[BTS] ✌ [COMPLETED T237/500 WIN] Monarch Shadow Game - Washington | Help a Noble/Prince Player Level Up

placid_coolie

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hi, i'm one of those long time lurkers around this fantastic forum; been playing since 2020 (thanks to the pandemic) and very gung-ho on moving up the difficulty ladder. this game just grips you and makes you wanna get better. i know the core basics/mechanics, understands the importance of early turns/city micro etc, but still need help with diplomacy (seriously suck at this), tech flow/priority and overall empire management (and many other aspects of the game). hope the high-level players here can help me play this game like a true fanatic civ player.

I pledge to play this game to its fruitful conclusion, scout's honor. :)

let's go.
Spoiler settings :


Spoiler start :


I think I'll SIP.
Warrior to move NE but likely will not change settling decision?

Build worker > farm that corn.

Tech: Mining > BW
 

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placid_coolie

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Adding the Turn 0 save
 

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lymond

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I'd move warrior 1W to check that open tile, but the target here would be to settle 1S on the plains hill for the bonus.

Mining>BW good.
 

Araius

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Yeah, settling on plains hills with your first settler if you have the Expansive trait is usually pretty good, though obviously you have to consider the bigger picture with every settle.
The plains hill gives an extra :hammers: for the city tile. If you mix that with working a tile with two :hammers: and one :food: or even just three :hammers: you can get a worker one turn faster since you have four :hammers: going towards a worker, Expansive gives you an extra :hammers:.
Note that Expansive only works for :hammers:and not :food: when building workers.
 

coanda

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When there is a plains-hill tile within 1 turn's movement of your settler, the default thinking should be "give me a reason not to settle there instead." Losing 1 turn moving is more than made up for by getting the first worker out faster and having a bit more production afterwards.

In this case moving 1S would give up 4 fairly ordinary tiles and 1 mystery tile that (if you peer closely at the edge of the fog) you can see is an unforested grass hill tile to the northwest. Lymond's advice is good to take a look at that with your warrior.

The rest of your thinking is solid. This looks likely to be a very fast start. Expansive leader, two good strong food tiles and starting with Agriculture, potential 2:hammers: city tile, lots of forests. Early warrior scouting priority is identifying potential sites for your second and third cities; generally you'll want to spiral outwards around your capital, steering away from tundra, ice, and jungle, and spending a little more time checking the vicinity anywhere you see a food resource.
 

Gumbolt

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1S for production and you still grab the 2 food resources. Be nice to know how close to coast you are or if that's a long river.

Agree worker, warrior to size 2-3. Then settler. Scout in circle with warrior. Don't play too far on or value of advice is ruined.

Barbs on Monarch should not be too bad.
 

konata_LS

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Welcome to the forum!

A shadow game is an efficient way to improve your gameplay. People already gave you much helpful advice in the posts above.

Just a small note about the barbs: many people posted above play at Immortal/Deity. For IMM/Deity players, barbs at Monarch are not threat at all. But for Noble/Prince players, one of the major change at Monarch level is you won't have the free wins against barbs. The first barbs appear from T5. So, after T5, it's better to be prudent when you move your warrior. Let the warrior move in the forests if possible; the forest hill is the safest, bare hill a little risky. Moving your warrior in the unforested flat land is very risky.
 

placid_coolie

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guys, thank you so much.

Turn 6/500

Warrior went exploring west side of Washington - 2nd city (red arrow) potentially? Tundra and ice here and there but marble and that sheep within first ring of culture. Crab also within BFC. So this should be ok.

Next, send warrior up north towards direction of that rice tile.

Spoiler 5 turns later :
 

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coanda

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Red arrow is certainly a city site. You'll want to take it at some point. It's good but not great for your second city - if you want the marble for an early Oracle play it makes sense, otherwise it's kind of slow. Not a lot of forests, no tile overlap with the capital, seafood resource needing a border pop is very slow to start contributing. I do very much like the fact that it is immediately adjacent to the sheep and marble, so you wouldn't need a monument border pop to start improving and working those tiles.

My guess would be the most likely spot for your second city is somewhere with access to the wheat tile in your capital's BFC. It'd be nice to get a look at that area. There's a good 15-20 hidden tiles that are within range of potential cities that share the wheat, and if any of them are good tiles that's probably where your first settler goes. Third city might be grabbing the marble and sheep, or going further afield depending on what your scouting is finding.
 

Araius

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Another thing to consider is that you need to tech Animal Husbandry for sheep and that the sheep is only going to give four :food:.
A lot of the early game is about getting settlers and workers out as quickly as humanly possible and for that you need :food: for whipping and/or forests for chopping. Ideally within the initial ring of a city.
Also consider that you need to build three roads to hook up the two cities for the two trade routes for two :commerce:. If you second city is very close to your first or is up a river, you won't have to build as many roads and as a bonus your workers won't have to wander as far.
 

Gumbolt

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Red arrow spot looks pretty safe for now. Ideally you don't want second city against the coast. Scout clockwise around capital.

Generally chopping is first priority after improving food resources. Furs are okay but will hold back growth. You could even mine the hill. 4H2C.

You should get coastal trade routes long term with the sheep marble city. As stated above you need AH to make it useful.

Keep scouting. Keep warrior to forest terrain and post once worker complete.
 

placid_coolie

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Red arrow is certainly a city site. You'll want to take it at some point. It's good but not great for your second city - if you want the marble for an early Oracle play it makes sense, otherwise it's kind of slow. Not a lot of forests, no tile overlap with the capital, seafood resource needing a border pop is very slow to start contributing. I do very much like the fact that it is immediately adjacent to the sheep and marble, so you wouldn't need a monument border pop to start improving and working those tiles.

My guess would be the most likely spot for your second city is somewhere with access to the wheat tile in your capital's BFC. It'd be nice to get a look at that area. There's a good 15-20 hidden tiles that are within range of potential cities that share the wheat, and if any of them are good tiles that's probably where your first settler goes. Third city might be grabbing the marble and sheep, or going further afield depending on what your scouting is finding.

That's a good tip: explore in the vicinity of an already discovered food bonus for prospective city placements (potentially for sharing the food bonus). never thought of it that way.

Red arrow spot looks pretty safe for now. Ideally you don't want second city against the coast. Scout clockwise around capital.

Generally chopping is first priority after improving food resources. Furs are okay but will hold back growth. You could even mine the hill. 4H2C.

You should get coastal trade routes long term with the sheep marble city. As stated above you need AH to make it useful.

Keep scouting. Keep warrior to forest terrain and post once worker complete.

Just so i understand better: early coastal cities are less desirable because of deficient improvable tiles?
 
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placid_coolie

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Turn 11
First civ encountered Shaka of the Zulu empire. Uh oh, he's nearby...

Spoiler shaka turn 11 :


Turn 15

Spoiler second city scouting - cow with gold :


Worker farmed the corn. City (1 pop) working the corn.
Worker will then move 1N to farm the wheat.
Building warrior > warrior > settler

City candidate: i am thinking how can i balance the need to keep a compact early empire (overlapping cities' BFC) vs gaining access to important resources further away (gold in this context). to that end,1S of cow (red circle) perhaps although i will have to wait a bit for cultural pop to grab that gold? keen to hear your decision-making process.

Tech: BW > animal husbandry
 

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Gumbolt

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That's a good tip: explore in the vicinity of an already discovered food bonus for prospective city placements (potentially for sharing the food bonus). never thought of it that way.

Just so i understand better: early coastal cities are less desirable because of deficient improvable tiles?

I was more thinking that you grab more land. If all your cities are next to coast ai can squeeze you land wise. coastal cities can be back filled later.

You could go 1E and share just wheat but get gold earlier. Doubt the capital would lose corn and wheat. When would you get AH?

You might do a city north of capital to help with cottages and this could also use wheat.

Overlap is better on higher levels where upkeep is much higher. Sometimes good for help cities cottage wise. The wheat /cow circle can only work 1 cottage.
 
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placid_coolie

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Gumbolt

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*Anyway. Meaning the capital would nearly always work the corn. The minute the capital starts working 0/1 food tiles it will be stagnant in growth. Which is why the fur tiles have a big downside. Ideally it should always be growing so it can reach size 10-14 by 1ad. Which is why granaries are so important for growth.

The issue with gold tiles is they will kill your second city growth. Sometimes useful if you want to speed up science. Growth vs research.

Scouting next? Maybe reveal tiles around 2xgold and head north to find Shaka. One option could be to settle a blocker city. So settle near him to grab a good city spot or deny him a military resource. Then backfill near gold.

Your second warrior can either head to rice or fog bust. 1E of sheep or fogbust north of your land. Don't send first warrior too far away. You have about 18 or so turns till settler is ready if you go size 3 settler? So after 11-12 turns I would be heading warrior back.. Avoid non forest terrain whilst scouting.

Unless you can get Shaka to please he will pretty much go war mode when he has 2x offensive units. E.g. chariots and axes. Or Axes and spear.

Maybe paused at BW. You will have decisions on worker after wheat is ready.

Maybe mine grassland hill after wheat. Albeit it may delay 1 chop? With chops settler under 10 turns? Maybe even size 2 settler? Unless mine. Hmmm. Wait for advice.
 
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placid_coolie

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Scouting plan sounds good.

City development: how about this > worker finished farming that wheat. BW still 3 turns to completion. worker mine that grassland hill (1 turn spent traveling, 1 turn spent building mine), then chop forest 1E of capital for settler (after third warrior pops).

Will await further input.


The issue with gold tiles is they will kill your second city growth.

by virtue of its food :food:-deficit tile?
 
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lymond

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Yes, food deficit. Gold is obviously food deficit, but it is also very nice to have a city work gold early for the commerce. Sometimes even working gold only for a bit. Interestingly, I'm not always that excited about gold in the cap itself, as you want a lot of growth in your cap early for food production...though it can possibly be shared by a nearby city.

Copper may very likely determine your first city. Personally, I would continue up to Shaka and steal a worker, and choke him out. On this level, if you have copper nearby, I'd consider giving him a short life.

Not sure about food sharing for this particular city, although it is often a good idea. With Wash being Char you will have a lot of happy and you have some good tiles to grow on here, so food will be needed. (However, something to the East to share wheat or corn could be okay, and have the gold over there. Like 2E of corn)

If you go AH, I would go Hunting first here (I'd not always do that but it does give tech bonus, and you have the resources), as those furs will be some nice early commerce. Your cap is quite nice here.
(Note, I play this game til about 1AD, and may post it later for you)
 

placid_coolie

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Thanks!

Turn 29

Spoiler shaka up north and copper discovered :


Chopped out settler, 11 :hammers: overflow into worker #2.
Worker #1 to camp that fur.

BW revealed copper 2NE of cow. hmm... if we intend to attack Shaka early, for second city - settle near copper?
 

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Gumbolt

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New city on plains hill for copper, gold and cows?
Settler or 2nd worker next? If your planning rush you still need the TW. So maybe a third city adds value? I would of stolen the 2nd worker from Shaka.

Why is the warrior in the city? It should be fog busting new city site.

Think you rushed this a bit.
 
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