1205 AD on GEM

[Halt]

If it was just AI's fighting it would work. As a human we can focus on a specific goal.

If the player wants to take the time to grab holy cities, spread religion, build shrines, build banks, markets, grocer, etc... then he should get the income.

However the AI can defend against this process through its normal play.

 

[kochman]

Are other shrines in place?
Anyhow, owning Rome, well, it was a goal, and it was unbalancing in history. If you held sway in Rome, you held sway over the entire W. Europe in history. Just as if you have Mecca, you are pretty damn important to the world of Islam...

My point, 100GP/turn, well, Rome was the richest city in the west... precisely for this reason. 10% went to Rome.

If you have any shrines, you should have all. If you have none, then that's ok. The AP is a good enough boon to Rome if no one else has a shrine in their holy city.

 

[Traiano]

Are other shrines in place?
Anyhow, owning Rome, well, it was a goal, and it was unbalancing in history. If you held sway in Rome, you held sway over the entire W. Europe in history. Just as if you have Mecca, you are pretty damn important to the world of Islam...

My point, 100GP/turn, well, Rome was the richest city in the west... precisely for this reason. 10% went to Rome.

If you have any shrines, you should have all. If you have none, then that's ok. The AP is a good enough boon to Rome if no one else has a shrine in their holy city.

No Shrines are in place in the game. I have seen the AI build the Nativity Church, at times, but that's it. I cant say what happens for Constantinople, Mecca etc...

 

[Halt]

I took over Rome built a shrine. Constatinople had a shrine when I took it over generating 36GP a turn base.

So as Fredrick II I can run 100% research at a deficit at 40GP a turn with 5 cities in Africa.

Still been a good scenario so far, the game is still in doubt depending if I have the time to get my economy in shape. Huizong is a strong 2nd, Saladin is close behind.

 

[kochman]

If no city has a shrine, that's cool I guess.
Anyhow, I don't really think all shrines should be considered equal. Rome had made itself the top of the pyramid, so to speak, amongst Catholics. Constantinople, while head of the Orthodox Church, for example, didn't really have the hierarchical (spelling?) structure of the RC church...
Really, no other religion, as far as I know, demands 10% like Rome did though...
I like the idea that Rome therefore has the AP... but really, Jerusalem should be the holy city for both types of Christianity, as well as Judaism. Of course, this would unbalance the game, I understand that.

Its cool that you have the orthodox in the game... my only problem is that the religions being what they are in civ, the RC look at Orthodox the same way as it looks at Islam or Buddism, as far as tolerance, etc. This was obviously not the case. I don't think you can really effect this though, just a part of the game.

 

[Traiano]

If no city has a shrine, that's cool I guess.
Anyhow, I don't really think all shrines should be considered equal. Rome had made itself the top of the pyramid, so to speak, amongst Catholics. Constantinople, while head of the Orthodox Church, for example, didn't really have the hierarchical (spelling?) structure of the RC church...
Really, no other religion, as far as I know, demands 10% like Rome did though...
I like the idea that Rome therefore has the AP... but really, Jerusalem should be the holy city for both types of Christianity, as well as Judaism. Of course, this would unbalance the game, I understand that.

Its cool that you have the orthodox in the game... my only problem is that the religions being what they are in civ, the RC look at Orthodox the same way as it looks at Islam or Buddism, as far as tolerance, etc. This was obviously not the case. I don't think you can really effect this though, just a part of the game.

I tested both Rome and Jerusalem as Christian holy city and decided to go with Rome, to avoid concentrating too much in Jerusalem.

With regards to Orthodoxy I agree with you. Unfortunately there isnt an easy way to lessen the penalties for another religion, so to keep orthodoxy closer to christianity than to other religions. What I noticed though is that increasing the number of orthodox civs helped a lot. At the first stage of this mod I initially I started with only Bulgaria, Rus, Byzantines and Georgia and the christian civs immediately attacked them. It wasnt easy to play an orthodox civ. Now that there is also Ethiopia, Serbia and Armenia the christian civ aggression seems more mellow. As if the bulk of orthodox civs made a christian civ ponder well before attacking.

Last but not least, I fixed some bugs you guys pointed out (some river, some resource etc), and gave Acre to the Minor Nations in a new minor upgrade of the mod that I just uploaded. In fact in 3 consecutive games I had the Teutonic Knights capitulate to Saladin as soon as possible (before 1270AD, as soon as they lost Acre), even though no unit of Saladin threatened the Knights Baltic cities and even though the Teutonic Knights had a quite high score. To cope with the loss of Acre, the Knights now got some new units that are part of the huge crusaders army that invades Egypt at game start.

Currently I'm focusing on trying to bring to life the Ottoman civ with SpawnACiv. I'd like to have them appear in Anatolia around 1300 AD. It wont be easy, as the code created so far isnt too detailed. In fact, right now I cannot determine the exact year the Ottomans appear, but their spawning is triggered only by the discovery of a technology (I can choose the tech and see how soon a random civ discovers that tech, triggering the Ottomans' creation).

Of course if anyone wants to help, and is proficient with python, please drop me a line.

 

[Halt]

Thanks for the update! Will start a new game just in time for the Holiday's in the USA.

 

[kochman]

Sounds like some good changes, in particular the TO change. Its weird they capitulate so easily every time... but I guess Saladin's pretty high score might have something to do with it. Sounds like you did the best possible fix.

 

[Halt]

I notice that you used the older version of GEM without the change to Harbors to balance out Financial. Without that change financial is kinda puny, with water giving only 1C

Thanks for pointing it out.
I'll address it in the next version, when I should finally get the python for the crusades event.

I found this from an eariler post by me in 2008.

Still not addressed.

Also... What is the deal with Trade routes? I noticed you only get 1 unless you have free market. no + 1 at corporation etc... is that intentional?

 

[Lean]

Well since my brother decided to destroy my T.O. game, I have been forced to start again, this time as Scotland. I noticed the military was reduced on the mainland right away, and I knew this would severly downsclae my conquests for a while. So, using the troops on the seas, I launched an invasion of Norway.

The Norwegians were tough. Their Beserkers were extreamly tough for me to handle, and I had to bring my reserves from Scotland over to deal with them. However, I ultimatly prevailed, and Norway became a prosperous part of the Scottish Kingdom.

After the conquest of Norway and an alliance with the Danes, I Moved the majority of my forces back to Scotland, and they were reinforced with recently produced units. Then, I staged a joint invasion of England and Ireland.After capturing the whole of Ireland with relitive ease, I took London and Lancaster, and am seiging Dorchester. However, I've done this before, and really want to try something new. Any suggestions?

 

[Traiano]

I found this from an eariler post by me in 2008.

Still not addressed.

Also... What is the deal with Trade routes? I noticed you only get 1 unless you have free market. no + 1 at corporation etc... is that intentional?

I havent modified anything regarding Traits and Trade Routes. I might look into that but I havent made up my mind yet about it.

Well since my brother decided to destroy my T.O. game, I have been forced to start again, this time as Scotland. I noticed the military was reduced on the mainland right away, and I knew this would severly downsclae my conquests for a while. So, using the troops on the seas, I launched an invasion of Norway.

The Norwegians were tough. Their Beserkers were extreamly tough for me to handle, and I had to bring my reserves from Scotland over to deal with them. However, I ultimatly prevailed, and Norway became a prosperous part of the Scottish Kingdom.

After the conquest of Norway and an alliance with the Danes, I Moved the majority of my forces back to Scotland, and they were reinforced with recently produced units. Then, I staged a joint invasion of England and Ireland.After capturing the whole of Ireland with relitive ease, I took London and Lancaster, and am seiging Dorchester. However, I've done this before, and really want to try something new. Any suggestions?

You might try the pagan Gran Duchy of Lithuania!
Yes, I am going to add the civ, with a new very cool LH (Yaroslav, recently improved and shadered by The Capo). There is room to add them - as I realized I misplaced Moscow and other Rus cities, that should instead be 2 squares east than where they are right now. After all Lithuania became a large power even before the Lublin Union with Poland. Once they are up I'll let you know.

 

[Lean]

Great! Also, me and a friend of mine are going to play a PBEM with this bad boy, so I'll let you know how that goes!

Now if only ijnavy would come back and update his senarios...Heh.

 

[Traiano]

I'm basically done updating the mod to 5.1, including the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Yaroslav LH as Mindaugas of Lithuania).
I also reviewed the placement of a few Rus cities, and most importantly, I finally included all the GEM standard changes regarding commerce/ocean tiles/ etc. This requested quite a bit of work as I had to doublecheck the economies of each civ (civs are/were weakened by the change).

I should be able to upload it later today.

 

[Halt]

Great!

 

[Traiano]

Version 5.1, including the Gran Duchy of Lithuania and GEM standard modifications is now uploaded!

 

[Halt]

Sorry to report... The standard GEM changes do not appear to be in this version 5.1

Harbor still do not give +1C

Market and Banks still does not have +1 Trade Routes

I may be missing a few other items.

The main issue with this is it makes civilizations that use an expansion economy like Portugal unplayable by a Human.

For example 1 trade route is all you can get and financial does not get the bonus +1 C along with harbors.

Now ... this may be the intention of your mod rather than GEM standard, or an oversight.

Just an FYI

 

[Traiano]

Sorry to report... The standard GEM changes do not appear to be in this version 5.1

Harbor still do not give +1C

Market and Banks still does not have +1 Trade Routes

I may be missing a few other items.

The main issue with this is it makes civilizations that use an expansion economy like Portugal unplayable by a Human.

For example 1 trade route is all you can get and financial does not get the bonus +1 C along with harbors.

Now ... this may be the intention of your mod rather than GEM standard, or an oversight.

Just an FYI

That's bizarre.
I'll doublecheck why perusing the files. I also just sent you a pm, let me know about it.
Thanks.

 

[Halt]

Got your message. Will check each GEM scenario and generic GEM map both versions to make sure Kai has the same settings on each. Then I will compare his buildings and tile effects with 1205 and provide a list of the differences.

I hope this will help.

I will get in done over the next few days.

 

[Traiano]

Got your message. Will check each GEM scenario and generic GEM map both versions to make sure Kai has the same settings on each. Then I will compare his buildings and tile effects with 1205 and provide a list of the differences.

I hope this will help.

I will get in done over the next few days.

Oh, dont worry. I thought you knew them by memory. I'll look for them myself when I get a chance. Right now the changes that have been included are just regarding TERRAINS.

Considering I wont simply swap the original Xml files of GEM with those included in Clash (as there might be some differences like some units) I want to manually do the modifications. I was just trying to figure out if the modifications are all buildings related. Obviously if those include also traits (Financial) there might be different xmls to edit.
I was mainly curious to hear if any change was into SDK files or involved python or the dll, as in that case I dont think I'll go there.

Anyway, if you have to look and compare, dont worry, I'll look and peruse the xmls myself.

 

[Traiano]

Got your message. Will check each GEM scenario and generic GEM map both versions to make sure Kai has the same settings on each. Then I will compare his buildings and tile effects with 1205 and provide a list of the differences.

I hope this will help.

I will get in done over the next few days.

I think I have found nearly all of them. Now it is a matter of deciding which ones to implement. Some I like (i.e. Harbors, Cothons, Bank, Forum, Market) some I do not know yet (2gb per unit of maintenance).

I guess I'll play with it a bit and see what is the impact on the game.