Your Last Warning - Consume Folic Acid at your own risk.

[MrCynical]

You should have read the rest of my post to really understand my answer. Because the word "purity" has no generally beneficial character attached to it in the sense I meant. Which is that purity isn't the point, the point is what the impurity is made of. And in a natural way, it is made of what the body is designed to meet - which isn't the case with labs as they were no significant factor in our evolution from what I know.

If you don't find this important, than there is a lot about the complexity of nutrition you have to catch up on.

I did read and understand the rest of your post - it just wasn't relevant to the point I was making. My point was firstly that it was irrelevant where a given vitamin molecule came from, and secondly that synthetic vitamins are held to a very high standard of purity. i.e. there's very little in the way of impurities of any kind to cause problems.

As for how well vitamins absorbed in combination with other nutrients, and how good an idea dietary supplements are, that's a discussion for another thread. I'm just clearing up some of the ludicrous chemistry errors in this thread.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

FWIW, I know somebody with spina bifida.

 

[Narz]

A good way to detoxify from the pollutants of the modern world is via an infrared sauna.

I plan to get one, maybe this one, once I get settled & have a bit more money saved.

When my girlfriend was pregnant with our daughter she didn't take folic acid but ate a ton of dark leafy greens which have a lot of folate. I was a bit scared because I have spina-bifida in my family (my brother & sister both died of it as infants before I was born) but our daughter was fine.

If I was concerned about cancer, I'd stop smoking and drinking.

All the best things cause cancer, deal with it.

Not sex.

Exercise can be fun & it reduces risk of cancer, as do close social ties.

 

[ZeletDude]

I think the ancient astronaut aliens put folic acid in the food supply to kill off the non-hybrids so that they may reclaim the Earth.

There the ones behind it, of course.

Oh yes of course, it all makes sense now how could I have not seen this?!

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

So now that vaccine poisoning has been debunked, people have moved onto other conspiracies. I'd like to find a legitimate medical journal, and not a half-baked rag, present a clinical trial with evidence showing that folic acid increases cancer. (Which cancer, btw?) I have not heard of any, nor would any make sense. Folic acid is a vitamin, essential for replication of nucleic acids, whose deficiency would cause anemia, among other things. Relative deficiency of folic acid in pregnant women has been found to cause neural tube defects in neonates, which is why it is recommended as a supplement.

There is also no difference between folic acid and folate. Folate is just the anionic salt component. Either substance dissolved in any aqueous solution would dissociate into folate, thus having the same effect. And it doesn't matter which of the two is synthetic. The source of a chemical has no bearing on its properties, when it is the same substance.

 

[emzie]

So now that vaccine poisoning has been debunked, people have moved onto other conspiracies. I'd like to find a legitimate medical journal, and not a half-baked rag, present a clinical trial with evidence showing that folic acid increases cancer. (Which cancer, btw?) I have not heard of any, nor would any make sense. Folic acid is a vitamin, essential for replication of nucleic acids, whose deficiency would cause anemia, among other things. Relative deficiency of folic acid in pregnant women has been found to cause neural tube defects in neonates, which is why it is recommended as a supplement.

There is also no difference between folic acid and folate. Folate is just the anionic salt component. Either substance dissolved in any aqueous solution would dissociate into folate, thus having the same effect. And it doesn't matter which of the two is synthetic. The source of a chemical has no bearing on its properties, when it is the same substance.

Since folic acid plays a part in cell division, it has to do with cancer. Sorta how water is also important to cell division, and thus has to do with cancer. Ban water.

 

[Miles Teg]

A good way to detoxify from the pollutants of the modern world is via an infrared sauna.

How do people talk about "detoxifying" themselves with a straight face? I usually try to avoid showing people OMGLONG articles to read, but I'd really reccomend giving this a once over. It's a really great piece on why there's all this talk of toxins that you get from living in the modern world is nothing but fear-mongering, and infrared saunas are very expensive toys, not miracle cures.

 

[Rashiminos]

How do people talk about "detoxifying" themselves with a straight face? I usually try to avoid showing people OMGLONG articles to read, but I'd really reccomend giving this a once over. It's a really great piece on why there's all this talk of toxins that you get from living in the modern world is nothing but fear-mongering, and infrared saunas are very expensive toys, not miracle cures.

Air we breathe, water we drink, and even the food we eat...

Wait, nothing to see here.

legitimate medical journal

"Popularly esteemed publication."

 

[Miles Teg]

Air we breathe, water we drink, and even the food we eat...

None of which show more than minute trace amounts of toxins.

Try again.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Air we breathe, water we drink, and even the food we eat...

Wait, nothing to see here.

Your movement won't be appeased until a complete dial-back of the Industrial Revolution is achieved.

Nearly everyone in the village has died from the Plague, but at least there aren't any errant carcinogens in our food!

 

[Rashiminos]

Your movement won't be appeased until a complete dial-back of the Industrial Revolution is achieved.

Nearly everyone in the village has died from the Plague, but at least there aren't any errant carcinogens in our food!

What is my movement, pray tell?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

So now that vaccine poisoning has been debunked, people have moved onto other conspiracies. I'd like to find a legitimate medical journal, and not a half-baked rag, present a clinical trial with evidence showing that folic acid increases cancer. (Which cancer, btw?) I have not heard of any, nor would any make sense. Folic acid is a vitamin, essential for replication of nucleic acids, whose deficiency would cause anemia, among other things. Relative deficiency of folic acid in pregnant women has been found to cause neural tube defects in neonates, which is why it is recommended as a supplement.

Being good in some ways is not an argument. Vitamins are also good and important for this and that - yet people who took pills with vitamins are showing reverse effects of what vitamins are supposed to cause. Like some vitamin - I believe it was D - is supposed to decrease the rate of lunge cancer - the vitamin D pills increased it.

That the vitamin hype of the 80s resulted in those findings should be enough to teach people how wrong it is to assume something is safe because it is necessary for something or good in some ways. It is way more complex than that.

 

[Lord of Elves]

What is my movement, pray tell?

Alternative health groups, the whole collection.

 

[Rashiminos]

Alternative health groups, the whole collection.

No, I'm pretty sure most of their remedies cause a lot of harm to their wallets.

 

[Narz]

How do people talk about "detoxifying" themselves with a straight face? I usually try to avoid showing people OMGLONG articles to read, but I'd really reccomend giving this a once over. It's a really great piece on why there's all this talk of toxins that you get from living in the modern world is nothing but fear-mongering, and infrared saunas are very expensive toys, not miracle cures.

That was a terrible article, very unscientific, full of strawmen.

“Blue is associated with spiritual awareness," purred the receptionist, “but you can choose a different colour therapy if you want."

OMG, if the receptionist is making such comments to try to build rapport with the client the product must be BS. :runaway:

What's next, some massage therapist made a silly "spiritual comment" therefore touch is bad for you?

If you have any actual content to share, please do... tl/dr drivel about how stupid alternative health is from some bored nurse please don't. It's amazing she could write so many paragraphs while essentially saying nothing.

Anyway, the body's first priority is detoxification. That was exhaling is for, urination, deification. These things are important. You can stay under water for longer than you can hold your breathe above because you can exhale.

Toxins & heavy metals in people's blood is bad, m'kay? Some dumbass nurse saying they aren't doesn't make it so.

In a quick Google Scholar search I couldn't find much significant about infrared saunas, just this one article.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/l811255n25841811/

If anyone has any further info (info not poorly writen op-eds) please feel free to share.

 

[Narz]

None of which show more than minute trace amounts of toxins.

Try again.

Again, just making statements doesn't actually mean anything.

Air : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16222161

Water : http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-10-drugs-tap-water_N.htm

Food : http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/108582/20110203/china-makes-fake-rice-from-plastic-report.htm

Just from a couple minutes of searching.

 

[Miles Teg]

That was a terrible article, very unscientific, full of strawmen.

I'm sorry that one quote about spirituality soured you on a rather insightful article. Perhaps you should take a second look at her overview of how every one of the (highly divergent) explanations as to how infrared saunas work makes no physical or chemical sense. Seems plenty scientific to me.

Anyway, the body's first priority is detoxification. That was exhaling is for, urination, deification. These things are important. You can stay under water for longer than you can hold your breathe above because you can exhale.

All true. The body does an excellent job of detoxifying itself, and there's no evidence we can improve it by stepping under certain lights. What's more, there's no evidence that we need to. Our body has a tolerance for low levels of chemicals, and we regulate everything well enough to be assured that the toxins we encounter in life don't even get near our limits.

Toxins & heavy metals in people's blood is bad, m'kay? Some dumbass nurse saying they aren't doesn't make it so.

The point isn't "Toxins and Heavy Metals are good for you", it's "You aren't swimming in a sea of Toxins and Heavy Metals like some fearmongerers want you to think."

 

[Miles Teg]

Air : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16222161

A cause for concern, but not panic. Air pollution is a problem (I wasn't thinking of that when the topic was solely focused on drugs and other consumed chemicals).

Water : http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-10-drugs-tap-water_N.htm

When we find a trillionth of a part of a drug, that's a testament to how incredibly advanced our chemistry is, not a danger. That's orders of magnitude below our incredibly conservative safe limit, which is calculated based on the very weakest and most sensitive people. You'd have to drink the water for hundreds of years before it threatened to be a problem.

Food : http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/108582/20110203/china-makes-fake-rice-from-plastic-report.htm

That says something about food quality in third world countries, but says little about food regulation the US. We've yet to have problems with Chinese rice, and even our nastiest problems with shoddy imported food, like the Chinese milk, killed less than ten people. You have a better chance of being struck by lighting while dancing on a roof in the rain than you do of coming across contaminated food.

 

[Narz]

I'm sorry that one quote about spirituality soured you on a rather insightful article. Perhaps you should take a second look at her overview of how every one of the (highly divergent) explanations as to how infrared saunas work makes no physical or chemical sense. Seems plenty scientific to me.

I'm not really interested in listening to her disputing advertising claims. Frankly, I'd be just as happy with a regular sauna but infrared ones seem to be comparably priced.

All true. The body does an excellent job of detoxifying itself, and there's no evidence we can improve it by stepping under certain lights. What's more, there's no evidence that we need to.

Well we don't "need to" exercise or do many things but they might make us feel better if we do. Frankly, I like saunas. If I'm sick I do one I'll generally feel better. The limited scientific study on saunas seem to be mostly positive : http://ijch.fi/issues/653/653_Kukkonen-Harjula.pdf

Our body has a tolerance for low levels of chemicals, and we regulate everything well enough to be assured that the toxins we encounter in life don't even get near our limits.

I'm less worried about "getting near my limits" (immediate death I assume you mean) & more with my overall quality of life. I tested high for mercury & lead in 2001 which is part of what prompted me to be curious about such things.

IIRC, the WHO found that about 4% of Japanese men had healthy average sperm levels (http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19980530/15050214.html). I mean doesn't that strike you as interesting in the least?

It's funny, for everyone shouting "things aren't quite fine" from a soapbox you'll find 5 people shouting even more loudly "yes they are!".

The point isn't "Toxins and Heavy Metals are good for you", it's "You aren't swimming in a sea of Toxins and Heavy Metals like some fearmongerers want you to think."

Um, yes we are. Go bring a beaker by the side of the highway & analyze it & get back to me. Car exhaust will kill you (fast or slow). Your computer is offgassing right now. The only argument as as to the matter of degree & whether being arsed to mitigate any of it is worth the personal trouble.

 

[Miles Teg]

I'm not really interested in listening to her disputing advertising claims. Frankly, I'd be just as happy with a regular sauna but infrared ones seem to be comparably priced.

It doesn't bother you that none of the people selling these infrared sauna can come up with an explanation of how their product works that isn't so chock full of woo that it makes the Shake Weight look legit?

I'm less worried about "getting near my limits" (immediate death I assume you mean)

I'm talking about the legal limits of acceptable chemical concentration in the bodies of the exposed. That particular standard is set well below what anyone's even ever gotten sick from long-term exposure to.

I tested high for mercury & lead in 2001 which is part of what prompted me to be curious about such things.

The problem with mercury testing in particular is that there's a whole cottage industry devoted to telling people that they have unacceptable levels of certain chemicals in their blood (Here's more if you're interested). As I mentioned earlier, there's a huge gap between "what we can detect" and "what could possibly pose any harm to you".

IIRC, the WHO found that about 4% of Japanese men had healthy average sperm levels (http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19980530/15050214.html). I mean doesn't that strike you as interesting in the least?

Yeah, but there's contradictory evidence. The idea that sperm count may be decreasing is highly controversial and speculative, not something you want to use as a settled example of you thesis.