100% slider

[dalamb]

I recently read jesusin's recent advice in a commentary on one of the game series (LHC, likely, but also his cultural victory guide IIRC) that it's best to run 100% for the goal you have in mind, e.g. science or culture, alternating when necessary with 100% for whatever you need to make up for, e.g. gold. Is this always best or does it depend on some details of exactly what civics, techs, and buildings you have?

It seems to be working well in my current LHC game (#45, Ragnar), but I haven't done any detailed experiments.

 

[r_rolo1]

It is always the best to use 100% of anything, due to the rouding issues. The gain is smaller than in vanilla , where the cuts were made to the unit, than in BtS where the cuts are made to the 2nd decimal, but there are always gains by it self. Having the gold stockpilled before you start teching also gives you more flexibility compared with using a smaller percentage continuosly, because you might change your mind on the needed tech

 

[popejubal]

One potential downside, however, is that the AI might ask you to give them a giant bucketload of cash - something that they won't do if you don't actually have a giant bucketload of cash.

 

[Iranon]

Apart from the rounding, there's also changing multipliers. If you're going to build multiple markets soon without changing your science infrastructure, rack up science and spend any surplus gold you have lying around.

Problem with stockpiling gold: Tribute demands, and less appealing trade opportunities (AIs undervalue gold)

Problem with teching first: Bonus to AIs who research the same thing; usually less intrusive though.

 

[Shurdus]

I actually believe that binary research is a bit of a gimmicky thing that players do to feel good about themselves. It may help your research somewhat, but in general I think it is not worth the trouble. With bug 3.6 mod it is as easy as clicking once to set the slider to the max so it is not that much trouble. there ar eplenty of walkthroughs on deity however where the 'advantages' of binary research are not exploited and the game was still won that I believe actually doing this binary research compulsively is not needed at all.

 

[Yxklyx]

It does make a bit of sense though since as someone else pointed out that at 100% gold you are at least bringing something in every turn (extra gold) while with research you get nothing each turn - you only gain when you complete it. It does give a little more flexibility.

 

[aday]

I use binary research most of the time in the early game, but it's entirely for the flexibility reasons. I'll wait until I have enough cash to research the entire tech at 100%. When you live next door to Napoleon and Catherine, plans can change pretty quickly! With Cathy's stack at your front door, it's much nicer to have a pile of gold to research Construction or upgrade units than to have a half-researched Music.

 

[Gliese 581]

It's not only that you gain an extra beaker by binary research in the early game, binary research also gives the AI more time to research techs that you want which in turn gives you a discount on that tech when you start putting beakers into it and/or give you more time before you have to decide what tech to go for. On high levels specifically where you're likely to be behind in tech this is useful to gauge the trade worth of a tech. It's also good to time research with libraries and such so stockpiling gold after Writing is a good idea. That people don't do this and still win on deity does not mean that it's a bad or useless practice, you can get away with stuff even on deity.

 

[Shurdus]

I seriously dislike people making perfectly valid points for something after I made a point against it.

The trading value of techs are indeed a thing to note. Putting research on hold is also a good idea since you will generally like that +25% to research in the early game.

I still feel that this flexibility argument does not really hold. If I gather gold for a tech and then research it I can still get declared on and be caught without spare cash. I understand that if the Ai chooses to attack you at the time you have the money to research a tech, you will have a lot of cash for upgrading, but this window of opportunity is very slim so I have my doubts about the added value.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Gliese,Shurdus
I don't know players who don't accumulate cash on deity waiting for multipliers. I often even wait for the academy if i have put on the 2 scientists early.

 

[tibbles]

Can we back up and go on a slight tangent for a sec?

So once I've got Writing and libraries I'm better off setting Research to 0% and stockin gold for a period rather than letting the bar run itself down as I expand?

I've been a lot better recently at driving my economy down to the 0-20% range, but had never actually set it to 0% purposely before I ran out of gold.

 

[Gliese 581]

Can we back up and go on a slight tangent for a sec?

So once I've got Writing and libraries I'm better off setting Research to 0% and stockin gold for a period rather than letting the bar run itself down as I expand?

I've been a lot better recently at driving my economy down to the 0-20% range, but had never actually set it to 0% purposely before I ran out of gold.

No, it's better to set it to 0% once you have Writing until you get libraries in your good commerical output cities and then turn it to 100%.

Binary research means only using 100% or 0% on the slider, so you accumulate gold at 0% until you can research a tech nonstop at 100%.
The best thing though as mentioned is to time the slider with buildings like markets and libraries. If you're going to get a modifier soon, it's better to utilize it to its fullest potential.

 

[tibbles]

Ah, ok, that makes sense. I was thinking I'd need the libraries to run specialists to get any research done while stockpiling gold, but of course by then I already have the science multiplier which benefits from 100% slider. Next game I'll try setting it to 0% once I finish Writing then back to 100% once the libraries are up.

 

[Yamps]

Is there any other way to play than with 100%/0% ?

Some comments:

It's worthwhile to mention the period after Education and before Oxford where accumulating cash is extremely useful.

As mentioned, flexibility is very important. For example, it's better to wait and see what's AI going to research and get it by trade than to slowly research the wrong thing.

Also, the tribute argument is not really valid. What are they going to ask if you don't have cash? They'll ask for a big fat tech and that's often much worse. If they do take too much money, you can sell a tech you choose to take the money back.

There's also that event reducing inflation that requires 1000k gold in reserves encouraging this approach.

The only concern imo is potential overshooting: accumulating too much cash and delaying the wanted tech. But that's just a question of some care, not a real problem.

 

[tibbles]

Oh, as another question, I seem to recall from another thread on here that if you have any research into a tech, an AI will trade it cheaper? (I know it's cheaper but wasn't sure if it's based on how far into it you are).

If so, and you're running at 0% anyways, would it be worthwhile to put 1 turn into every tech you can access? Make them all cheaper to trade for?

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Can we back up and go on a slight tangent for a sec?

So once I've got Writing and libraries I'm better off setting Research to 0% and stockin gold for a period rather than letting the bar run itself down as I expand?

I've been a lot better recently at driving my economy down to the 0-20% range, but had never actually set it to 0% purposely before I ran out of gold.

I think I get it!

It's between writing and the completion of the libraries, if I read the responses right. Once you tech writing, your multipliers are still zero until the libraries are built.

While building the libraries, dump your commerce into gold. Wait until the libraries are finished, then deplete that gold into tech at a 25% multiplier, jumping into the next tech faster than if you just kept the slider high. Otherwise, all the research you put in while building your empire's libraries is still hit with a zero multiplier.

Fascinating, I must try this.

 

[Duckweed]

There's exceptions

If you have a powerful start (eg Gold or gem in capital BFC), sometime it worth to go directly to Alpha without waiting for Lib. The early trade itself will give you more benefit than 25% beaker saving.

 

[Yamps]

Oh, as another question, I seem to recall from another thread on here that if you have any research into a tech, an AI will trade it cheaper? (I know it's cheaper but wasn't sure if it's based on how far into it you are).

If so, and you're running at 0% anyways, would it be worthwhile to put 1 turn into every tech you can access? Make them all cheaper to trade for?

Sure, the more beakers you put in a tech the less you have to pay to get it from AI. It's fun to estimate how many beakers do you actually have to research on your own to make a trade happen, but that can be tricky business. (Especially if the AI is researching the tech you intend to sell...)

Another point you might like, you can often estimate what AI is researching in this way. For example, if they're willing to give you just a few coins for a big fat tech like Education, you can be sure that they are almost there with their research.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

@ Duckweed

Good point. It's still a new tactic I must check out though. I am not sure how the math will work out until I get the game in front of me, but it looks like extra beakers net. However, I agree with an extra good commerce start, control of early trade can put you ahead in either research turns, worker turns or combat turns (or all of the above). Hmm, choices choices.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

Maybe I just play differently than most, but everytime I try binary research I run into one big problem-I usually only build 1 library (usually in capital) right after I tech writing. The other cities are too busy building units/workers/settlers/granaries/monuments (if needed). I start whipping more libraries as I start closing in on 0%, where by that time there is no choice for "binary research" since I"m gonna be at 0 for awhile anyhow...

Even if I'm only gonna have 1 library benefit, is binary really worth it? Or should I be getting libraries up sooner in general? This is map dependent of course. Sometimes I can't rex past 6 cities, and in those cases I probably do build libraries sooner since the need for settlers and workers is diminished.