1 in 5 German Youth unaware of Auschwitz

[kochman]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/on...-poll.aspx?pageID=238&nID=12307&NewsCatID=351

I would expect this number is higher in the USA... but shouldn't this be fully taught EVERYWHERE, but especially in Germany?

One in five young Germans has no idea that Auschwitz was a Nazi death camp, a poll released Wednesday showed, two days ahead of Holocaust memorial day.

Is this not being taught in school?
Are they living in caves? I know they aren't, that's why I can't figure this out. There are documentaries on German TV about WW2 at almost the same frequency as the USA...

How is this possible? I imagine many of the respondents were immigrants, and might not have been taught back in their country...

 

[Quackers]

Although 90 percent of those asked did know it was a concentration camp

So it should be 1 in 10 not 1 in 5..:tut:

the poll for Thursday's edition of Stern news magazine revealed that Auschwitz meant nothing to 21 percent of 18-29 year olds.

I wonder how they define "meant nothing"? If its "I don't care" then i'm not surprised!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Read that again Quackers

 

[aronnax]

I am very suspicious of polls conducted by newspapers that do not provide their figures or methodology.

 

[Quackers]

They knew it was a concentration camp but not a...nazi death camp?
The distinction is pretty meaningless IMO.

 

[The_J]

Heard that in the radio...and I think they manipulated that somewhere or didn't evaluate their results right (e.g. once they asked people who Gerhard Schröder, chancellor at that time, was, and counted "our boss" as wrong answer *shakesHead*).
The last year of german history classes is only, purely about the 3rd Reich, there's really no way you can miss Auschwitz.

 

[gangleri2001]

So? I've always thought that the Holocaust would eventualy fall into oblivion. Nobody remembers the attrocities of the Romans, the Mongols or the British and nobody other than your average historian and history aficionado really cares. Why should Hitler be any special? Don't get me wrong, what Hitler and Nazi Germany did was a monstruosity, I'm just saying that trying as hard as Germans do to make these things not being forgotten is a futile effort.

 

[Cutlass]

So? I've always thought that the Holocaust would eventualy fall into oblivion. Nobody remembers the attrocities of the Romans, the Mongols or the British and other than your average historian and history aficionado really cares. Why should Hitler be any special? Don't get me wrong, what Hitler and Nazi Germany did was a monstruosity, I'm just saying that trying as hard as Germans do to make these things not being forgotten is a futile effort.

Granted that most people who saw it first hand are dead, but it is still technically within living memory.

It's more likely a case of not wanting to know. Shutting it out because they are unable to deal with the collective responsibility. Japan is like that regarding its WWII actions as well.

 

[aronnax]

So? I've always thought that the Holocaust would eventualy fall into oblivion. Nobody remembers the attrocities of the Romans, the Mongols or the British and other than your average historian and history aficionado really cares. Why should Hitler be any special? Don't get me wrong, what Hitler and Nazi Germany did was a monstruosity, I'm just saying that trying as hard as Germans do to make these things not being forgotten is a futile effort.

Given that the Holocaust ended only 57 years ago and the Mongol conquests was over 700 years ago. I don't think we will forget it anytime soon.
Plus, I don't think anyone has forgotten British atrocities. Ask the Irish, Indians or Maoris.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

They knew it was a concentration camp but not a...nazi death camp?
The distinction is pretty meaningless IMO.

Not necessarily. The term "concentration camp" originally referred to internment camps, with terrible living conditions and high death rates to be sure, but they weren't intended primarily to kill the inhabitants. Nazi extermination camps were referred to euphemistically as concentration camps, but then that euphemistic meaning sort of took over.

 

[gangleri2001]

Granted that most people who saw it first hand are dead, but it is still technically within living memory.

It's more likely a case of not wanting to know. Shutting it out because they are unable to deal with the collective responsibility. Japan is like that regarding its WWII actions as well.

No, the Germans really regret that. That's why the always tell you "it's the first time in my life I'm proud of being German" everytime Germany wins a football match. This sentence it's like a tradition since 1954 from what I've observed but it clearly shows how ashamed and regretfull they are and any foreigner who has lived in Germany for a period of time like me will surely tell you the same. So comparing Germany and Japan is a bad idea because their reactions are completely different.

All I'm saying is that it's futile to believe that telling every single generation from now on what nazis did will make all these future generations not "forget" (that's to say, feel empathy for the victims). Of course they will know it, but they won't give a about it, just like we know about what Romans did to Carthage and still dont give a **** about it. The fact that, as you pointed, it's still living history shows how much human beings care about things that don't affect them directly.

Given that the Holocaust ended only 57 years ago and the Mongol conquests was over 700 years ago. I don't think we will forget it anytime soon.
Plus, I don't think anyone has forgotten British atrocities. Ask the Irish, Indians or Maoris.

We will eventualy forget it, that's for sure.

BTW, ask any Irish, Indian or Maori wether they see such attrocities just like a sad episode in their history or if they are truly concerned about them and think that affects them in their daily lifes.

PD: It ended 67 years ago, not 57.

 

[Traitorfish]

It's more likely a case of not wanting to know. Shutting it out because they are unable to deal with the collective responsibility.

Do Germans who weren't born until more than forty years after the events in question have a "collective responsibility" to them? And if so, then why not Poles, Italians, Belarusians, or other people from nations which participated in the Holocaust? It seems just as likely to me that they simply do not care about what they regard as ancient history, as misguided as that may be.

 

[kronic]

Well, that happens when you don't pay attention at all at school or at what's going on in the media, I guess. Auschwitz and death camps in general are a topic in (mandatory) history classes. I had it in 9/10th and in 12th grade. And we're certainly reminded quite often by the media, particularly on January 27th.

 

[Tee Kay]

"What we went through will be difficult to understand even for our contemporaries, and much more difficult for the generations that already have no personal experiences from those days." From The World At War.

I'm with gangleri. Yes, we are all taught history in school, but for the vast majority of us what we are taught is not an experience, but a jumble of facts and dates that has little relevance to our daily lives, to be mostly forgotten after the exams are over (or even before).

It's more likely a case of not wanting to know. Shutting it out because they are unable to deal with the collective responsibility. Japan is like that regarding its WWII actions as well.

I don't think that they're "unable" to deal with collective responsibility, I think they just don't.

The current generation of Germans or Japanese is not responsible for the Holocaust or the mass torture of civilians, much as the current generation of Britons is not responsible for the concentration camps of South Africa and Kenya. They don't have any responsibility, collective or otherwise, for what has happened. This is different from "memorialising" these events, which I say we should all do, German, Japanese or otherwise.

And, then, what's more important: feeling a special sorrow for victims of one of many atrocities that we have inflicted on each other throughout history, or behaving towards fellow people with kindness and treating them with respect, and remembering the commandment "thou shalt not kill"?

 

[aronnax]

We will eventualy forget it, that's for sure.

No so much forgotten, but relegated to a tragic chapter in history. I don't think WWI and WWII will ever be lost to human kind. It's like how the Three Kingdoms Period will never be lost to the Chinese people.

BTW, ask any Irish, Indian or Maori wether they see such attrocities just like a sad episode in their history or if they are truly concerned about them and think that affects them in their daily lifes.

I don't think they can be truly concerned. But they will still think it matters. For a very long time. The Maoris didn't moon the Queen because they were mischievous you know.

PD: It ended 67 years ago, not 57.

Whoops you got me there.

 

[Yeekim]

How many Americans between 18 and 29 would know about Andersonville?

 

[Camikaze]

The last year of german history classes is only, purely about the 3rd Reich, there's really no way you can miss Auschwitz.

'Young Germans' would presumably include those that haven't made it to their last year of German history classes.

Still worrying (in how it reflects on Germany's education system) or dubious. It's hard to imagine not recognising the virtual synonymity of Auschwitz with death camps.

 

[Tee Kay]

It's hard to imagine not recognising the virtual synonymity of Auschwitz with death camps.

That's because you are a well-educated, politically-aware, historically-informed, young man with strong values.

 

[kronic]

'Young Germans' would presumably include those that haven't made it to their last year of German history classes.

Still worrying (in how it reflects on Germany's education system) or dubious. It's hard to imagine not recognising the virtual synonymity of Auschwitz with death camps.

I'm 100 % certain that it is taught to everyone who gets to the final exams (which take place after 9, 10 or 12/13 years, depending on the school type). I doubt there are too many pupils who manage to drop out of schools before the end of the 9th year.

 

[kochman]

Heard that in the radio...and I think they manipulated that somewhere or didn't evaluate their results right (e.g. once they asked people who Gerhard Schröder, chancellor at that time, was, and counted "our boss" as wrong answer *shakesHead*).
The last year of german history classes is only, purely about the 3rd Reich, there's really no way you can miss Auschwitz.

Yes, they probably somewhat changed it.
Is that last year in gymnasium level? My ex-girlfriend (german) never mentioned it, and believe me, a history nut like me... it was brought up a lot. I took great pleasure in knowing more about it than her father, who was also a history nut.

Anyhow, could that last year be a regional thing? Are the schools in Hesse teaching the same thing as Rhein-Pfalzland or whatever?

So? I've always thought that the Holocaust would eventualy fall into oblivion. Nobody remembers the attrocities of the Romans, the Mongols or the British and nobody other than your average historian and history aficionado really cares. Why should Hitler be any special? Don't get me wrong, what Hitler and Nazi Germany did was a monstruosity, I'm just saying that trying as hard as Germans do to make these things not being forgotten is a futile effort.

Hitler's was a big worse, and more efficient... and we have video of it happening. Video of mass graves, starved corpses, etc. It shouldn't be singled out as the only time such things happened (we just don't have the video of it from the USSR or Cambodia or Rwanda)...
The Germans also happened to be the most efficient at it... making it that much more calculated... which makes it scarier.

No, the Germans really regret that. That's why the always tell you "it's the first time in my life I'm proud of being German" everytime Germany wins a football match. This sentence it's like a tradition since 1954 from what I've observed but it clearly shows how ashamed and regretfull they are and any foreigner who has lived in Germany for a period of time like me will surely tell you the same. So comparing Germany and Japan is a bad idea because their reactions are completely different.

All I'm saying is that it's futile to believe that telling every single generation from now on what nazis did will make all these future generations not "forget" (that's to say, feel empathy for the victims). Of course they will know it, but they won't give a about it, just like we know about what Romans did to Carthage and still dont give a **** about it. The fact that, as you pointed, it's still living history shows how much human beings care about things that don't affect them directly.

This brings up an interesting question...
Should today's germans, and further along in time, the future's germans, who had ZERO to do with it feel guilt and shame?
I would like to say no... I have no shame/guilt for what happened with slavery or the mistreatment of the indians, etc... because I had nothing to do with it.
I recognize it was so wrong, and would not support it...
But does everyone operate on that level? Probably not.

How many Americans between 18 and 29 would know about Andersonville?

Uh, Auschwitz was way more extreme than Andersonville... WAY. Auschwitz was intended to wipe a race off the face of the Earth (or at least Europe). Andersonville was a purposely poorly run prisoner of war camp.