ZF1 - Zed's Training Day Game

Turn 3 -- 690 BC
Warrior defeats Barbarian Horseman without a scratch.
Nanking builds Worker, I order up Barracks.
Chengdu builds Worker, I order up Barracks.
Hangchow finishes Galley, I order up Barracks (see a trend here?).
Remember the game phases... we're near the end of our expansion phase and beginning our consolidation phase. Moreover we don't have any pressing military needs at the moment. What does this mean? It means any first ring cities that are not finishing up the expansion builds (settlers) should start on infrastructure. So, Chengdu building barracks... I would rather see it get an early start on infra that will be immediately useful (we don't expect to see Chengdu building troops for a while, and we can always crash-build it later if necessary since it's cheap for us.) So, a temple, marketplace, or courthouse would be better. On the other hand, Nanking and Hangchow are second-ring cities, so should continue to look at workers, settlers, and military... so barracks at Nanking and Hangchow are possible ideas. You later change Nanking to worker which is fine as well since we're ok on military at the moment. I'd like to get one more galley out of Hangchow though so we can have one exploring in each direction. Don't neglect the value of map trades -- the more we explore on our own, the better the deals we can make.

Tientsin is founded...I begin building Temple (we're going to need to rush this one, I think...it's close to the Iroquois, plus there's a gap between it and Nanking that could be problematic. I considered changing Nanking to Temple, but that would take 68 turns to also help...instead I change Nanking to Worker...I want to get both Tientsin and the Spices online asap.

Tientsin is hopelessly corrupt, at least until we get to Republic, and would need a courthouse to be productive anyway. So, whipping a temple there is definately a possibility -- having more than 1 pop there isn't helping us much for the moment anyway. More workers is always a good idea until after rails. :)

Xinjian completes Spearman, I order up Temple.
Hangchow completes Barracks, I order up Spearman.
I micromanage Canton so that it doesn't complete Settler until after it grows to Size 4.

Micromanage Canton -- how? Did you give up shields for more food? If so, good -- we should still be in max food mode anyway. Or did you just give up shields? If the latter, and the city will grow at the same pace regardless of how many shields you are producing, then you might as well finish the settler early even if it drops you to 1 briefly. Why waste shields? You will still grow to the same size in the same amount of time.

Shanghai grows to size 5...Pyramids in 39. I get it down to 34, at the cost of Shanghai taking 20 turns instead of 10 to grow (Shanghai is probably going to revolt at 6 anyway)...I reconsider, as both Gems and Incense should be online before then...so I set Shanghai back to 6 in 10/Pyr in 39.

Good thing you put Shanghai back on growth in 10, or else you would have got the :smoke: call. You should never limit city growth rate at this stage of the game if you can avoid it (and it's almost always a bad idea in general, unless your city is working every tile it can.) There are many ways of combatting happiness problems; we haven't even touched lux tax yet! A 10% lux tax will only touch our biggest cities, which are the ones most likely to have happiness problems to begin with. In most circumstances (i.e. not wartime with a democracy) you rarely need more than 20% lux tax, which is hardy onerous.

Our L33T Warrior dies at the hands of a Barbarian?!? Outrage! I send the other local warrior to deal with it.
Worker on way to Diamond Delta...I know that Conventional Wisdom says Chop Down Jungle First, then build Road...but I think we need to get these Gems on line and get DD hooked up asap, so I'm going to buck conventional wisdom and build a road.
MMOW

Connecting cities with needed resources is almost always considered sufficient reason to not clear the terrain first, so no worries on that score. If you were to start working on any other tiles in the region, though, I'd say clear the jungle first.

BTW, MMOW doesn't really apply if you're only moving a few workers around (we don't really have that many yet!) Wait until you've got several stacks of multiple workers marching around, each starting and finishing improvements on the same turn... then you'll have MMOW. :)

Dockonda Bay finishes Settler, I order up Barracks. I move the Settler North (see below)
Our Cultural Influence is Expanding (Tuskany Bay)...we now have Horsies!
Tatung is founded at Yellow Dot city. I order up Barracks (next player can change).
We're losing 3 GPT by researching at 90%...but Republic will be due in 5. If you want to drop to 80%, we'll earn 4 GPT and Republic will be available in 6 turns.

Dockonda is a 1st ring city -- since it's done its settler push and we're going to consolidation mode, I'd rather see non-military infrastructure here, probably starting with a temple to get whatever Tsingtao's temple doesn't cover in radius.

Tatung is quite corrupt but has high food due to the fish (and more when we swap to Republic) so better than a barracks might be workers. It can be a worker factory and still grow at a good pace, so I'd make Tatung the supplier of quality workers to the rest of NW China! :) This will take some of the worker-production burden off our remaining second-ring cities.

The Settler just built should head to Orange Dot; the Settler due in Beijing next turn should head to Pink Dot (they should arrive at almost the exact same time). The two subsequent settlers should be sent to Royal Blue Dot (although you might want to disperse the Barbarian encampment first), and then to that little promontory at the SE of our nation (by Canton)

We're almost done settling our little patch of land; we may want to settle N of Pink Dot, but unless we find an island nearby, I don't know where else to go--if anywhere

Settler plan sounds about right for our current batch of settlers -- Canton's settler can definately take care of green dot (from older dotmaps, the very tip of the promontory by Canton.) At that point, Beijing and our 1st ring cities should stop with the settlers and start consolidation... but that doesn't mean we should stop settling. Our 2nd and 3rd ring cities should still be pumping out settlers as time permits (i.e. when they are not building workers or military.) Any land we grab from the AI now gives us four benefits even if it's hopelessly corrupt:
- The AI doesn't have it so it weakens them.
- It's land we don't have to conquer later.
- There might be resources there we can't see yet.
- If we build an FP in the area, it might be productive land someday.

So, definately keep settling as opportunity permits -- but we're going to be out of mad land grab mode soon, so the priority on settling is starting to taper off a bit (at least as far as our 1st ring cities are concerned.)


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Looking at the map, I see a few anomalies (not just from your turn, ChrTh):
- Where's the irrigation? We're going to be in Republic soon, remember... that means irrigated grass is worth 3 food, not 2. We should irrigate some tiles around Shanghai so we can grow it faster once we hit Republic. Chengdu also has some flood plains that need irrigation so it can grow quickly -- remember flood plains are good food sources even in Despotism! We want every city to have at least 4 or 5 surplus food, especially in the first ring (other than Hangchow and green dot, which are just fishing villages -- they get harbours instead.) It doesn't pay to wait until we already have Republic since then we can't take advantage of it right away when we swap governments; rather, we need to get a jump-start on it. We have lots of rivers and lakes around for fresh water, so get cracking on that irrigation! :)

- By the same token, why do we have mines north and west of Xinjian? Exactly how were you planning to get the plains SE of Xinjian irrigated? You can't irrigate between the hills/mountain to get there. I suppose you could mine the plains and irrigate the grass instead to make up for it, but the point is Xinjian has got quite a bit of hills and plains around so you need to make up the food defecit somehow.

- I can't really tell from the map how many workers we have, since I don't know if any are stacked, but I do see we still have lots of tiles to improve. More workers always helps... especially if we want to clear all that jungle in NW China.

- We do want to keep a few forest around for now, especially near cities that don't have hills nearby. Some variety in terrain is good, so you can change a city from high-food to high-shields and vice-versa, just by changing which tiles are being worked -- you can't do that if all you have are mined grassland. This requires some micromanagement to take advantage of, and starts to become irrelevant once a city has hospitals, but until then it's a useful ability to have.

- Remember, we might want to build a road around our Iron and pillage our Iron hill to prevent our Iron from depleting before we're ready to start building Riders. We have horses now so we should be building horsemen (upgradable to Riders) instead of swordsmen (dead end) anyway.


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Remember the game phases again, the consolidation phase starts off with the 1st ring cities trying to grow as big as possible to become as productive as possible. Most of our 1st ring cities have rivers, which means they will be growing to 12 quickly (esp. once Pyramids comes online), plus we'll be in Republic soon so no MP, which means the lux tax will need to get boosted, probably to 20% or more until we get some marketplaces built. Don't worry if you have to bump lux tax up to keep people happy, it will pay for itself with more tiles worked, thus more base production and more base income! Xinjian, Canton, and green dot city (when it gets founded) will be limited to size 6 until they get aqueducts, though, so don't forget to skim workers off them once they hit size 6 -- remember that even though we're in consolidation phase, we still want our cities to be growing all the time so they are not wasting food, and we still need a LOT more workers for the long haul!

This means our 2nd ring cities are going to have to take up a lot of slack. Your toughest priority calls are going to be in the second ring cities, not the 1st ring cities! They need to handle military builds, workers, settlers, and the odd temple... and none of them can build anything quickly. The 1st ring cities should be easy to figure out, though -- just build whatever economic infrastructure element looks to be most needed next. (Don't neglect courthouses -- the benefits might seem small percentage-wise, but over the long haul they add up quickly!) Also, note that if the second ring cities don't look like they can hack taking care of all our military needs then you may need to pull one or more of our 1st ring cities off economic infrastructure for a bit to compensate. We want war on our terms, not on the AI's terms, so we need to maintain a strong appearance to the AI. Non-vet troops are good for that if troops are needed and no barracks is in place (they can always be used as MP/garrison later) -- even workers add to our "troop count" as far as the AI is concerned, which is another reason why more workers always helps. :)
 
Holy smokes!
I'm in no mood to put out a long report right now, I'll try to have that up first thing in the morning (us east). But here is a little taste...Babylon declared war on us in my second turn and burned down Chengdu. I cleaned out their warriors, losing a spear, and then went to work diplomatically. We have an ROP with Japan and a military alliance with Persia! No further insurrections by the Babylonians. I have been on a military and infrastructure kick the whole time. Chengdu has been replaced and all cities are covered or have coverage on the way. Whew!
 
Originally posted by Mystery13
Holy smokes!
I'm in no mood to put out a long report right now, I'll try to have that up first thing in the morning (us east). But here is a little taste...Babylon declared war on us in my second turn and burned down Chengdu. I cleaned out their warriors, losing a spear, and then went to work diplomatically. We have an ROP with Japan and a military alliance with Persia! No further insurrections by the Babylonians. I have been on a military and infrastructure kick the whole time. Chengdu has been replaced and all cities are covered or have coverage on the way. Whew!

Ugh! This is my fault. I saw Babylon moving troops about (but by their borders, not ours), but I never expected the target to be us, otherwise I would've noted it in my report..

See, maybe it was a good idea for me to build Barracks ;)
 
Another Mysterious reign, this the third...

IT: A quick survey of the surroundings. Zed had some recommendations that I tried to apply. We'll see how it goes.
I switch Dockanda Bay to barracks so it will grow and produce military
Tuskany to courthouse (Production is good even with corruption at 60%)
Diamond Delta to Harbor
Chengdu to temple
Tatung to worker
Hangchow to galley

530 B.C.
Beijing builds settler, switches to spearman.
Lots of worker and warrior movement.
Just an observation. Reading earlier succession games I came across what I thought was a perfect irrigate/mine plan.
Absent hills, mine all grass shields, irrigate plains and non-shield grass. In my opinion, we are wasting
a lot of worker time mining non-grass shields this early. Does this sound right? We've got unused 1 shield grass squares
sitting around and they now have to be irrigated with Republic on board.

In between turns...Babylon declared war!!! And burned Chengdu to the ground. I guess we shouldn't have let them wander
around so much. We have a lot of open territory between our cities and I really couldn't order them out.
Canton builds settler, starts on barracks

510 B.C.
I establish embassy with Japan and ask for alliance but no can do, so I take a ROP.
Change Beijing to archer.
Move settlers and workers out of the way.

490 B.C.
Belay the Beijing order, Babs only sending warriors so will go back to defensive stance.
Found extra sleeping spearman in Beijing...boy would he have been useful in one of our many uncovered cities!
Lots of worker and warrior movement, trying to kill some babs here and it isn't easy with no military.

470 B.C.
Lose the extra vet spearman to the regular warrior, but kill him with another spear.
Babs won't talk to us yet.
We could really use Shanghai as a military city right now, but can't waste that many shields.
Switch Hangchow from galley to horseman (in one turn). That will help.
One more babs warrior to get next turn.
Lots of worker, warrior and settler movement.
Science to 70 to gain a few bucks, Republic in one.

In between turns, learn Republic, switch to Lit.
Tsingtao builds temple, switches to Courthouse.
Hangchow builds horse, switches to spear (go back to galley after our territory is secure).

450 B.C.
Babs still won't talk to us.
Last babs warrior killed, spotted bowman on the way from homeland.
Resettled Chengdu, now Macao I think.
Science to 60, Lit in 9 with 10gpt.
Embassy with Persia, they are working on Pyramids, due in 67!
For the republic, they will join us against Babs.
Construction, Polytheism, 3 gold and a territory map from Japan for Republic!
World map and 20 gold from the Iros.
World map and 170 from the English.

In between, Japan allies with babs against Persia.
Dockanda Bay finishes Barracks, start on spearman.
Palace expansion, we have a nice lawn.

430 B.C.
All worker, military movement.

In between, warrior successfully defends against bowman!
Temple finished in Xinjian, change to Harbor (all plains, not enough food to grow).
Hangchow putting out spearman.

410 B.C.
Worker, military movement.

390 B.C.
Spices online.
Orange dot ready to settle.

370 B.C.
Macao founded at orange dot, settler heading to magenta (?) dot.
Need one more settler for dark blue dot.
Worker movement, no Babs in site yet. They must be too busy with the Persians!

350 B.C.
Beijing finishes spear, switch to temple for growth.

End of the reign

Chengdu, macao, dockanda remain uncovered.
One spear heading to chengdu.
2 spear almost complete for other two cities.
We have a vet horse in Tientsin.
We now have 34 units, mostly worker.
One more settler needed for blue dot.
Should be an island to our east with that much fog to babylon.
Should have extra gems online for trading soon, maybe connect our roads with the Iroquois for ground trading.
Tatung appears to be working as worker factory as planned, Nanking also works fairly well.
Still at war with babylon, but they are now having fun with Persia Neither side appears to be making progress.
We have an ROP with Japan, who is allied with Babs against Persia.
We are allied with Persia against Babs.
 
ZF1-350BC.jpeg
 
Snaking the Persians to fight Babylon....Tender! :goodjob:

Where's that Settler headed, Purple Dot?
 
Yeah, settler is going to purple dot. My hope is we get the inland settled and then take the coast behind it. Zed has been harping on us about the FP city. I suppose we should get that started just in case we don't war soon enough to put it on someone else's land. Of course, that will be up to Padma now.
 
Padme,

If you are ready to play tonight, and feel like it, go ahead. I will try to post some comments for Mysterious tonight but as I am only leaving work now (it's 7:40 pm) I don't think I will get the chance, and if I do it will be quite late.
 
Comments on Mysterious's turn...

Just an observation. Reading earlier succession games I came across what I thought was a perfect irrigate/mine plan.
Absent hills, mine all grass shields, irrigate plains and non-shield grass. In my opinion, we are wasting
a lot of worker time mining non-grass shields this early. Does this sound right? We've got unused 1 shield grass squares
sitting around and they now have to be irrigated with Republic on board.

There really is no single formula for irrigation/mining that can universally be applied to guarantee perfect results
every time. You have to treat each city individually -- what is the city short on? What does it have lots of? What do you need to do to maximize its potential? The first consideration is always whether you have enough food to grow at a decent rate, but in the end whether you get 4 food from 1 irrigated plains and 1 mined grass or from 1 irrigated grass and 1 mined plains doesn't really matter... except with the latter you have more variability in the city squares you control, so you have more flexibility in what you can do if you choose to micromanage (i.e. if you only work 1 of the two, you have the option of the high food tile or the high shield tile. With mined grass and irrigated plains, you have no choice because both are the same.) So, I would look on any "perfect universal plan" for mining/irrigation with a high degree of skepticism. That is something that needs to be tailored on a per-city basis.
To sum up, so long as we've got enough food coming in, it doesn't matter whether we irrigate non-shield grass and mine shield grass or vice versa, if we're working all those tiles anyway. It's when we start to pick and choose which tiles we want to work (i.e. micromanagement) that having variability in tiles to choose from becomes a factor.

In between turns...Babylon declared war!!! And burned Chengdu to the ground. I guess we shouldn't have let them wander
around so much. We have a lot of open territory between our cities and I really couldn't order them out.

Looks to me that the Babs saw Chengdu was undefended and decided to take a potshot. I'll take some of the blame for this one; I saw the red unit in our territory and didn't question it in my review of ChrTh's turn, and I should have noticed that Chengdu was undefended. The AI DOES like to go after undefended (or underdefended) cities, so now you know that leaving an opening like that is an invitation to be attacked. :) Honestly, though, I was a bit surprised, since the AI usually doesn't get too aggressive while there's still room for expansion going on, and the logical targets for any aggressive impulses they might have are the Japs or maybe Iroquois -- not the civ way the heck on the other side of the continent!

Let me emphasize that a bit -- other than whatever few troops they might have in the area, this is likely to be a phony war for the most part. The supply lines are just too long, especially in the ancient era with no roads. We really don't need to react strongly to this war -- beef up defenses a bit just in case, perhaps, and ensure that we don't leave more openings like Chengdu, but otherwise, continue with business as usual. This is especially true now that Persia's in the game.

510 B.C.
I establish embassy with Japan and ask for alliance but no can do, so I take a ROP.
Change Beijing to archer.
Move settlers and workers out of the way.

Japan is smaller than us and should be paying us for the privelage of getting an ROP (not that this is a bad idea, as it improves relations, but we should be getting something out of the deal.) Did you add gold on their side of the ledger when you made the deal to see how much they would pay? If not, try it next time, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Beijing to... archer?!? Military, sure, but why not horses? They are much more useful and can be upgraded to something even better, whereas archers are past their prime now, are slow, and only upgrade to longbows... yech.

Lots of worker and warrior movement, trying to kill some babs here and it isn't easy with no military.

470 B.C.
Lose the extra vet spearman to the regular warrior, but kill him with another spear.
Babs won't talk to us yet.

I assume you were trying to take out warriors using spears on the attack. This is probably not the best use of spears -- better to use them to (a) defend other cities, or (b) try to goad the babs into attacking them by putting the spear next to the warrior, preferably in good defensive terrain. Usually attacking with a defensive unit like spears is reserved for moments of desperation and/or against a severely wounded enemy. Granted, you may not have much in the way of units yet, but patience is a virtue... a couple more turns and you would have had some real offense to go take those pests out with. A horseman does a much better job on the attack than a spear, provided you are careful not to leave him exposed to counter-attack. Since we are fighting in our territory, this shouldn't be a problem.

General advice for when you do attack -- be aware of the terrain, it can make a huge difference. Don't attack across rivers, but try to defend across rivers. Don't attack into defensible terrain, try to defend defensible terrain. If you have the manpower, try to deny the high ground to the enemy; they will often try to approach their objective (like your city) while travelling along a hill/mountain chain, so if you see them using one for that purpose getting some units up near the beginning of the chain will force them to attack you there where you have the high ground, rather than making it hard for you to drive them off as they have the high ground while they march on your city. Try not to leave mobile units vulnerable to counter-attack; they generally have low defense and are too costly and valuable on offense to waste, so either ensure that no enemy can get to them, or else cover them with a defensive troop.

Lots of worker, warrior and settler movement.
Science to 70 to gain a few bucks, Republic in one.

In between turns, learn Republic, switch to Lit.

Warrior movement? Hmm. Checking the map pic, we have 346 gold... I can't tell for sure, but it looks like we have still got our Iron connected up -- so, if you need more offense, the logical thing to do was move some warriors to towns with barracks, and upgrade them to swords! That should improve your chances versus the Babs.

Switch to Literature? Waste of time. We can pick that up off the AI civs at low low prices once they've researched it and shopped it around. At this point, we should be thinking, either we are going for the tech lead or we aren't, and if we're not we should turn off research altogether and just buy tech from the AI civs once they've cost-reduced it by shopping it around. Since we're going to need lots of cash to upgrade horses to Riders so we can go on the warpath, and since cash is useful for rushing all sorts of things (like courthouses in corrupt towns) in Republic, IMO we should forget tech and go for the gold. :) If we did want to go for the tech lead, Literature would have been a good call, except that we should probably have gotten it before Republic rather than afterwards. Of course, we're at Literature in 3 now, so we might as well finish it off if theres' a chance we could shop it around for something, but stop research after that.

We should be switching to Republic NOW. Even though we're at war. War weariness in Republic is not bad unless the war is protracted; we don't intend to be at war long, we are the defender rather than the aggressor (makes a big difference in Republic/Democracy) and we have the necessary lux to cover any war weariness that might occur. Even if we do have to bump the lux tax eventually to cover off weariness, the gain in income from Republic will more than offset it -- and by the time we need to bump lux tax due to overcrowding, the war will be over.

Babs still won't talk to us.
Last babs warrior killed, spotted bowman on the way from homeland.
Resettled Chengdu, now Macao I think.
Science to 60, Lit in 9 with 10gpt.
Embassy with Persia, they are working on Pyramids, due in 67!
For the republic, they will join us against Babs.
Construction, Polytheism, 3 gold and a territory map from Japan for Republic!
World map and 20 gold from the Iros.
World map and 170 from the English.

In between, Japan allies with babs against Persia.

The AI will never talk to you until at least 10 turns since they declared war on you, or you on them. So, not until a couple turns into Padme's tenure.

Science 60 with 10gpt -- there's another sub-optimal move on the research end of things. Usually you want to either research stuff as fast as possible (either to get as big a tech lead as you can, or to finish it before the AIs do so you can shop it around before they can) or you want to go 0 research (sometimes 10% or a lone scientist if there's a tech you can afford to wait 40 turns to get that's not on the way to something you really want.) Science values like 60% usually mean that by the time you get the tech, so does everyone else already, so you can't get much out of selling it -- you would have been better off to just let the AIs do it, save the cash, and buy it from them, as you would have come out ahead in funds and gotten the tech in the same time.

Signing Persia up against the Babs -- alliance (not MPP!) is not a bad call here. From a purely military point of view it was probably not needed, but from a diplomatic point of view it gives the Babs someone else to vent their aggressions on, and it prevents them from getting the whole world in on ganging up on us. Our objective with this alliance is to give the Babs someone else (and more of a threat) to vent their aggressions on, so that we can continue our infrastructure push, eventually make peace, and continue on our merry way. We want to be careful of two things here, though:
- We are now stuck in this alliance for 20 turns, whereas if we had toughed it out, we might have been able to make peace much sooner. If we make peace before we cancel this alliance, it will sully our reputation, and at this point in the game there's no call for that. (I don't think that there's any reason for deliberately blackening your rep, but to each his own... here if we blackened our rep it would be to no purpose, however.) So, we have to wait 20 turns for the alliance to expire, then cancel it (which will probably tick Xerxes off, so be sure to trade an RoP with him or something after to get him happy again,) and THEN make peace with the Babs. Hopefully by then the Babs will be in a conciliatory mood.
- We don't want anyone getting too big for their britches as a result of this. If Persia starts to suffer, we may have to offer them a couple sweetheart deals to get them back in the thick of things. If the Babs get the short end of it, I'm not sure how much we can do about it, though, at least until we make peace with them.

Japan allying with the Babs against Persia is not so good, if the Babs convince them to go up against us as well. We might want to give some thought to using Literatire to see if we can get the Iros or English in on this on our side, to give the Japs someone else to worry about, and to prevent them from being brought in against our side... but that will extend the amount of time until we can make peace. Tough call, though I don't think we really have too much to fear from Japan.

Temple finished in Xinjian, change to Harbor (all plains, not enough food to grow).

Umm, you do realize its borders will expand in 5 turns, making more grasslands available? It shouldn't need a harbour for food just yet -- what it needs is some workers to come by and irrigate some land! You will probably have to irrigate over those mines that someone put there in order to get water to those plains, since you can't irrigate between 2 hills, even diagonally. Xinjian should continue to focus on infrastructure if possible, but it can't grow past 6 without an aqueduct, so remember to slip in a worker from time to time.

Speaking of irrigation, still have no irriagted floodplains at Chengdu... that should take priority over irrigating plains, since the floodplains will let us grow faster -- especially in Republic!

------------

We look to be on track for moving back to our infrastructure buildout plan -- just keep a watchful eye on the diplomatic situation and keep up the troop/worker buildup in our second-tier cities (exploring galleys count too if we still need another one or two.) Remember, when it comes to declaring war on us the AI considers:
- how many total units we have (including workers)
- whether we have any inadequately defended cities -- how much defense is needed depends on how easy/hard it is to get to and what valuable resources/lux it has in its radius, but cities should always have at least 1 defender unless you are trying to bait the AI
- what our "best units" are -- in this case, swords and horses. We only need 1 of each to get the intimidation benefit.
- this doesn't include any diplomatic pressure that might be brought to bear by the other AI civs. It does affect the price those civs would have to pay to effect an alliance against us, however.

If the second tier cities are not cutting it for troop/worker production, cut one or two 1st tier cities over as well, or more if necessary, just don't panic-swap everything over to military if something comes up -- use a weighted response based on the threat level. The Babs were never really a credible threat, and are especially not now that they have Persia to deal with. It's going to take a while to see any results from that conflict; ancient era wars are not speedy things.

The other thing we should be sure to do is switch from research to funds, and then USE those funds for something! Don't just let them molder in our treasury (though keeping an emergency reserve is fine) -- we are nowhere near getting Wall Street so money in our treasury does us no good. Ideally, we should plow them back into infrastructure to get our economy really rolling ASAP, but using it for upgrades, or for rushing troops if some part of our empire looks a little weak and some AI troops are getting a bit close to our borders, is always fine too. Remember, as far as the AI is concerned, numbers matter more than quality, though we do need some quality troops around in case a real attack does occur.
 
Wow, lots of good stuff Zed. Thanks! Some admissions and explanations.

Ok, my perfect grass mine/irrigate strategy doesn't exist as hoped. However, around some cities we have mined nonshield grassland way in excess of what can be used before aqueducts and while still pumping out settlers. Now with Republic on board we are already switching those to irrigation.

You want the blame and ChrTh wants the blame for the Bab warrior, but really there wasn't much we could do. I saw him walk up to the city but had nothing available (didn't know of the extra spear in Beijing at the time). So far from home I couldn't believe they would declare war.

I did not ask for gpt from Japan for an ROP which was pure stupidity.

The warrior was in pillaging country around former Chengdu and I wanted to get rid of him. He was in open plains and not across a river from me.

Dammit, I did not switch to Republic immediately!!! Pure weed. The switch to Lit was the best available in my opinion but screwing up the science rate was more weed. I thought I knew better than that.

I didn't know there was an actual amount of turns that would pass before an enemy would talk to you after declaring war.

I signed up Persia really just for relations, not really because I was worried about the Babs. Persia has Iron so they should be ok. There is a lot of unsettled territory in the SW of our continent so either Babs, Persia or Japan has a chance to get very big, though with awful territory down there.

I was irrigating floodplains near Chengdu when the Babs warrior attacked. I moved them East to continue working while I cleaned out the 2 warriors and just hadn't moved them back. There are two irrigated plains though and with those and some shield producing squares it should grow quickly.

The warrior movement is definitely toward home. They were way out there (except for the guy exploring the farthest West).

All in all, could have done a lot better. Thanks for pointing out all those spots. Our infrastructure is better and I only have two cities producing military to shore up our internal defenses. I did not go overboard on that after the babs attack.

Good luck Padma.
 
OK. As I see it, my responsibility will be to get us to Republic, finish Lit and drop the science spending, work on infrastructure, and "prosecute" the phoney war.

No peace with the Babs, unless Persia does it first (let them blacken their rep). Get defenders in all our cities. (Oh yeah, settle the Purple Dot.) Do NOT go on the offensive! (Obvious :smoke: ) But try to stay on good relations with Japan.

Irrigate the Chengdu floodplains!

Micromanage as necessary, and don't worry about spending down the treasury a bit to buy improvements. Especially in Republic with little or no science.

I will try to play tonight (U.S. Central time). I will check back here first for any further guidance/discussion first, though.
 
A couple more things I forgot to mention/reiterate...

- Of course, we won't just be using our income to rush stuff, but to buy tech as well. Try to make sure you're purchasing at last-civ rates as much as possible. Only pay in gpt if (a) there is a pressing need for the tech and we don't have the cash on hand (b) you expect the civ you're paying to to be eliminated shortly or (c) you expect that civ to declare war on you right away. In any other case, it's typically better to pay in cash, even if you have to wait a few turns to gather the necessary funds. Hopefully neither (b) nor (c) will happen, and I don't foresee (a) becoming an issue anytime soon, so probably we won't be making gpt deals for tech, but don't take that as an absolute decree against gpt for tech deals -- if the circumstances warrant it, by all means do it.

- We do still want to grab any available land between us and the Iros/Japs. Whatever land there we manage to grab is buffer for our productive cities, it's land we don't have to conquer later, and it's land we deny to the AI. Don't slow the growth of our core cities to grab it, at least until Pyramids comes online, but by all means consider pumping settlers out of 2nd-ring cities and 1st-ring cities that can't grow any more due to need for aqueducts in order to claim as much of that land as we can.

- In this instance, I would not go with 10% science to get a tech in 40 turns, since I expect the AIs will be capable enough researchers that they will research everything faster than that anyway, and the gold is worth more than even 10% science. If we have a corrupt city in the middle of nowhere that can't do anything else anyway, I might put a scientist there to grab tech in 40 turns that way, but I wouldn't put science higher than 0.
 
Looking back at my mistakes, I get the impression that I'm paying too much attention to writing down each move and not paying enough attention to all of the available moves. Since writing is half the fun in these succession games, I'm going to have to find a way to solve this issue.
 
Preturn: After the death of their Mysterious ruler in 350 BC, the people of China began to clamor for a change. They wanted a say in their government. They would not allow another despot to sit on the throne. Their clamor rose to become a nationwide riot, a revolution. China sank into anarchy....

1) 330 BC: Our far western warrior is attacked by a barbarian horseman. He loses two HP before his victory. He shelters in the mountains, trying to regain his strength for an assault on the barbarian encampment. Started a road to the dyes by Tatung. (Get the Lux online, then clear the jungle.)

2) 310 BC: Hammurabi wants to make peace. The Persians are still fighting, so I tell him to forget it. He seems furious with us. Warriors returning home through Japan meet some Bab troops. We try detouring around them through some mountains. At the very least, they'll have to atteck us there, rather than us attacking them on the open plains.

3) 290 BC: They attack. A Bab bowman takes out one of our warriors. Our fully healed western warrior takes out the barb encampment on the western point. Start irrigating Chengdu floodplains! :D

4) 270 BC: After years of anarchy, the Chinese people elect Padma to lead them in their first Republic! Padmativa settled on the Purple Dot. Damn! Theres a barb encampment just to the Northwest!. And no defender yet! We get a ROP with Elizabeth for all HER gold (8). I did this because a) she was annoyed with us - made her polite, and b) lets us sail our galley through her waters without being yelled at every time we turn around.

5) 250 BC: I (finally) remember to check our tax/spend rates! I lower Science to 30% - we still get Lit in 1 turn, but now +38 gold. Micromanage citizens in Tatung to maximize growth.

6) 230 BC: Discover Literature. I switch to Currency, and set science to 0. Now getting 78 gold per turn. Start building horsemen in Dockonda Bay and Canton. There is an Iro warrior up by Padmativa heading toward the barb encampment. If it or the barb get nasty, I'll rush a defender.

7) 210 BC: Rushed a temple in Tientsin and Chengdu. I want to get those borders expanding.

8) 190 BC: Hiawatha wants a straight up trade of territory maps. I oblige. AARRGGHH! :aargh3: The Babylonians have completed the Pyramids! I switch Shanghai to the Great Library. If that's weed, there are still 17 turns to change it. One of our elite warrior/explorers fortifies in Padmativa.

9) 170 BC: Hammurabi and Hiawatha sign a military alliance against us! I thought that might be coming when he wanted to trade TMs. Rushed the temple in Nanking.

10) 150 BC: Hmmm. Liz wants to trade TMs now, too. I wonder if Hammurabi is trying to put pressure on people. I agree to it, to keep her polite (for another turn, at least).

Okay. We are in Republic. Zero Science. 81 gpt income. I built some infrastructure, and have several cities working on Horsemen. All cities now have at least one defender. We have one swordsman that I know of: a warrior I upgraded in Canton. There is a settler due in 8 turns in Chengdu. I have him in mind for the final blue dot up on our northeast peninsula.

We have 14 turns of ROP left with England. She MAY blacken her rep and join the Babs against us. Our Alliance with Persia still has 6 turns to go. We might want to see if we can get Tokugawa embroiled withthe Iroquois. (Oh what a tangled web we weave....)
 
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