Éa, The Ageless and the Divine (phase 2, alpha)

[400cats]

I'm traveling this week so I don't have time to put up a detailed post, but here's a lua.log from a Immortal 200-turn game I played as the Aldebar Sidhe (aka Agrarian Traditional Slaver Sidhe Bastards From Hell). The conditions for Agrarianism and Slavery were... not optimal to say the least, and I didn't have much experience with the Slavery branch so I bungled it. Notes:

-When I had 2 Unhappiness, all my 3 cities got a +2p bonus each; it wasn't divided among them.
-Warriors with the Slave promotion can't be sold (not sure if intentional)
-I was making the Grimnisnal Epic with an Artist, and suddenly halfway through I wasn't making it anymore and it said another civ was working on it
-Slavery is really fun but also really evil

And from some other games:
-A civ with no elephants for a 5-tile radius around the capital beelined for Ab
-On Immortal, A civ founded Ys on Turn 14 (they weren't messing around)
-The Apothecary is described as giving +2s, but the visual chart next to it says +2%s
-The Pagan Cults don't give any bonuses or do anything besides give the Druid the special skill (I could be missing it)
-6-movement Horse Archers (4+Ride Like the Wind) can hit-and-run through jungles

v11 is good stuff all around!

 

[Pazyryk]

v11.a
BUG: if a worker is sleeping in a city completing the construction of a workboat, this will fail (will test if it is the same for hunter).

Fixed in v12 for fishing boats, whaling boats and hunters. Problem is that damn 1upt rule for civilians (which is stupid and the first thing I will change in the dll when I get to that). But I solved it for now by making these units DOMAIN_AIR so no 1upt rule (doesn't change anything you can see in the game).

BUG: garrisoned units under Military Tradition only provide +1 happy if they are in the capital (the no maintenance works in any city)

That's a base bug that I forgot about for the xml tag. Base game Military Castes hasn't worked for >1 year I think. I'll either code this via Lua for v12 or change the policy effect.

-I'm not sure but I don't think the initial and subsequent bonus of free units for the Militarism branch works. Edit: it's working sorry, I was reading the total unit number as only military.

As I said in a post above, I don't really have any clue about the size of the effect. Let me know if the effect seems too great.

-Mayd still not working

It just worked for me in a test. You have to wait until the next turn to get the trait. Also, whaling boats don't count. (And in v12, fishing boats on lakes won't count, but will in v11.) Post a savegame if you see a violation of this.

-got Lua error when I finished a research and a Sage was working on research

Fixed in v12

-I'm getting disease non stop in the capital, what am I doing wrong? Is it connected with my frenzy forest chopping to prevent forests from swalling my country?

No effect from forests: only population and health buildings matter. The rule is 1% chance per turn per population point above size 10. Extra pop is allowed by buildings that provide Health: Aqueduct (+4), Public Baths (2), Sewers (6), Hospital (6), Apothecary (2). Once disease gets started, it will knock down 1 population/turn for some random number of turns (1 to 2/3 of your city size iirc).

You should notice that, even with a lot of disease, cities spring back pretty fast. The mod does something very different than base, which is that 1 pop growth always costs the same amount of food regardless of present city size. That means a big city can get bigger very fast. But disease/plague kicks in as the limiter for a city that has tons of food and no health buildings.

Another Lua error...quite a few in there, most notifications went away after one turn.

All same error. There is something I don't understand about barbs capturing workers. For everyone else, the capture unit is a Slave, which is then deleted if you don't have Slavery policy. Barbs are also supposed to capture workers, slaves or setters as slaves, but for some reason that isn't happening. Workers stay worker and I'm not sure what happens to a captured settler. Mod code throws an error because it doesn't expect this. For now, I've disabled the code generating the error message (in v12), even though I still don't understand what is going on...

 

[Vinnz]

Playing pacific dagoo
lua error on turn 199 (did not show up on the next turns) :" attempt to index field 'gpScience' (a nil value)"

also,
- whaling and fishing boats can claim unexplored ressource tiles (which lead to discovery of the nearby rock of gibraltar). Is it intended ?
- the tome of leviathan did not provide the +2 science on whales

Generally, the v11a (first time I play since v9) feels more stable than previous versions. Good work!

 

[onedreamer]

That's a base bug that I forgot about for the xml tag. Base game Military Castes hasn't worked for >1 year I think. I'll either code this via Lua for v12 or change the policy effect.

hmm strange I normally use it in vanilla, odd that I didn't notice. I'll double check.
edit: double checked, works correctly even in puppet cities. Actually I've never seen it not working.

As I said in a post above, I don't really have any clue about the size of the effect. Let me know if the effect seems too great.

not sure yet, but it certainly doesn't seem too small atm. The military branch does seem quite interesting now. Next I think I will test slavery.

No effect from forests: only population and health buildings matter. The rule is 1% chance per turn per population point above size 10. Extra pop is allowed by buildings that provide Health: Aqueduct (+4), Public Baths (2), Sewers (6), Hospital (6), Apothecary (2). Once disease gets started, it will knock down 1 population/turn for some random number of turns (1 to 2/3 of your city size iirc).

there's something wrong with this then. IIRC the city was pop 10 or 11 when it started but the subsequent times (two or three times per about 2-3 turns each) it was well under ten.

You should notice that, even with a lot of disease, cities spring back pretty fast. The mod does something very different than base, which is that 1 pop growth always costs the same amount of food regardless of present city size. That means a big city can get bigger very fast. But disease/plague kicks in as the limiter for a city that has tons of food and no health buildings.

it does spring back fast... but I got disease at least 3 times in a row. In that case it's not very fast I didn't have tons of food btw. I had 3 pearls, a cow, a deer and a horse. That's it (no farms).


I have to add that at a certain point in my game the game hanged at the barbarian turn (nice feature of G&K to know whos turn) and all my ten autosaves were corrupted (the usual error that it doesn't load your tables). Only a save in steam cloud about a dozeen turns earlier works.
Note that in my game no AI has built any ranged (only siege), about turn 220.

 

[Pazyryk]

-When I had 2 Unhappiness, all my 3 cities got a +2p bonus each; it wasn't divided among them.

Fixed

-Warriors with the Slave promotion can't be sold (not sure if intentional)

Intended

-I was making the Grimnisnal Epic with an Artist, and suddenly halfway through I wasn't making it anymore and it said another civ was working on it

I couldn't find problem, and don't see anything special for that particular Epic. Another player can jump in if you interrupt a unique build for one turn, so maybe that happened? If not, just keep an eye out for this kind of problem.

-Slavery is really fun but also really evil

-A civ with no elephants for a 5-tile radius around the capital beelined for Ab

It's possible because there is some weak weighting given for resources all the way out to 10 radius. But anything else closer should dominate. I'll adjust if this happens frequently.

-The Apothecary is described as giving +2s, but the visual chart next to it says +2%s

Fixed

-The Pagan Cults don't give any bonuses or do anything besides give the Druid the special skill (I could be missing it)

They don't do much now. For that matter, Mana and Divine Favor are kind of pointless right now. All of this will matter in phase 3 with many new spells to use up that mana or divine favor working toward victory conditions.

Playing pacific dagoo
lua error on turn 199 (did not show up on the next turns) :" attempt to index field 'gpScience' (a nil value)"

- the tome of leviathan did not provide the +2 science on whales

Fixed & fixed.

- whaling and fishing boats can claim unexplored ressource tiles (which lead to discovery of the nearby rock of gibraltar). Is it intended ?

Intended... I guess. If you own the plot then adjacent plots will always be visible.

hmm strange I normally use it in vanilla, odd that I didn't notice. I'll double check.
edit: double checked, works correctly even in puppet cities. Actually I've never seen it not working.

Bah! The mod's policy has HappinessPerGarrisonedUnit = 1 in the database just like the base game Military Castes policy. There were some changes to the garrison system way back (pre-G&K iirc) and I do remember it not working for some time after the patch. I suspect they broke the xml tag and then re-added the effect in a hard-coded way in the dll. Not fixed for v12 but on my list...

there's something wrong with this then. IIRC the city was pop 10 or 11 when it started but the subsequent times (two or three times per about 2-3 turns each) it was well under ten.

Oops! Was quoting game mechanics from memory. It's 1% per pop point above 5 for getting disease and 1% per pop point above 10 for getting plague. The 5 and 10 are both adjusted up by health buildings. Both knock down pop by one point per turn for a random number of turns between 1 and 2/3 of city size. There is no actual difference between disease and plague (yet), but you are in "double jeopardy" at larger sizes: e.g., size 12 with no health building would have 2% chance for plague and then, if that doesn't happen, 7% chance for disease. (Plague will have a chance to "travel around" later.)

City sizes are generally bigger than my initial intention for the mod. A consequence is that disease/plague is more common than it should be. For v12 I'm going to kick down growth rate some (more food needed for each growth point) but also increase the 5 & 10 above to 7 & 12 so two extra points of size without disease/plague. I'm also changing the run time to a max of 1/3 of city size for disease (plague still 2/3).

I have to add that at a certain point in my game the game hanged at the barbarian turn (nice feature of G&K to know whos turn) and all my ten autosaves were corrupted (the usual error that it doesn't load your tables). Only a save in steam cloud about a dozeen turns earlier works.

Some weirdness happening in barb turn that I don't understand. I'm disabling some error catching code that won't necessarily solve the problem, but at least will quiet down the error messages. (I'm not really sure if this will make things better or worse.)

Note that in my game no AI has built any ranged (only siege), about turn 220.

Some civs will go for Archery but many won't. So this is possible. The "peaceful" AIs will all try to get at least one military tech giving them a tier 2 unit. They decide which one based on whether they were going to get that tech anyway in their peaceful plan, and if not, then based on nearby resource distribution. There are weightings in this so I can boost up the likelihood for Archery a little.

 

[Pazyryk]

v12 will be out in the morning sometime, after I do some testing. I didn't realize that many of the promotion lines weren't hooked up (Flanking, Fortification, Raider, etc.). All of these should be working in v12.

 

[onedreamer]

Some weirdness happening in barb turn that I don't understand. I'm disabling some error catching code that won't necessarily solve the problem, but at least will quiet down the error messages. (I'm not really sure if this will make things better or worse.)

I didn't get any error, the game hanged and I had to terminate it through task manager.
But the worst part is autosaves not working. From a certain point on they stop working or if they work they give errors anyways. It might be from when you become a named civ, not sure.

 

[Pazyryk]

I didn't get any error, the game hanged and I had to terminate it through task manager.
But the worst part is autosaves not working. From a certain point on they stop working or if they work they give errors anyways. It might be from when you become a named civ, not sure.

Post Lua.log when you see these problems in v12. Hanged game is possibly an infinite Lua loop. So far, all CTDs reported with Lua.log have been due to computer graphic limitations, and also that Civ5 seems to accumulate graphic resources it doesn't need (exiting Civ5 fully and restarting may help with this).

Data corruption for Autosaves is another problem. The mod saves all its data at the beginning of the barb turn. But autosave happens after barb turn. And there is no way for me to intercept before that happens, so data gets corrupted (more so later in the game). There is a possible fix for this. But it involves some coding and then players having to change a setting in config.ini, so I've been reluctant to try it.


Edit: OK, I think I might have solution for Autosaves. If everything works right you should see "Autosave_Ea Turn ##" in v12 and (hopefully) the corruption issue fixed.

 

[onedreamer]

Slavery doesn't buy me. It adds several buildings, but they are costly in production, so you don't get much (let's say almost nothing) until you spend production in the buildings. Not sure the AI will cope well with this, too. Perhaps make it a single building enabled by the starter, like the slave trade square, to which you can add "expansions" which cost much less in production.

Can you explain the leadership promotions, cos I don't quite get it. Doesn't seem very useful if it has an effect at all. For example what is the "effectiveness of the leader"?

Cult of Aegir: you might want to rethink this, because I don't think it's possible to have 70% plots in water for a city with the changes you made to water expansion. Or does it count plots that would be in the radius without changes?
Cult of Pure Waters: gives bonus to lakes but you can't have lakes. Unless you still think to bring to life the floating gardens.

Axagoria: the bonus is half of total happy not half of extra happy as described in the manual. WAD?

Scouts: currently the whole scout line is quite pointless. Consider giving them some peculiar promotion.

 

[Pazyryk]

Éa II, v12 available from the OP (will break saves)

I updated the Manual too. Has new military unit promotion info and random corrections here and there.

I'll be on the road for the next 5 days, so probably not online much. Go ahead and post bugs/logs/comments. I'll catch up eventually.

• Added The Arts process [hotfix 11a]
• Added Azzandara's Tribute process
• Added Ahrimans's Tribute process
• More changes to the way cities handle special yields added by the mod (safer for city conquest).
• Improvements to City Yield and Top Panel UI for indicating sources of culture, mana & divine favor.
• Naphtha now gives +1g for Marketplace like all other resources
• Lowered city bonus for siege line; now +100% (great bombard), +0% (ballistae), +50% (all others)
• Fixed Revelry spell
• AI spellcasters can now learn new spells. They will pick based on their own specialization (Combat, Terraforming, etc.)
• Can't cast Bloom on a city or an improved plot
• AI now gets free techs based on handicap level. The number is same as base (1-4 for difficulties King-Deity, respectively) but they are given at turn 50, 100, 150, 200 until all given. This number of techs is also KM free for AI.
• AIGrowthPercent in the handicaps table is now given as a bonus for AI city health
• Food required for city growth bumped from 100 to 150f
• City size can be 2 larger now before chance of disease/plague
• Disease runs half as long as before (now random from 1 to 1/3 city size); plague still 1 to 2/3 city size
• Fixed amount of production distribution from unhappiness for Slave Castes (was too high)
• Tome of Leviathan now gives +2s from improved Whales as intended
• Fixed help texts for Apothecary, Temple and all health buildings
• Major fixes to unit promotions; Fortification, Siege, Flanking, Naval and Raider should all be working as documented.
• Great Bombarde becomes range 3 automatically at level 5 (the next turn actually)
• Recon have 3 promotions they can earn (in addition to the Combat series): Survivalism (+5% healing, +10% defense); Eagle Eyes (+1 vision); Path Finder (ignores terrain movement cost). This is a series with each one requiring the one before. They all transfer on upgrade, for example if your rangers upgrade to marksmen.
• Major changes to autosave system. The mod now runs its own autosave function at the beginning of the human player turn (after pre-turn game logic), instead of at end of barb turn as in base. This may or may not clear up a number of problems.

 

[onedreamer]

Version 12:
- Savegame system is fubar. Some games can't be saved in any way (I can save them, but can't reload), be autosave, normal or steam save. Some other games have no problem... this happens from turn 0 so it might be at game/map creation.
- Flanking promotion says +20% flanking attack per level. However this percentage is not added in absolute to the base flanking bonus but calculated as a percentage bonus to the percentage bonus. If this is WAD, the promotion is a bit crappy since you get in normal situations less than 10% bonus with 2 promotions and only on flanking attacks.
- I suspect Isallin unique ability doesn't work. I am not 100% sure yet because the instability of the game doesn't let me test thoroughly, but at least the culture bonus is not there.
- Still hangs (no crash) at barbarian turn, but it was actually my turn already. Might be something connected to portraits. I have had crashes in v11 right clicking GPs to show stats/age (and portrait).

Spoiler :

[27213.079] EaMain: ------------------------ New turn for player 0, Isällin (Man), Leader: No Leader ------------------------
[27213.079] EaMain: UnitPerCivTurn
[27213.079] EaMain: Running ResetUnitAttackAtRiskPerson 0
[27213.079] EaMain: UpdateAllArtifacts
[27213.079] EaMain: CityPerCivTurn; City info (Name/Size/BuildQueue):
[27213.079] EaMain: totalHealth = 12
[27213.079] EaMain: totalHealth = 12
[27213.079] EaMain: Sorted city sizes:
[27213.079] EaMain: 6
[27213.079] EaMain: 2
[27213.079] EaMain: PolicyPerCivTurn 0
[27213.079] EaMain: Level / policies / change / pop turns: 4.4048915891705 4 0.03443450502554 684
[27213.079] EaMain: TechPerCivTurn
[27213.079] EaMain: CivPerCivTurn
[27213.079] EaMain: Adding GP points for specialists
[27213.079] EaMain: TestAllTraits
[27213.079] EaMain: PeoplePerCivTurn
[27213.079] EaMain: CalculateGPSpawnChance
[27213.079] EaMain: GP chance, dice, class points: 30 7 92 25 32 1 50
[27213.079] EaMain: GenerateGreatPerson 0 nil nil nil
[27213.079] EaMain: ResetAgeOfDeath
[27213.079] EaMain: Running ShowPortrait
[27213.079] EaMain: Scaling image TextBox Harbarth_Ligeti_0.84_700x856.dds 4
[27213.079] EaMain: Image700x856 700 833 0 44 734 1025 0 0

 

[MrL567]

Been using one of the new production converters in my first game with the new version. I am glad we can get more science cause I enjoy playing the science game to get more stuff to build. Can't wait to get the policy to convert production into culture. Over all the converters work really well.

 

[onedreamer]

Finally got a game with working save process, so even after that hang I could continue. Turn 240 now.

- you gave ranged units a further 20% bonus in defense without lowering their combat strength? O.o
- The +1p bonus from Tome of Metallurgy is not cumulative with the +2 of smithy, the highest applies.
- knackery and other such buildings don't stack. It is in conflict with tannery and stables (which do stack).
- confirmed that Isallin unique ability doesn't work.
- Holy Order ability to spawn Paladins doesn't work (or they aren't in yet)

more as I playtest...

 

[hix]

Is it too early for a strategy guide? Probably, but this is the best way I can think of to give you an idea of how games are going for me.

Build order: scout, monument, worker or work boat, warrior, settler, archer

Tech order: lux, archery, lux, horse archery or bowyers, finish ancient age, Logic, Drama, etc

Benchmarks:
first settler usually out around turn 75-80
Start Philo to Logic around turn 150
First war turn 120 or so, rolling at least two more civs after that.

Policies:

Pantheism, first relevant resource improver, then straight down the middle of the tree to get the policy that claims tiles.

I usually see nothing more advanced than crossbowman up through the 2nd war, then heavy infantry, horse archers(rarely), and the rest show up around turn 200 or so.

By turn 200, I usually have a solid lead, comparable to what I have in vanilla.

Issues I have noticed:

Winery does not seem to work consistently.

Bowed cavalry, and war elephants(2nd tier)seem a little underpowered. The lower tiers seems about right, but 3rd tier cav should do around 25-30% damage to 3rd tier infantry, imho. Seems like I'm doing around 15.

Pantheist forest spread is a little too strong, especially on the Oval map. Any other policy seems like it needs tons of workers chopping just to keep growing. I guess slavery has the answer for this, but agriculture really has its hands full with constant chopping.

Otherwise, v12 is running really well for me. Keep up the good work.

 

[Pazyryk]

Finally got a game with working save process, so even after that hang I could continue. Turn 240 now.

This sounds like a problem the mod has with Advanced Settings. Are you sure you followed #7 here (where it says "Important!"). This is something I'm going to try to fix in the next version so you don't have to bother with this.

- you gave ranged units a further 20% bonus in defense without lowering their combat strength? O.o

They were weakened substantially in the last version (by reducing ranged damage globally, for reasons I discussed). Are you implying that I need to weaken them further?


I'll get to other comments eventually. I'll be fixing some of the broken civ names in v13, and adding back policy dependent ones (all require opening a policy within a branch).

 

[onedreamer]

This sounds like a problem the mod has with Advanced Settings. Are you sure you followed #7 here (where it says "Important!"). This is something I'm going to try to fix in the next version so you don't have to bother with this.

I'm sure of the contrary actually (I didn't follow it. I did it a few versions ago, then stopped).

They were weakened substantially in the last version (by reducing ranged damage globally, for reasons I discussed). Are you implying that I need to weaken them further?

Nope, I simply forgot you reduced the hidden attack value rather than the nominal one. Sorry. So far I could only see Crossbowmen fielded (against me). They seemed rather inconsistent but to be honest my opinion is that the reduced range makes the AI dizzy.
I hope someone else will post considerations on this issue because my opinion and yours alone seem a bit too few.

Suggestion: spells should consume faith/mana. You probably have this planned already... anyways atm I get to insane amounts of faith/mana with nothing to do with them.

 

[Pazyryk]

I'm sure of the contrary actually (I didn't follow it. I did it a few versions ago, then stopped).

Actually, if you could reproduce the savegame problem, it might help me solve it. I've been trying to reproduce this for the last hour without success. But I know from past work that it is triggered by UserSettings at the end of the config.ini file. So... please do ignore my instructions on the config.ini file. Do a test save/load early in the game. If it doesn't work:

1. Post config.ini file
2. Post cache/Civ5UserHistoryDatabase.db file
3. Post Logs/Lua.log

I'd like to solve this so I don't have to ask players to jump through a lot of hoops to play the mod.

Edit: Never mind. Working on this problem for v13.

 

[Lplate]

DDS file for flags.

 

[Pazyryk]

@Lplate, Thanks! Added to v13 and hooked up for existing GPs. I changed it to an 8 x 8 format for more room in the future.

 

[onedreamer]

Pazyryk I had been trying to reproduce it but with no luck. I tried switching various options and start vanilla game and then a mod game etc, but nothing. Could be good news
I wonder what I had been doing those days to cause it.