ZPNESVI Discussion Thread (Nesse)

[Circuit]

House Challoan agrees with the Dicchus, though we will defend ourselves if necessary.

War is not desirable at this point.

Just a side note, NESers seem to take a perverse pleasure in jumping into war at the first opportunity, which confirms my theory that NESing is ultimately a war game. No matter what Thlay may say about it.

OOC: Well, things can get boring, and a war is a good way to shake them up. I wanted a war in ABNW, but since I've been at war for longer than I've been at peace so far, I'm getting kind of tired of it.

 

[Seon]

you call this warmongering? Just take a look at Dominion NES

 

[Daftpanzer]

I am attempting to catch up with things here

@BananaLee, I take back anything I said about Biggus Dicchus!

Question about stats: are the +manpower, +wealth, etc. etc. compounded? In other words, if you have +wealth one turn and +wealth again the next, is that a net ++wealth?

I can't believe I never noticed I had a village... I feel so proud...

EDIT: pseudo-IC - and once again, the Orange Clan maintains that what Nesse calls "smuggling" is simply rightful trade, since the city relinquished control of the Exiles when they threw us out.

EDIT2: another question - are Assets introduced yet? Because I'd like to think my village/fort would count, somehow.

@orangelex44, the stats are what you have currently. But if you don't do anything and you have a steady income, then the wealth can increase. I haven't included 'Assets' yet but yes I think your fort would be counted there.

 

[erez87]

Alya in no way wishes for Nesse to attack a Cyrian army. But if worse comes to pass - we will have too.

 

[orangelex44]

Thanks a bunch.

 

[Thlayli]

OOC: If NESing is just a war game, than global (Earth) politics is just a war game too. As for me, it seems like most of the content in this NES deals with peace, not war.

IC: We base our assumptions on the knowledge we have gathered from the Hyksos. Additionally, we do not believe the noble citizens of Nesse should submit themselves to the inferior, if powerful, foreigners. Acknowledge their superiority for now, perhaps. But we cannot allow their troops on our lands.

 

[BananaLee]

@BananaLee, I take back anything I said about Biggus Dicchus!

I've been working my arse off over IM too, so you should get MSN yourself so I can bounce questions off you.

MODERATOR ANNOUNCEMENT

I will start the voting procedure in approximately 6 hours so if you have something to say, say so now or forever hold your peace.

 

[Anonymoose]

I'm really trying to figure out what the deal is with my MSN. It won't connect to the internet, but you'll be able to talk with the Drezden and the Trade Federation more efficiently if I can get on MSN and AIM instead of just AIM.

 

[BananaLee]

OOC: If NESing is just a war game, than global (Earth) politics is just a war game too. As for me, it seems like most of the content in this NES deals with peace, not war.

It's not. Because in real life, people don't just go to war 2 turns after the game starts. We've only done four turns, and one with a working system of government and a proportion of players are clamouring for war. The only reason why there is no war is because of the speed the Senate works.

EDIT: But I think this discussion should be brought to WWW or MSN.

 

[erez87]

not true. the world has been at war since civilization begun, and calculations of history show that there has been only like 31 years without war in all of history (or was it days?)...

 

[Circuit]

House Challoan:

4M1: Yes
4M2: Yes
4M3: Yes

4F2: We want friendly relations with the Cyrians, a "You don't bug us and we won't bug you" policy.
4F3: No. The Golden Tribe are barbarians, and should not be dealt with.

 

[Thlayli]

Either way, I don't think anyone is "clamoring for war" against the Cyrians, just saying that Nesse can only be pushed so far.

 

[erez87]

Either way, I don't think anyone is "clamoring for war" against the Cyrians, just saying that Nesse can only be pushed so far.

Exactly. Some of us prefer to die rather then surrender the city to anyone.

 

[BananaLee]

No one said anything about surrendering the city. The problem is the apparent implication that the situation is binary with the options: -

Fight to the death for FREEDOM!!!!!!!!oneoneone
and
Live under the Cyrian Çandal.

 

[erez87]

The Cyrians made it pretty clear in their diplomacy that if we do not agree to their rules - we won't be at peace...

We do hope they allow us to keep our own ways of government, and we will agree to pay them some tribute. For now. But if they force us to accept a despot - there is no other way but war.

 

[Thlayli]

What is to say that a new formal army of Nesse, allied with the Outlanders and even some Barbarians, cannot resist and even defeat the Cyrians?

They offer us wealth and power in return for submission. But the city of Nesse is above submission. The Horned King himself would open up the underworld to swallow us up if we abandon our mandate as the Chosen City.

 

[BananaLee]

We do hope they allow us to keep our own ways of government, and we will agree to pay them some tribute. For now. But if they force us to accept a despot - there is no other way but war.

I think you're preaching to the choir as far as that is concerned. All of us agree that the thing we cannot compromise on is their selection of our government and governors.

What is to say that a new formal army of Nesse, allied with the Outlanders and even some Barbarians, cannot resist and even defeat the Cyrians?

And what is to say we can? I'd rather not take a gamble (of unknown odds, might I add) if we don't have to.

 

[TaylorFlame]

I don't advocate war with the Cyrians, but damned if I'll submit to them. If there is a situation in which neither happens, then taking it would be the best option.

 

[BananaLee]

TURN 4 VOTING

Discussion has closed and the voting has begun. Your voting options are available with the topic and the code. Further details on each particular topic can be found here.

Thlayli will collate and compile the votes and provide status updates much as he did in the previous turns.

Voting will close in 24 hours from this post

One may ABSTAIN on all votes meaning they have no opinion.

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DOMESTIC ISSUES

• Funds for Sewer System (4D1)
  AYE - Incur a one-time levy on Nesse to fund the sewer system
  NAY - Do NOT incur a one-time levy on Nesse to fund the sewer system (Note: This means the sewer project will NOT happen as no funding alternatives have been proposed in discussion)
  
  
• Codification of Nesse Law (4D2)
  AYE (Archaic) - Write down Nesse Law in Archaic script ONLY
  AYE (Vulgar) - Write down Nesse Law in both Archaic script and Vulgar alphabetic script
  NAY - Leave the laws and customs as they are - unwritten
  
  
• Extension of Nesse Law and Custom to the Outlands (4D3)
  AYE - Accept the proposal as law (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint Magistrates for Uuta, Iaedos, and the general Outlands)
  NAY - The proposal does NOT become law
  
  
• The Exile Situation (4D4)
  LEGALISE CONTROLLED TRADE - Allows legalised trade between the Exiles and Nesse (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint an Élite Representative to hammer out details of such a treaty)
  LEGALISE FULL TRADE - Allows complete and 'uncontrolled' (i.e. they are considered Outlanders) trade between the Exile Isle and Nesse
  MAINTAIN STATUS QUO - Continue the treatment of all Exiles as outlaw and killable on sight
  CLAMP DOWN - Continue the outlawry of Exiles and ramp up the clamp down on Exiles (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint a War Leader - for lack of a better term - to organise the clamp down)

MILITARY ISSUES

• Creation of a Defensive Militia (4M1)
  AYE - Accept the proposal as law (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint War Leaders to organise the Militia)
  NAY - The proposal does NOT become law
  
  
• Creation of an Army of Nesse (4M2)
  AYE - Accept the proposal as law (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint War Leaders to organise the Army)
  NAY - The proposal does NOT become law
  
  
• Establishment of Fire Clan Fort (4M3)
  AYE -The Fire Clan is granted permission to construct a fort on the outskirts of Iaedos
  NAY - The Fire Clan is not allowed to construct the fort
  SPOIL VOTE - The Senate has no right to dictate what the Fire Clan can or cannot do

FOREIGN AFFAIRS

• Cyrian Tribute Mission (4F2)
  AGGRESSIVE - Send a Diplomatic Mission to the Cyrians with a rude rebuff and thus begin a war with Cyria (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint a Diplomatic Mission to send to Cyria)
  BUY TIME - Send a Diplomatic Mission to the Cyrians with tribute and a request to maintain our own way of life as suggested here, failing which a war will happen (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint a Diplomatic Mission to send to Cyria)
  GROVEL - Send a Diplomatic Mission to the Cyrians with tribute and full acceptance of their demands. (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint a Diplomatic Mission to send to Cyria)
  IGNORE - Ignore their message and execute their messenger
  
  
• Alliance with the Golden Tribe (4F3)
  AYE (Defensive) - Seek a defensive pact with the Golden Tribe. (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint a Diplomatic Mission to send to the Golden. Also note that because the Goldens are *already* fighting, this will draw us into war as well)
  AYE (Tacit Support) - Discuss covert methods of supporting the Golden Tribe in their fight such as weapons and "volunteers" - think Condor Legion. (Note: This grants the Moderator right to appoint a Diplomatic Mission to send to the Golden. Also note that Cyrian knowledge of Nesse involvement *may* draw us into a war.)
  NAY - Do not send a diplomatic mission to the Golden Tribe.

 

[BananaLee]

House Dicchus - Voting

• 4D1 - Aye
• 4D2 - Aye (Archaic)
• 4D3 - Aye
• 4D4 - Maintain Status Quo
  
• 4M1 - Aye
• 4M2 - Aye
• 4M3 - Aye
  
• 4F2 - Buy Time
• 4F3 - Aye (Tacit Support)