1.21 beta

Xyth · Jan 17, 2014

Download:

http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/107040/history-rewritten-1-21-beta3

Changelist:

Spoiler :

Known Issues:

Leaders: most of the new leaders do no have any diplomacy messages yet
Domestic Advisor: not yet updated for GPP changes and such (will leave till after 1.21)
National Gallery: has same art as the Museum (will leave till after 1.21)
Terra mapscript is throwing an error during generation (will leave till after 1.21)
There might still be an OOS error in multiplayer
Still some Civil War balancing to do (much further along than previous betas though)

ales_ · Jan 17, 2014

1) What is Richelieu's capital?
2) Are the Natural Wonders placed on Earth maps?

Xyth · Jan 17, 2014

ales_ said:
1) What is Richelieu's capital?
2) Are the Natural Wonders placed on Earth maps?

1) Paris. Made the most sense given it's his role as first minister to the king that's relevant, rather than his role as Bishop of Luçon or such.

2) No. Potentially unbalancing. Might reconsider in the future though.

ales_ · Jan 17, 2014

1) OK.
2) I understand you but it's not interesting just to loose one element of the game. Maybe you should create another version of the map (Earth (Huge)) with natural wonders?

Nightstar · Jan 17, 2014

Not a bug, but a design problem:

A Stable is requisite for a Post Office (which is in turn requisite for a News Press), but obsoletes with Combustion. Thus any city which has not already built a Stable before Combustion is researched will never be able to build a Post Office or News Press.

Xyth · Jan 17, 2014

ales_ said:
I understand you but it's not interesting just to loose one element of the game. Maybe you should create another version of the map (Earth (Huge)) with natural wonders?

I guess it will depend how strong the Natural Wonder bonuses end up being. They can have any bonus that buildings and wonders have. Ultimately though, I don't play the real world maps myself, and if those of you who do want the Natural Wonders on them, I'm happy to oblige. I just don't want to be limited in how I design them or which I add in future because they'll imbalance the real world maps.

I'd prefer not to add NW versions of the maps, doubles the workload.

Nightstar said:
Not a bug, but a design problem:

A Stable is requisite for a Post Office (which is in turn requisite for a News Press), but obsoletes with Combustion. Thus any city which has not already built a Stable before Combustion is researched will never be able to build a Post Office or News Press.

Ah yeah, that's a problem. I'll remove the requirement or obsoletion.

ales_ · Jan 17, 2014

I'll open a thread with a poll.

Xyth · Jan 17, 2014

ales_ said:
I'll open a thread with a poll.

Good idea. I should mention that I do consider geographic diversity when choosing wonders, so it won't be a case of certain continents having many while others have none. Currently Africa has the most, with 3. Finding/making quality art is the biggest limitation when selecting.

The other factor to consider is that many Natural Wonders are impassable, and none can be improved (benefits come via a building placed in the city instead). This could potentially cause problems on some maps, e.g. Mount Fuji dividing Japan.

The_Athenian · Jan 17, 2014

Hi Xyth,

I'm excited to see that 1.21 is on it's way! congrats, it looks like you made a lot of improvements!

Nightstar · Jan 17, 2014

Actual bug this time:

Defensive leaders are not getting their free Walls, even on Classical-era starts with Construction already known.

Edit: Also, Martial leaders are not getting their free Barracks.

And a design quibble: El Cid and Suppiluliuma favor the Mercenaries civic with its 50% upgrading discount, but have the Martial trait which already negates upgrade costs entirely.

Boggy · Jan 18, 2014

The Security Bureau is a bit, ehm, large, I think.

Besides, is the "Minimal wait between Civics changes" bonus really necessary? I believe that No Anarchy is perfectly enough. Christo Redentor could keep its Minimal wait bonus in addition to whatever new bonus it will get.
Large Earth map:
The Polynesians starting on islands should have coastal connections to the mainland. Te Rauparaha is able to reach Australia but Salamasina and Kamemha cannot found more than two cities until Navigation. That's unplayable.
Te Rauparaha starts at 125, 17, on a potato. I think 125, 18 would be better.
Huge Earth map:
Kamemha starts on a fish (thus, in the water) in South America.

ales_ · Jan 18, 2014

It should be difficult to play as Polynesia. That's historical. You can always choose another civ or play a random map.
About the huge map: it's mistake either on my side or on Xyth's. I'll try to report them.

Boggy · Jan 18, 2014

ales_ said:
It should be difficult to play as Polynesia. That's historical. You can always choose another civ or play a random map.

Of course, Polynesia offers the opportunity for a very different gameplay. But starting on a one tile island with no chance to expand until navigation is not just difficult, it's neither funny nor possibly playable. It would be funny the way it works for Te Rauparaha on the large map and all the Polynesian leaders on the huge map (apart from Kamehameha who definitely does not start where he should start): they start on a small island but can use galleys in order to expand to the mainland. That could be funny for human players who desire a harder/different game (although the AI would never manage it, which is why I would have placed at least one polynesian leader at the Australian mainland), but the way it is at the moment, no one would ever want to play Salamasina or Kamehameha on the large earth map.

tchristensen · Jan 18, 2014

Can't wait to try this out with friends on MP.

Looks like many cool updates.

EmmyD8 · Jan 18, 2014

Sorry I just closed my game and forgot to take a screenshot, but in my game, whenever a new Great Prophet is born in an AI Empire, it throws an error report and no new religions are founded. I managed to found my religion just fine so I'm betting AIs are having trouble grasping the new founding mechanic. I'll look again in World Builder, it's possible that all 3 of them decided to settle their GPs as specialists instead of founding a religion but I doubt it.

Nightstar · Jan 18, 2014

Started several games as Roosevelt on the Huge Earth Map at Odyssey speed. In every game, after about 100 turns it starts crashing to the desktop with no explanation. If I reload from an auto-save, I can play a few more turns, but then it crashes again. Logs attached.

Xyth · Jan 18, 2014

Besides, is the "Minimal wait between Civics changes" bonus really necessary? I believe that No Anarchy is perfectly enough. Christo Redentor could keep its Minimal wait bonus in addition to whatever new bonus it will get.

Unfortunately these effects are inseparable, the same XML setting applies both.

EmmyD8 said:
Sorry I just closed my game and forgot to take a screenshot, but in my game, whenever a new Great Prophet is born in an AI Empire, it throws an error report and no new religions are founded. I managed to found my religion just fine so I'm betting AIs are having trouble grasping the new founding mechanic. I'll look again in World Builder, it's possible that all 3 of them decided to settle their GPs as specialists instead of founding a religion but I doubt it.

Sounds like there's an error in the code that determines whether the AI will found a religion or not. Should be pretty reproducible, and thus easily fixed when I'm back.

Nightstar said:
Started several games as Roosevelt on the Huge Earth Map at Odyssey speed. In every game, after about 100 turns it starts crashing to the desktop with no explanation. If I reload from an auto-save, I can play a few more turns, but then it crashes again. Logs attached.

I can't view the crash logs on my phone but it may well be the civil war crash I wasn't sure if I fixed or not. Before it happens, check your dissent levels in the dissent advisor. If you've got Rebellious cities, then it's probably that.

Btw, dissent isn't scaled by game speed or difficulty yet. Feedback on how quickly cities are getting to each dissent level would be really helpful.

ales_ · Jan 18, 2014

Are atolls included on Earth maps?

Xyth · Jan 18, 2014

ales_ said:
Are atolls included on Earth maps?

No. I was going to place a few, but I recently found some art for small islands and rocky reefs. So I want to add those and review atolls, the current reefs, and such in 1.22.

I suppose that means we can make some quick fixes to Polynesia for now, and do a proper overhaul of their start locations in 1.22 as well.

Xyth · Jan 18, 2014

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts and suggestions on what benefits Natural Wonders could provide. This will help me get 1.21 finished quicker when I get home. Three different situations:

1) Civ-wide Benefit when a NW is discovered for the very first time, e.g. wealth, happiness in all cities.

2) Civ-wide benefit when a player/team discovers a NW for the first time (but another player/team has discovered it previously). Currently thinking there doesn't need to be a reward for this, just the splash screen.

3) City specific benefit for when a city claims a NW, i.e. for the first city built in range of it. This can be anything that a building or wonder can do, and can be different for each NW.

Note that some NWs are impassable (and thus unworkable), and those that are passable cannot have improvements built on them (but can be worked as unimproved tiles).

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