Zohran Mamdani

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

If you look at the website of the organization that sponsored the event, under Finding the Right Community, you'll see that many of the locations where they place people are in the West Bank.

Though I'd be happy to concede this point, I doubt the spokesperson cared much for these distinctions. Otherwise you wouldn't be making excuses for these idiots.

Because the fact is, a bunch of people shouted nasty things (as was their right) at Jews whose desires about immigrating we don't know nor should we care, and the best the Mamdani camp comes up with is this "well maybe they have a point" both-sides-ing. What leadership.

 

[amadeus]

The first intifada was largely nonviolent until Israel responded by killing hundreds of people, so I think you should say what you think it entails.

I think of the more recent one, with the exploding vests and such. I’m sure these people can speak English, so why not use terms that are clear to Americans?

This applies to any language in any country. If I were to protest something here, it certainly wouldn’t be with an English-language slogan.

 

[Angst]

hallelujah on topic

Trump loves Mandami!

i think this is a political win for mamdani, the whole meeting and press release. saw half of it i think - it was very strange to see. the press on site did NOT like mamdani. mamdani was quite pressed on stuff, didn't take anything back - trump kept interjecting to get in mamdani's good graces, pulled back on rhetoric, etc.

he's insanely strong rhetorically. i'm kind of exhausted each time i watch him speak. haven't seen an actual slipup yet. in that situation, crazy that nothing went wrong.

now, he's gonna get criticized for cozying up to trump, but i don't think it comes across as such. i've seen no reactions among leftie acquaintances having that impression. mamdani simply recognizes that the federal government has power, and has acted on it. not actually pulling back on any rhetoric here is an importnat part of that (and trump did pull back a lot, defended mamdani in numerous areas - mamdani did not defend trump once, in the parts i watched).

i think what's going on is that trump recognizes mamdani is a big player and strong orator, so he wants to look good by association.

 

[Zardnaar]

hallelujah on topic

i think this is a political win for mamdani, the whole meeting and press release. saw half of it i think - it was very strange to see. the press on site did NOT like mamdani. mamdani was quite pressed on stuff, didn't take anything back - trump kept interjecting to get in mamdani's good graces, pulled back on rhetoric, etc.

he's insanely strong rhetorically. i'm kind of exhausted each time i watch him speak. haven't seen an actual slipup yet. in that situation, crazy that nothing went wrong.

now, he's gonna get criticized for cozying up to trump, but i don't think it comes across as such. i've seen no reactions among leftie acquaintances having that impression. mamdani simply recognizes that the federal government has power, and has acted on it. not actually pulling back on any rhetoric here is an importnat part of that (and trump did pull back a lot, defended mamdani in numerous areas - mamdani did not defend trump once, in the parts i watched).

i think what's going on is that trump recognizes mamdani is a big player and strong orator, so he wants to look good by association.

When I saw it I thought AI?

Trump be be less fascist vs totally amoral psychopath with NPD. He's completely incompetent.

 

[Angst]

one exchange that comes to mind - the reporters (maybe it was the same, idk) pressed zohran on whether he considered trump a fascist or not. first time, mamdani did a politician answer and noted that he was there for the city. when he was asked again later "are you affirming that you think president trump is a fascist?", zohran started answering, went fine, trump interjected and said "it's ok, you can just yes, so...it's easier." and zohran: "yes."

wild.

 

[Angst]

When I saw it I thought AI?

Trump be be less fascist vs totally amoral psychopath with NPD. He's completely incompetent.

i don't understand what you mean at all. can you rephrase?

 

[Zardnaar]

one exchange that comes to mind - the reporters (maybe it was the same, idk) pressed zohran on whether he considered trump a fascist or not. first time, mamdani did a politician answer and noted that he was there for the city. when he was asked again later "are you affirming that you think president trump is a fascist?", zohran started answering, went fine, trump interjected and said "it's ok, you can just yes, so...it's easier." and zohran: "yes."

wild.

Is Trump worse than a fascist? They believe in something.

 

[amadeus]

one exchange that comes to mind - the reporters (maybe it was the same, idk) pressed zohran on whether he considered trump a fascist or not. first time, mamdani did a politician answer and noted that he was there for the city. when he was asked again later "are you affirming that you think president trump is a fascist?", zohran started answering, went fine, trump interjected and said "it's ok, you can just yes, so...it's easier." and zohran: "yes."

wild.

I didn’t watch it at all, but one could read it as kind of a smart move by Trump to not be offended, just get him to say “yes” and move on, and kind of just take away the moment.

 

[Angst]

Is Trump worse than a fascist? They believe in something.

fascists have the same relationship with the truth that trump has, in that it's arbitrary and exchangable (and ideally, pre-confused) so the large scope of the story, the power of our fighting side against the Other, can remain true in spite of any details. trump indeed builds on these structures obviously for his own sake and doesn't believe anything but his power, so in a sense, yes, he believes in less. is he worse? he's less competent (even with the usual incompetence of fascists), and a moral failing doesn't always translate to being "worse", worse can also just be the imprint of the world, ie thinking about it in a consequentalist as to who does more damage, regardless of moral integrity.

but does he have more of a moral failing? that's possibly an interesting question. i'm thinking back to the fascists i've spoken to irl (mask off people) and i have to say that in spite of them being viciously abhorrent, at least they have positions, and most are aware that the fascist tendencies in western governments are utilizing the fascist tendencies in the voter base while not necessarily believing in it. one would assume they are begrudgingly accepting it, but in reality, they don't much care, because they do not care about integrity, they do not care about the truth, other than the great truth, that enemy X must be dealt with in any way possibl, and even if enemy X is innocent, it still must be fought, so that the ingroup can be rallied the quickest way possible.

like, don't get me wrong, you got me musing lol - i'm ready to call trump worse than anything really. but the fascist relationship with the truth and the moral integrity of spineless politicians are both interesting questions here. that said, not sure it belongs in this thread.

 

[Angst]

I didn’t watch it at all, but one could read it as kind of a smart move by Trump to not be offended, just get him to say “yes” and move on, and kind of just take away the moment.

it's smart, but in the sense that trump recognizes that mamdani is a rhetorical juggernaut, and that trump needs to respect that. there were weird moments of kowtowing and glazing from trump during the press conference. it was weird to see.

trump thinks of the world as big men having to deal with big men. the press was clearly ready to have him dunk on mamdani and really pushed for trump to try and undercut mamdani there. but it just didn't happen. for people that have such disposition (big men vs/with big men), trump could maneuver it in two ways; try and outgun mamdani (which would be risky if mamdani could navigate it and push back, which we know he can, and trump would then look weak), play neutral (show of weakness) or glaze (slight show of weakness, but probably the best outcome if mamdani comes across as a big man, since big recognizes big). this is one of the places trump knows how to play the game. he did a risk assessment and did not want to risk losing face here. this solidifies mamdani as a big man for those who care about that, and for those that don't but can identify it and know that it matters, it's also a win for mamdani.

and i'm sorry for the juvenile phrasing of this (big man and stuff) but it's really how juvenile this kind of stuff is. and yes at the same time i'm so relieved that a democrat is able to master that and control the conversation; be a core character in the discourse.

 

[amadeus]

I think part of it is also if Trump responds, then he acknowledges that he too has elevated Mamdani to peer equivalent, which is probably what the cameras wanted. Calling it like a game is not wrong, because it is. Just usually the sizing up and high school bully tactics are done behind the scenes.

Edit: I think it is interesting because we look at it from the outside and are supposed to see like two mortal enemies, but the truth is that while policy disagreements create a wide gap they are both playing the same game, which neither one can or wants to end, and neither wants to acknowledge. It’s two zero-sum thinkers coming together, an unstoppable force and an immovable object.

 

[GenMarshall]

Now, he's gonna get criticized for cozying up to trump, but i don't think it comes across as such. i've seen no reactions among leftie acquaintances having that impression. mamdani simply recognizes that the federal government has power, and has acted on it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the insufferable tankie types would drag Mamdani through the coals and call him a "social fascist".

 

[amadeus]

I wouldn't be surprised if the insufferable tankie types would drag Mamdani through the coals and call him a "social fascist".

If they were insufferable tankie types they would already be doing that.

 

[Angst]

I wouldn't be surprised if the insufferable tankie types would drag Mamdani through the coals and call him a "social fascist".

i can see this happening both from tankies and liberal media, bluntly. remember that big corps did not like mamdani winning. media (save fox, nyp) has been somewhat silent on mamdani after the victory. i think they're gaging whether the attacks are worth the optics, if they don't do enough

 

[Gori the Grey]

Though I'd be happy to concede this point, I doubt the spokesperson cared much for these distinctions. Otherwise you wouldn't be making excuses for these idiots.

Because the fact is, a bunch of people shouted nasty things (as was their right) at Jews whose desires about immigrating we don't know nor should we care, and the best the Mamdani camp comes up with is this "well maybe they have a point" both-sides-ing. What leadership.

When both sides are bad, maybe leadership involves saying as much. I myself am actually hungry for leaders who would see attempting to moderate extremism as part of their role.

We actually can care about whether churches are engaging in political activities; they can, in certain instances, lose their tax exempt status for that.

The other option is to put out a statement that favors one side or the other. Which of the two bad sides would you have liked to see him favor? would it have represented leadership for him to have favored?

***

In one way, Trump looked like Mamdani's inferior. He sat while Mamdani stood. I don't think Trump can stand for half an hour anymore. He sits at events where he previously used to stand.

Now, he arranges for them to be at the Resolute Desk. That's his power move at this point. But it's a second-best to the virility he used to like to display by standing. Hasn't had a rally since July; those require standing for over an hour. I think Trump is in poor health.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh dear ...

Mamdani isn't requiring NYC students to 'learn Arabic numerals.' They already do

You can't introduce something that has already been in use for centuries.

www.snopes.com

People are stupid.

 

[Samson]

Oh dear ...

Mamdani isn't requiring NYC students to 'learn Arabic numerals.' They already do

You can't introduce something that has already been in use for centuries.

www.snopes.com

People are stupid.

Do not americans still use roman numerals to go with their feet and gallons?

 

[Angst]

my ass here with my runes

 

[Sommerswerd]

Do not americans still use roman numerals to go with their feet and gallons?

For our beloved SuperBowls we do.

 

[Gori the Grey]

We use American numerals, thank you very much!