ZPNESVI: Nesse, the Chosen City

[Justo]

Justo Clan Orders
The Justo Clan will continue to send its warband against the Wolf Barbarians if the war continues.

If peace is made the Justo Clan will consolidate new lands gained and seek to increase the size of its flocks.

Efforts will be made to increase the sale of Wool, Meat and Goats Milk both to the city of Nesse and to any passerby's if the Justo Clan finds itself at peace.

Efforts will be made to increase the Justo Clans cooperation with other Outlander clans. If any barbarian tribe or invading army attacks an Outlander clan the Justo Clans Elite Slingers will assist them.

The Justo Clan is for the idea of Nesse army however Outlanders should not be required to serve this army. Outlanders do not require training and have a history of supporting the Elite Clans in their actions regardless.

Diplomacy
To: Hippus Clan

The Justo Clan supports the Hippus Clan in retaining Outlander independence.

 

[Circuit]

From Challoan Clan
To Wolf Barbs

You have fought well, and we are indeed impressed. We are willing to allow your tribe to live. Let us sign a peace agreement, in which you will renounce all claims to our newly-acquired lands and pay us a protection fee and we will not destroy your tribe.

 

[c&cciv3]

From the Stonehide Clan
To the House Tuxenius.

We have heard you are in need metal for your craft. We willing to supply you for a fair price which includes any replacement tools we need, small amount of gold and on occasion a hand full of swords.

To the Hippus Clan

The Stonehide Clan also support your clan in retaining Outlander independence.

 

[Vertinari118]

Bear Clan Orders

Pledge every man and woman of the clan between the ages of 16 and 50 to form the core of any new army or militia. We will donate half the land this gets us to widows and orphans and sell the other half. Duric Ursus, the current leader of the clan, will apply to be the commanding officer of the Bear Clan section of the army.

Using our new-found wealth from the raids on the Golden Tribe and the sale of land we shall buy better equipment for our soldiers.

We shall assist in any further military action undertaken by the Senate.

 

[Thlayli]

From: House Ìademos
To: The Alya Clan

We offered to carry a message to the Wolf Barbarians, to carry YOUR diplomacy to them. We are envoys, and indeed we can serve as diplomats. We do not make the diplomacy of the Elite Clans, and we did not carry any messages without first consulting the Elites.

We are shamed that you would presume our disobedience.

 

[germanicus12]

To Fire Clan
From the Clan of Wolves

Yes you did charge the capital, but what did you get out of it? Nothing more than weapons and armor. Where is the gold? The women? The slaves? It is still a loss, as your objective was to destroy the Wolf Tribe, you failed, sure their capital may be gone, but they still have their gold, they still have their army, they still have their weapons and armor (those still alive). Even we cannot decide if we want to continue the war or sue for peace, we are not sure if the victory was decisive enough.

I am not saying we had a victory as well, even though we accomplished our objectives, we raided their villages and looted Gold, Women and Slaves, it was unfortunate we had to encounter the Golden Tribe on the way back to Nesse, but all things considering we did better than the Fire Clan did.

 

[erez87]

From: House Ìademos
To: The Alya Clan

We offered to carry a message to the Wolf Barbarians, to carry YOUR diplomacy to them. We are envoys, and indeed we can serve as diplomats. We do not make the diplomacy of the Elite Clans, and we did not carry any messages without first consulting the Elites.

We are shamed that you would presume our disobedience.

We are not entertained. Do not lie. Alya never sent any message to anyone through you. We only requested you as scribes. Not the the wolf barbs and especially not to the Hyksoz.
No elite sent a message to the Hyksoz. How did you get to send diplomatic messages to them if it wasn't out of your own idea?

You better be shamed. We will not say this again, you are new comers from the sea empire. You may not know the rules of the city yet but do not over step your boudries again. At the current situation of Nesse, only elites have the power to make diplomacy with other nations and realms.

 

[andis-1]

From: Lucan Family
To: Elites of the City, on the issue of taxes

Our noble lords, we have only one thing to say; Something must be done to the taxes and gatetolls, as they are strangling our trade to death. Because of the taxes, the seafaring people of the north are not returning to us with their sacks of gold to purchase goods, and now wine and dyes filll the corners of our houses, unused or sold for few meashly coppers. All the wealth we could generate by selling the products of our hard labor now go to waste in some distant lands while they could be filling our coffers. This is why we plea you Elites, reduce the taxes, the tolls, or all our trade will die. And that would also mean no taxes for you anymore...

 

[Ninja Dude]

From: House Ìademos
To: The Alya Clan

We offered to carry a message to the Wolf Barbarians, to carry YOUR diplomacy to them. We are envoys, and indeed we can serve as diplomats. We do not make the diplomacy of the Elite Clans, and we did not carry any messages without first consulting the Elites.

We are shamed that you would presume our disobedience.

The Ninticus Clan also shows its disaproval towards the Alya Clan. Right after reprimanding House Iademos they over step their own boundries and attempt to carry out a diplomatic mission without first consulting the gate-keepers of Ninticus.

From Challoan Clan
To Wolf Barbs

You have fought well, and we are indeed impressed. We are willing to allow your tribe to live. Let us sign a peace agreement, in which you will renounce all claims to our newly-acquired lands and pay us a protection fee and we will not destroy your tribe.

Your diplomacy has been permitted to reach the Wolf Barbarians. It is clear that the majority of Nesse wants peace with them.

From: House Ìademos
To: House Ninticus

We request permission to send some envoys to live among the Hyksoz for a time. They can teach us the southern languages we do not already know, and we may learn something of the Cyrians.

Also, even in defeat the Hyksos have trained soldiers, and we believe that we might convince them to ally with Nesse.

Permission granted.

to House Ìademos
from Alya
Refrain from sending diplomatic messages to outsiders next time. It is an extreme step out of your boundaries.


to Horned clan
from Alya
Refrain from attacking elite clans. Continue with your own job as religious men and do not over step your boundaries again.


to Fighting elites
from Alya
Please do not argue or attack each other. The city needs both clans in the near future as coming battles arrive upon our city.

to Challoan
Please do not forget of the wolf barbs. Begin diplomacy now so peace and tribute will soon come to our city.



to Sea Empire
from Alya and Nesse.
Why do you threaten our fair and peaceful city? We are aware of the empire's might but we will not accept threats upon our great city. We understand that you fear us and our possible future navy and we prefer to sign a deal with the sea empire rather then accept threats or fight the sea empire.
Our offer is this:
*Nesse will only build trade ships.
*The Sea empire will protect Nesse trade ships and in return, as long as the sea empire protects the ships, Nesse will not build even a single warship.
If this cannot be agreed upon then Nesse will have to protect its own trade ships. But trade ships we will build. Nesse is allowed to commence in trade just as much as the sea empire is.

to Golden barbs
from Alya and Nesse
The might of the wolf clan as shown itself to you. Yes they have lost the battle but you have seen how much damage they can bring upon your tribes with only a small number of troops. Imagine what they can do with the support of most of Nesse elites.
We suggest a simple statues-quo between our realms.

We believe that the Sea Kingdom issue needs to be discussed a little more before sending a message to them. Speaking on behalf of all of Nesse is a rather high-and-mighty action seeing as how this topic hasn't even been discussed in too much depth. Thus, we are refusing your diplomatic mission to the Sea Kingdom.

We do however, allow your mission to the Golden Barbarians. Perhaps it will make them think a little more about whether they would want to attack us or not.

They are scribes. Not diplomats. Their attempts at constantly stepping out of the boundaries of their jobs is becoming irritating. Nesse is not a democracy yet and as it seems the Scribes do not want it to be one demanding rights of rule but also demanding it will not be given to other Nessers.

Diplomacy with the empires and nations of outside must be carried by chosen messengers and not freely by anyone who wishes so - otherwise Nesse will fall into anarchy and disappear as each man would form his own nation and city within Nesse.

That is why the Ninticus Clan is here. We regulate who sends what messages to foreigners. And not just the Nessers and Outlanders. We intend on holding these regulations to the other Elites as well.

 

[Thlayli]

From: House Iademos
To: Clan Alya

Allow us to pose you a question. Did we carry diplomacy to the Wolves? Or did we ask Elite permission to do so? Did we propose our own terms, or the terms upon which the Elites agreed? The Ninticus have already chastised us for appoaching the Hyksoz, but we viewed this as part of our function as assistants to the gatekeepers. We have apologized for this.

We shall state this again. We do not make diplomacy, we convey it. How can you forge a treaty without a scribe? We serve the Elites and this fair city.

 

[erez87]

From: Lucan Family
To: Elites of the City, on the issue of taxes

Our noble lords, we have only one thing to say; Something must be done to the taxes and gatetolls, as they are strangling our trade to death. Because of the taxes, the seafaring people of the north are not returning to us with their sacks of gold to purchase goods, and now wine and dyes filll the corners of our houses, unused or sold for few meashly coppers. All the wealth we could generate by selling the products of our hard labor now go to waste in some distant lands while they could be filling our coffers. This is why we plea you Elites, reduce the taxes, the tolls, or all our trade will die. And that would also mean no taxes for you anymore...

from Alya
Even thought we were the ones to raise merchant taxes we most agree with the Lucans that we made a mistake. It seems the high gate tolls and taxes on trade brought trade into a halt. the Sea empire is quickly moving to other routes and others do so as well. Even our own people can barely trade now.

Now since only taxes are truly under elite rule - we will put forwards a vote to lower taxes and vote yes.
As for the gate tolls, while it is under vote I believe we could not force the gate keepers to lower the tolls or extinguish them. And so we declare now that we are creating a market outside the city walls, in the new neighborhoods. We are also preparing for the construction of a new dock out of the walls, away from the gatekeepers tolls. We invite all merchants and traders to use this new toll-free market and small port to do their business in and we will handle pulling resources into the city and out of it as no gate keeper will risk an inner Nesse war to take high tolls from one of the elites of the city.

 

[erez87]

From: House Iademos
To: Clan Alya

Allow us to pose you a question. Did we carry diplomacy to the Wolves? Or did we ask Elite permission to do so? Did we propose our own terms, or the terms upon which the Elites agreed? The Ninticus have already chastised us for appoaching the Hyksoz, but we viewed this as part of our function as assistants to the gatekeepers. We have apologized for this.

We shall state this again. We do not make diplomacy, we convey it. How can you forge a treaty without a scribe? We serve the Elites and this fair city.

We are not talking of the wolves.

You have carried messages to the Hyksoz. That is where our irritation arrives from.
We are not angry with you. Or anything of the like. Just displeased that a Nesser sends diplomacy out of the city on his own free will. Very displeasing.


to the gate keepers:
We have discussed about the diplomacy to the sea empire with other elites. What could the rich from tolls gate keepers could offer into the discussion? Go and get your tolls. You do not regulate Alya and if you think you do, think again, we will not stay within city walls as long as you gate keepers terrorize our clan and others who wish to go in and out.
Silly.
Our diplomacy to the sea empire will go as we please after we have agreed with the other diplomatic elite we will handle it. We are also the ones wanting to build a navy to begin with, and so their diplomacy is technically to us. Move out of our way or we will use our guards with our messengers.

 

[Ninja Dude]

The Ninticus Clan is planning, like we have already said before, to lower taxes. We don't believe such drastic actions are necessary. Because while this solution may rid us of the problem of stimulating trade, the tariff-free trade would allow merchants to bypass the Elites and aquire so much wealth that they may become more powerful then them. They would become the new rulers of the city, basing their actions off of profit and wealth instead of morals and duties.

 

[erez87]

The Ninticus Clan is planning, like we have already said before, to lower taxes. We don't believe such drastic actions are necessary. Because while this solution may rid us of the problem of stimulating trade, the tariff-free trade would allow merchants to bypass the Elites and aquire so much wealth that they may become more powerful then them. They would become the new rulers of the city, basing their actions off of profit and wealth instead of morals and duties.

Then your troops should be the ones insuring no rich fat people try to take over the city. Are you only toll takers? or gate keepers and defenders of Nesse?
Silly silly.

Besides the talks are of lowered taxes, not none. Lower them so merchants could trade well, not as much to let them go wild.

 

[Ninja Dude]

You have carried messages to the Hyksoz. That is where our irritation arrives from.
We are not angry with you. Or anything of the like. Just displeased that a Nesser sends diplomacy out of the city on his own free will. Very displeasing.

They asked for permission to carry a message to them. It was approved by an Elite clan. Where is the problem in this? We already reprimanded them for going abroad without permission already, and we believe that they have learned their lesson.

We have discussed about the diplomacy to the sea empire with other elites. What could the rich from tolls gate keepers could offer into the discussion?

All you discussed was that they shouldn't dictate what we do at sea. However, we never talked about them protecting our ships, and while the general opinion amongst us is that we should still be allowed trade ships, it is rather foolsih to be making deals without consulting the other Elites. Treaties and pacts should be layed out before the Senate and discussed and revised to ensure that it is truely what is best for our city.

You do not regulate Alya and if you think you do, think again, we will not stay within city walls as long as you gate keepers terrorize our clan and others who wish to go in and out.

We regulate EVERYONE who passes these gates. It's our duty, our life-style, our way of making a living. We protect Nesse from those decietful Exiles and other unclean foreigners who wish to taint Nesse with their uncivilized behavior. We regulate trade, making sure our local traders have an edge over foreign ones. (having lower taxes on local traders basically) We do not terrorize. We are simply doing our job, and if you have a problem with out management of the gates, then you are free to leave the city. We won't stop you.

Our diplomacy to the sea empire will go as we please after we have agreed with the other diplomatic elite we will handle it. We are also the ones wanting to build a navy to begin with, and so their diplomacy is technically to us. Move out of our way or we will use our guards with our messengers.

All messages in or out of Nesse must first go through us. No ifs, ands, or buts. If we say something isn't getting through, it isn't getting through. Just please lay out your message in the Senate and ensure that the majority of the Elite Clans approve of it and don't wish to make any amendments to it. Once you do that, we will be perfectly fine with letting you send a message to the Sea Kingdom.

 

[Vertinari118]

How do they defend against political influence and wealth might we ask? Are they now the taxman to come and arbitrarily take wealth from the rich? Are they suppose to imprison clans who have too much influence? You are the one who speaks nonsense leader of the Alya Clan not the gatekeepers.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Then your troops should be the ones insuring no rich fat people try to take over the city. Are you only toll takers? or gate keepers and defenders of Nesse?

We are toll takers and gate-keepers, for the two go hand-in hand. If we did not collect tolls we wouldn't be able to hire guards and maintain our walls and gates. And thus the whole city would be at risk. Think about things speak.

Besides the talks are of lowered taxes, not none. Lower them so merchants could trade well, not as much to let them go wild.

we are creating a market outside the city walls, in the new neighborhoods. We are also preparing for the construction of a new dock out of the walls, away from the gatekeepers tolls. We invite all merchants and traders to use this new toll-free market

Hmmm..... That sertaionly doesn't sound like "just lowered taxes".

We are fully in favor of lowering taxes, as you have said before. No taxes would be utterly and completely rediculous. Therefor we thank the alya Clan for their insight and we will be sure to adjust our tolls so that merchants may trade more freely in our fair city.

 

[erez87]

They asked for permission to carry a message to them. It was approved by an Elite clan. Where is the problem in this? We already reprimanded them for going abroad without permission already, and we believe that they have learned their lesson.

That is a lie.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8591298&postcount=503
First the Hyksoz answer their diplomacy.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8591322&postcount=504
Only then they ask for being allowed to move out.

All you discussed was that they shouldn't dictate what we do at sea. However, we never talked about them protecting our ships, and while the general opinion amongst us is that we should still be allowed trade ships, it is rather foolsih to be making deals without consulting the other Elites. Treaties and pacts should be layed out before the Senate and discussed and revised to ensure that it is truely what is best for our city.

I am well aware of that. But you are warriors not diplomats. When a city state as Nesse and an empire with an unknown force use diplomacy, they must agree upon things. We believe that in order to make sure our sea is safe and at the same time not annoy the empire of the north we could deal with them peacefully gaining their protection for our fleet (which will belong to Alya clan, so we are allowed to use whatever defenders we pleas, we are paying for it) in return for us not threatening their might.
See? It is simple.

We regulate EVERYONE who passes these gates. It's our duty, our life-style, our way of making a living. We protect Nesse from those decietful Exiles and other unclean foreigners who wish to taint Nesse with their uncivilized behavior. We regulate trade, making sure our local traders have an edge over foreign ones. (having lower taxes on local traders basically) We do not terrorize. We are simply doing our job, and if you have a problem with out management of the gates, then you are free to leave the city. We won't stop you.

Indeed. The Alya will make sure the toll takers won't be dictating us or other elites and Nessers. If we must we will also use force. The Ninticus are not above the others as to dictate the city as they see fit.
We are moving out of the walls, including our messengers. Our base of operations will be in the new neighborhoods that are currently not walled. And we insure you - they will be walled and when new gates are built, the Alya will be the ones protecting its people. We take no tolls and let all non threatening people pass. We do not dictate to others what to do.

All messages in or out of Nesse must first go through us. No ifs, ands, or buts. If we say something isn't getting through, it isn't getting through. Just please lay out your message in the Senate and ensure that the majority of the Elite Clans approve of it and don't wish to make any amendments to it. Once you do that, we will be perfectly fine with letting you send a message to the Sea Kingdom.

Our messengers live outside the walls. They do not pass you silly gate keepers.

 

[Thlayli]

If the exile smugglers were punished and their ports destroyed, trade revenues would increase, and import duties could be reduced.

 

[erez87]

How do they defend against political influence and wealth might we ask? Are they now the taxman to come and arbitrarily take wealth from the rich? Are they suppose to imprison clans who have too much influence? You are the one who speaks nonsense leader of the Alya Clan not the gatekeepers.

They have claimed rich families will take over the city. In order to take over a city one must use an army and troops. I believe the toll takers can protect us from those. Unless their just toll takers?

We are toll takers and gate-keepers, for the two go hand-in hand. If we did not collect tolls we wouldn't be able to hire guards and maintain our walls and gates. And thus the whole city would be at risk. Think about things speak.



Hmmm..... That sertaionly doesn't sound like "just lowered taxes".

We are fully in favor of lowering taxes, as you have said before. No taxes would be utterly and completely rediculous. Therefor we thank the alya Clan for their insight and we will be sure to adjust our tolls so that merchants may trade more freely in our fair city.

Strange. Alya does not take tolls from anyone and yet we brought the largest force to the war against the wolf barbs. How can we have soldiers without being leeches upon the community while the toll takers cannot? Isn't it strange? Why the politician can pay for his own troops, but the soldiers can't?

AGAIN. We are speaking of no tolls. Taxes will continue to exist, and will continue to arrive to the elite clans of the city as they always have since the king was deposed. They will be lowered to allow the merchants to survive, but they will obviously continue to exist.

Tolls are useless and only enrich the toll takers of the Ninticus - that barely do their job with all the assassination going around the city. What are those tolls for? Buying yourself more wine? Cancel the tolls and pay for your own troops - just like Alya. You don't do your job well anyway.