"1984" Thought Experiment: how would the dystopia end?

[ParkCungHee]

That would support the idea that the soldiers are totally separated from the rest of the Oceanian society, like a separate caste. They probably never return home. I'd imagine they are something akin to mercenaries; their job is to fight somewhere in Africa or Asia, enjoy the few perks (you get to kill men, rape women and enslave their children) and then die one way or another. I'd assume they don't really care much what they're fighting for after a few years of it. If they can't handle the pressure, they're shot by political officers.

This all assumes the problem is getting them to fight, when remember the problem is getting them not to fight. Fighting necessarily includes the possibility of winning. The problem is you need an army that doesn't hate the enemy, doesn't listen to anything the state says about the enemy, and still keeps themselves button lipped and willing to die for a war they know is entirely cynical. Desperate man are certainly unqualified for such a task because they might be desperate enough to try winning.

It's very divergent goals they need out of their soldiers, and at some point the need for them to fight, or the need for them to lose is going to win out.

And on top of that, this requires some level of trust that the other powers won't try winning either.

 

[Tahuti]

Am I the only one who sees parallels between the Orwellian Endless war and the Israeli-Hamas conflict?

In both cases, both sides seem to be unable to totally destroy the other side as a viable political entity or even achieve a significant shift in power. In fact, they seem to realise this, yet continue on, in part to achieve legitimacy at home: Aggressive action against "the enemy" yield political points. Both sides are convinced of the evilness of each other. Yet occasionally, there are also gentlemen's agreements.

Furthermore, there is the thing that in Gaza, conditions actually strongly resemble that of Airstrip One: 1) The de-facto government utilises totalitarian governance through a radical interpretation of the Islamic faith. 2) the economic effects of Israel's blockade on Gaza, which will only be continued as long as Hamas continues to wage occasional bouts of attacks on Israel.

Now Israel doesn't have living conditions comparable to Airstrip One, but as with Hamas, Israeli politicians are regularly tempted to perform attacks on Gaza for the sake of popularity at home, which inadvertently resemble Endless War aspects as well.

 

[Borachio]

It doesn't take much of a stretch to see it everywhere, imo.

As soon as the Cold War ended, bam! it's the Muslims.

It may be as much a feature of media reporting as anything, though.

 

[Tahuti]

Ah yes. In case you have seen the movie adaption of 1984, try to replace Eurasia in the two minutes of hate scene with Islam, Israel, Democrats or any other popular object of revile. The scene will be every bit as believable as always, if not more.


Link to video.

 

[Graceheart the Leopard]

Ah yes. In case you have seen the movie adaption of 1984, try to replace Eurasia in the two minutes of hate scene with Islam, Israel, Democrats or any other popular object of revile. The scene will be every bit as believable as always, if not more.


Link to video.

We need to come up with a new law:

"Orwell's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Oceania or 1984 approaches one."

 

[Winner]

Or Big Brother. Especially in threads dealing with "1984" this tends to happen...

 

[Tahuti]

We need to come up with a new law:

"Orwell's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Oceania or 1984 approaches one."

Except that 1984 is a work of fiction and that the comparisons are primarily about the concepts, not the actions. So there is more legitimacy in comparing anything to Oceania than any real totalitarian regime.

Or Big Brother. Especially in threads dealing with "1984" this tends to happen...

 

[Takhisis]

The US has always been at war with Westasia.

 

[Winner]

Meanwhile in Eastasia:

We're talking about hypotheticals here, but these things *happen* in the real world...

 

[Takhisis]

Whom are you highlighting?

 

[Tahuti]

Kim Jung-Woon's uncle. He became an unperson.

 

[Takhisis]

Yes, I read about that later in the Grauniad and posted it in the Eastasia thread. Kim the Young-un's moves are far more aggressive and violent than those of his predecessors.

 

[Tahuti]

Yes, I read about that later in the Grauniad and posted it in the Eastasia thread. Kim the Young-un's moves are far more aggressive and violent than those of his predecessors.

I wouldn't be so certain about that. New leaders have entirely different connections and thus must more often than not hold drastic reshufflings in the people holding positions of power, lest he will deposed. This is especially true for dictatorships.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Well, given enough time, a resource-crash would be inevitable. Wars always consume more than you can steal.

But in the shorter term, a civil war inside any of the world's three ruling elites would be hard to avoid.

But the possibility of a natural disaster upsetting the balance-of-power seems to be overlooked. A 1918-flu that hits one power much harder than the rest. Massive crop failures in one region. Combine that with a military that actually thinks it is supposed to win and you have the makings for a nuclear exchange between one weakened power and the two stronger ones.

 

[Takhisis]

They might just switch alliances once again to keep the balance of power.