[BTS] ✌ [COMPLETED T237/500 WIN] Monarch Shadow Game - Washington | Help a Noble/Prince Player Level Up

placid_coolie

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thanks @lymond @Gumbolt @sampsa

About Great Generals, in this game I promoted three of them to Super Medics.

On hindsight, perhaps I promoted too many GGs to supermedics? What's the best way to utilize subsequent GGs after you promoted the first to Super Medic? Is two Super Medics sufficient?
 

sampsa

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I always go for one super medic. After that I spread the 20xp between a bunch of siege for enough xp to promote them all to cr3. Also the one who becomes general is now eligible for the +1 movement thing (morale?), handy with a stack of 2-movers.
 

placid_coolie

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I always go for one super medic. After that I spread the 20xp between a bunch of siege for enough xp to promote them all to cr3. Also the one who becomes general is now eligible for the +1 movement thing (morale?), handy with a stack of 2-movers.

what's "cr3"?

how about settling GG in a city for extra xp - is that ever worth doing?
 

sampsa

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what's "cr3"?

how about settling GG in a city for extra xp - is that ever worth doing?
City raider III, it's a promotion that makes a huge difference. I think settling for 2xp is nearly always worse than directly spreading 20xp, unless it happens VERY early.

edit: rep does give +3:science: for settled GGs, which might make a difference in some cases.
 
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lymond

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2 super medics would be pretty rare for me. One is usually enough, but it depends on if I'm fighting multiple wars, which is also rare unless I'm playing lower levels like for GOTM or HOF.

+3:science: for a settled GG in an HE city with no beaker multipliers pretty pointless too. Rare do I settle, although I certainly don't mind capturing AI cites where like Genghis Khan has settled 4 GGs in one city :lol:

Besides medic, one can think of GGs as free health for a few units in the heat of battle. So don't be afraid to just escort the GG with the army for a while until you really need some extra health via promos. (nod to My for that one ;)) It can really make a difference sometimes. So, point is, there's no reason one has to use a GG immediately.

If I'm really pumping those GGs out I might go for a rock star like a CRIII/morale Rifle promoted from an earlier dude that can take it, or a super horsie.

(I'm very fond of Woodie medics)
 

placid_coolie

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Re-reading @CGQ's playthrough...

After vassaling each CIV, I gave them all my techs.

What is the tactical reason for doing this? would this not risk the vassalled AIs trading off crucial techs to independent AIs?

I also gave Isabella and Inca back their capital after capturing them.

In the same vein, why gift the capitals back to AIs?
 
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Gumbolt

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I don't normally gift back cities. Guess it helps keep the Ai at please or friendly? That could help diplomacy. Capitals are normally their best cities.

I sometimes prefer to take out an AI completely to avoid the we yearn to join our motherland diplomacy hit. If you are going space or hammer economy you would want the cities? More cities is usually a good thing. Vassals can still expand which could be annoying pending where they settle. Ai culture from a capital could also be annoying.

I guess one plus side is the Ai will be stronger and may build units. Giving the AI you declare on someone else to send their stack to. On a map like this you should probably chain vassal all the AI.
 
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Master_Of_Ideas

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I tried this for myself. Thanks for the thread.

Here's the state at 112/500: 0075 BC

- 10 cities, the 11th is planned
- ultimate tech leadership, only one with mathmatics and alphabet same time, only one with currency, in 2 turns getting calender
- in 6 turns the mids would be ready

The key was to massively and early exploit the gold, only having 3 cities long time. Early war with Shaka, just worker stealing, made peace, then war with Ramesses, here got city 4 & 5, archery and iron working. Means when the war come to an end I focussed into alphabet.
After that preparing the war against Shaka gain, razing one city, conquering 3 and founding 2 more while the war was active. There are 3 more relatively interesting spots, but we need to finance that. Maybe I just build research now or try getting GPs (Shakas capital seems best here, with 5(!) food resources.

Eastern part:
upload_2022-6-26_21-59-22.png


Northern part:
upload_2022-6-26_21-59-50.png


Southern part: Spot C is settled next

upload_2022-6-26_22-8-37.png


The savefile is here.
 

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Master_Of_Ideas

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@placid_coolie : You didn't exploit the gold in the east until AD times. I took it in my 3rd city Boston, which was placed northeast of the lake in den starting city BFC. The gold and the hills there give a solid city for both commerce and hammers. All 3 cities could massively build units (swordsman every 3 turns), helping the war going. And later it can be transformed into a city with windmills and cottages for a very strong commerce.

I have learned from this game the value of gold. This massive amount of commerce makes research really quick
 
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Master_Of_Ideas

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I would either like to take some feedback for this game. So my next plans are:

- Settling one more spot marked with C at the gold and iron in western part of the area - getting another solid commerce spot, city will grow to size 3 and work on the 3 special tiles whole time.(later i bring there 2 more farms, irrigate the rice and 3 huts)
- Going into calender, using the tiles (sugar, banana, incense, spices, maybe silk)
- Going into construction, building 5-10 catas and some war-eles, if I got the ivory already
- Declaring war to Ramesses again, conquering his better cities
- Meanwhile researching the prerequisite of monarchy, squeezing monarchy out of him in making peace or trading it, after 10 turns killing him
- Researching first code of laws (court houses), then vassalship, maybe relocating palace
- After that using the army to find Hyunya and vassal him

Religion: Isabella seems to want me being buddhist. I think about that.
 
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CGQ

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What is the tactical reason for doing this? would this not risk the vassalled AIs trading off crucial techs to independent AIs?

Since you can control what they research, I usually I want my vassal to be "caught up" enough to be able to research a tech (like biology for instance) while I go for stuff like rifling. I don't usually give them everything but sometimes they're so far behind it doesn't matter. I give them enough to tech what I need, since usually my tech rate is far faster than theirs since I'll usually have 20-30 cities to their 3-4.

With that I can use the vassal to backfill my techs and save me the 2-4 turns it would take me to get it. Back to the example above, my vassal can research Biology, while my other one can go for railroad for instance. They'll take about 10-20 turns to do that since they're slower (Used those techs as an example since by time we get to Scientific Method I'll usually have a vassal or two).

That'll keep'em nice and busy and with that, while they take their sweet time to tech Bio and Rail, I'll get communism for the free spy and state property. Depending on how fast my tech rate is I'll even go Physics and start another gold age with my free scientist and spy (my first one is usually with the free GA from music, unless I build Taj Mahal)
I'll plow through Electricity, assembly line, etc. Eventually I trade my vassals something like Electricity for Bio and same with Railroad (sometimes I have to give them multiple techs but doesn't matter) then my vassal can go Fascism to backfill while I keep teching ahead.

Also like Gumbolt said, it helps when the vassal has the same military techs as me so when I go to war to conquer the rest of my continent they can offer a wee bit of help.

Also the diplomat bonus is a plus :)

In the same vein, why gift the capitals back to AIs?

Because usually I'm at the point where I'm pretty much done with the game and it's won. I have so many cities and I'm not too keen on dealing with waiting another 7 turns for the revolt to end, then the culture wash, then all the "motherland" stuff. In this case, I just did it out of good sport since, if I recall, Egypt was friendly almost the entire game and I had to backstab him to win the game so I just gave it to him because I felt bad for him lol

Usually with my first few vassals (not counting AI's I killed early in game) I keep the capitals since they're on good land (as Gumbolt said) but after a certain point the game is usually about to be won so it doesn't matter to me.

On the other hand, it does have its strategic uses for me. Besides skipping the 8-10 turn revolt, it helps my already weakened vassal's tech rate for the reasons I mentioned above. Don't want'em taking 30 turns just to get Biology since by that point I might as well tech it myself! :D

Especially when I take cities on another continent for domination...like I just want to win. I don't want to deal with 30+ cities and then another continent with a starving city that only has 3 workable tiles because it's culture-washed (and the game is pretty much won anyways at that point so it's pointless haha)

Plus another city to make units for our wars and the diplomacy bonus helps as usual. I've spoiled my vassals the last couple games and it has worked to my advantage but that's just my strategy at this stage. For space race then I'd go for cities rather than land because I hate dealing with revolts and all this "yearn motherland" nonsense lol.

I haven't done a space race in a while since they're so long and drawn out it feels like forever. Don't get me wrong- I'm one for playing SimCity but even then...micromanaging 30-40 cities can be a pain for a busy man like me. Like 10-20 minutes each turn...then there's my 50 workers to deal with... I don't even wanna imagine a huge map with like 100 cities...on MARATHON. haha nooooo. Capturing cities is just fun :D
 
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