (CH2FH4) is formed from THF by the addition of methylene groups from one of three carbon donors: formaldehyde, serine, or glycine. Methyl tetrahydrofolate (CH3-THF) can be made from methylene-THF by reduction of the methylene group with NADPH. It is important to note that Vitamin B12 is the only acceptor of methyl-THF. There is also only one acceptor for methyl-B12, which is homocysteine in a reaction catalyzed by homocysteine methyltransferase. This is important because a defect in homocysteine methyltransferase or a deficiency of B12 can lead to a methyl-trap of THF and a subsequent deficiency.[23] Thus, a deficiency in B12 can generate a large pool of methyl-THF that is unable to undergo reactions and will mimic folate deficiency. Another form of THF, formyl-THF or folinic acid results from oxidation of methylene-THF or is formed from formate donating formyl group to THF. Finally, histidine can donate a single carbon to THF to form methenyl-THF.
In other words:
folate → dihydrofolate → tetrahydrofolate ↔ methylene-THF → methyl-THF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folic_acid
Biochemistry of DNA base and amino acid production Metabolism of folic acid to produce methyl-vitamin B12In the form of a series of tetrahydrofolate (THF) compounds, folate derivatives are substrates in a number of single-carbon-transfer reactions, and also are involved in the synthesis of dTMP (2′-deoxythymidine-5′-phosphate) from dUMP (2′-deoxyuridine-5′-phosphate). It is a substrate for an important reaction that involves vitamin B12 and it is necessary for the synthesis of DNA, and so required for all dividing cells.[30]
The pathway leading to the formation of tetrahydrofolate (FH4) begins when folate (F) is reduced to dihydrofolate (DHF) (FH2), which is then reduced to THF. Dihydrofolate reductase catalyses the last step.[31] Vitamin B3 in the form of NADPH is a necessary cofactor for both steps of the synthesis.
Methylene-THF (CH2FH4) is formed from THF by the addition of methylene groups from one of three carbon donors: formaldehyde, serine, or glycine. Methyl tetrahydrofolate (CH3-THF) can be made from methylene-THF by reduction of the methylene group with NADPH. It is important to note that Vitamin B12 is the only acceptor of methyl-THF. There is also only one acceptor for methyl-B12, which is homocysteine in a reaction catalyzed by homocysteine methyltransferase. This is important because a defect in homocysteine methyltransferase or a deficiency of B12 can lead to a methyl-trap of THF and a subsequent deficiency.[23] Thus, a deficiency in B12 can generate a large pool of methyl-THF that is unable to undergo reactions and will mimic folate deficiency. Another form of THF, formyl-THF or folinic acid results from oxidation of methylene-THF or is formed from formate donating formyl group to THF. Finally, histidine can donate a single carbon to THF to form methenyl-THF.
In other words:
folate → dihydrofolate → tetrahydrofolate ↔ methylene-THF → methyl-THF
