2 Himikos and 2 Freds confirmed. Does anyone recognize our last leader?

[Guandao]

Quill18 mentioned he wasn't allowed to show the part of the game which revealed new leaders. I guess those Youtubers who spoiled it aren't getting invites by Firaxis anymore...

 

[Sagax]

Did they get in trouble?

I don’t think it’s possible to get in any real trouble with this, as it’s not like they were intentionally going after these unrevealed leaders and opening all the info about their uniques. If FXS expected strict adherence with zero accidental leaks, then they are naive at best.

At the same time, one would expect an actual journalist org like IGN to be more compliant with the NDA and triple-check their footage. Oh well, #gamingjournalism

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Every time I read 'Himiko', I hear Deadpool saying it like he says 'Kimiko'

 

[AriochIV]

Nookrium shows all the options in game creation but specifically skips over all the unrevealed leaders and mentions he's not supposed to show them, so clearly they were told specific things they were not allowed to show. Unsurprisingly.

 

[ombak]

Nookrium shows all the options in game creation but specifically skips over all the unrevealed leaders and mentions he's not supposed to show them, so clearly they were told specific things they were not allowed to show. Unsurprisingly.

I think that's the scenario that Firaxis knew would result in Civ fans discovering the leaders, much like was the case with the far earlier images in 6. I imagine they were ok with that. I guess they won't be as happy with people outright showing them so we can screenshot and view the persona names and so on, but was a risk they were willing to take because it generates buzz that they want close to release.

 

[Josephias]

Yes, not sure why folks are framing it as “personas taking slots from other leaders”—they are much less effort than full leaders, so I doubt they’re replacing anything. The choice is probably “persona vs nothing” not “persona vs new leader.”

I find the issue here may be a marketing one more than one of actual choice. If marketing material was clear and consistent on 20 unique leaders + 5 personas, then your post will be completely sensible.

The moment FXS/2K or journalists start mixing it up and talk of 25 leaders or use phrases like “the largest initial leader rooster on civ history”, then the “missed out” leaders interpretation gains strenght, as personnas seem a way to “cheat” the compromise made in marketing material.

Adding to that, we must consider adding personas to “polemic” choices of leader (Napoleon, Himiko), doubles the injury for those who disliked the leader selection to begin with.

 

[untitledjuan]

I hope José Rizal's voiced lines are in a mix of Spanish and Tagalog, considering he wrote most of his literary work in Spanish and spoke Tagalog as his family language.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Maybe Firaxis will read this and realize they should have implemented wearable hats for the meta-progression system after all.

They honestly should have. Unlocking new cosmetics is the best part of Age of Wonders.

We should have straight up just had a create-a-leader system, with a few dozen pre-made by Firaxis using the tools available to the player. Want Abe Lincoln? Just use the chin beard and top hat. Want Trump? Orange skin tone and yellow hair. The faces may not be perfect, but that’s made up for by the far greater possibilities.

I’d be able to make all of the Biblical, mythological, literary, and modern characters which Firaxis is unlikely ever to implement.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

This reminds me vaguely of the "echo fighter" discourse years back from Smash Ultimate. For what it's worth, it's handled far better here

at least smash echo fighters represented new characters. i’d probably be more ok with new leaders having copycat abilities of existing leaders than the same leaders getting alternate forms

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I think that's the scenario that Firaxis knew would result in Civ fans discovering the leaders, much like was the case with the far earlier images in 6. I imagine they were ok with that. I guess they won't be as happy with people outright showing them so we can screenshot and view the persona names and so on, but was a risk they were willing to take because it generates buzz that they want close to release.

yeah the thing is we are only 3 leader reveals and like 4-ish civ(?) reveals out from the complete cast…so firaxis hand-wringing about reveals is one thing, but i can’t imagine this is *that* important to them considering we’d have had this info very soon anyway…doesn’t mean these accidental leakers don’t avoid potentially burning bridges with firaxis, just that i doubt firaxis will be too pressed.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I find the issue here may be a marketing one more than one of actual choice. If marketing material was clear and consistent on 20 unique leaders + 5 personas, then your post will be completely sensible.

The moment FXS/2K or journalists start mixing it up and talk of 25 leaders or use phrases like “the largest initial leader rooster on civ history”, then the “missed out” leaders interpretation gains strenght, as personnas seem a way to “cheat” the compromise made in marketing material.

Adding to that, we must consider adding personas to “polemic” choices of leader (Napoleon, Himiko), doubles the injury for those who disliked the leader selection to begin with.

this exactly. i just find the ambition in marketing isn’t necessarily matched by the game (as far as i have seen in reveal) outside of the introduction of the era system and the interesting civ choices. again, it’s not just the fact that the personas are counting towards the leader count, but also that the leader choices (bar Rizal, Ibn Battuta, Harriet Tubman, Lafayette, Trung Trac, Machiavelli, Amina and Tecumseh—not an insignificant amount, but more than dissapointing considering the amount of done-to-death leader choices) have been largely uninspiring, and a considerable amount represent a whopping 2 places (both napoleons, lafayette, charlamagne, tubman and franklin representing just the US and France)

add in the fact that there’s 0 representation for considerable parts of the world (1 total SE Asia civ, 0 Oceania leaders, no Britain, no Aztecs, no mesopotamia, extremely poor africa representation), and it’s not surprising why ppl are dissapointed.

The toxic positivity expected of ppl (and the related all-or-nothing mentality when it comes to critiques—that just because ppl are critiquing the game means they hate everything about it and won’t buy it) doesn’t serve anyone. I think it’s worth even the people who really like civ 7 and can’t fault it at all to at least understand that even if personas are “extra” and not oppositional to full leaders, they feel lazy when they were explicitly late game content-bulking features in civ 6, and that perception doesn’t just go away. Like I said, even echo-leaders who share the same ability but represent somewhere else and have their own model and flavor would be preferential to personas to at least me personally

 

[Kwami]

The toxic positivity expected of ppl (and the related all-or-nothing mentality when it comes to critiques—that just because ppl are critiquing the game means they hate everything about it and won’t buy it) doesn’t serve anyone.

Toxic negativity isn't any better.

Civilization VI shipped with only 20 leaders if you include the pre-order/DLC Aztec pack. So, we're already getting more leaders in this iteration, plus we're getting personas.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

The two Himikos will be named Himiko High Shaman and Himiko Queen of Wa.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Toxic negativity isn't any better.

Civilization VI shipped with only 20 leaders if you include the pre-order/DLC Aztec pack. So, we're already getting more leaders in this iteration, plus we're getting personas.

I like to think I’ve interacted by offering meaningful critiques of their strategy. If you don’t count the personas, it’s only 1 leader more, which is fine, but the new system kinda requires more leaders. And like I said, the personas aren’t the issue by themselves, it’s the personas + a poor leader cast + geographic imbalances in general

 

[PorkBean]

I'm guessing they've split Himiko into a Culture-focused persona and a... trade-focused one? Religion would seem an obvious choice except there's no Faith yield, and religion seems to take a back seat in Antiquity which is more or less Himiko's era. Everything we know about her comes from Chinese sources which referred to her as "Queen of Wa", so perhaps they extrapolated her tributary relationship with the Wei dynasty and turned it into an international trade ability.

It's definitely a stretch to give her two personas, though, given how little we know about her. Feels like it should be reserved for leaders that ruled in two distinct capacities or had multiple phases of their rule - I would have liked a Daimyo Tokugawa and Shogun Tokugawa, for example.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

this exactly. i just find the ambition in marketing isn’t necessarily matched by the game (as far as i have seen in reveal) outside of the introduction of the era system and the interesting civ choices. again, it’s not just the fact that the personas are counting towards the leader count, but also that the leader choices (bar Rizal, Ibn Battuta, Harriet Tubman, Lafayette, Trung Trac, Machiavelli, Amina and Tecumseh—not an insignificant amount, but more than dissapointing considering the amount of done-to-death leader choices) have been largely uninspiring, and a considerable amount represent a whopping 2 places (both napoleons, lafayette, charlamagne, tubman and franklin representing just the US and France)

add in the fact that there’s 0 representation for considerable parts of the world (1 total SE Asia civ, 0 Oceania leaders, no Britain, no Aztecs, no mesopotamia, extremely poor africa representation), and it’s not surprising why ppl are dissapointed.

The toxic positivity expected of ppl (and the related all-or-nothing mentality when it comes to critiques—that just because ppl are critiquing the game means they hate everything about it and won’t buy it) doesn’t serve anyone. I think it’s worth even the people who really like civ 7 and can’t fault it at all to at least understand that even if personas are “extra” and not oppositional to full leaders, they feel lazy when they were explicitly late game content-bulking features in civ 6, and that perception doesn’t just go away. Like I said, even echo-leaders who share the same ability but represent somewhere else and have their own model and flavor would be preferential to personas to at least me personally

When they said the game would be launched with the largest roster of leaders, they kept that promise, because as much as people hate it, a persona is a distinct choice of leader due to its uniqueness in gameplay. They mentioned the number of leader choices for the first time in the Modern Era Livestream, and they immediately mentioned that 21 unique leaders, 5 of whom would have 2 personas, leading to 26 choices, so I'm not sure why people feeling that they are cheated.

Regarding the feeling of disappointment some people may have over the inclusion or exclusion of some leaders, that is entirely subjective. You and some others may be upset because of the choices, the representation, blah blah, a whole lot of others do not. And as you can probably tell from real life, the upset people tend to be the most vocal and think that because there are so many complaints echoing their sentiments, they must be the majority, until they are proven definitively that just because they are the loudest in their complaints doesn't mean they are the majority.

Firaxis promised the most leaders at launch, they kept it. End of story. Whether you like the actual roster of leaders or not is not relevant to the initial promise, that is subjective.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I find the issue here may be a marketing one more than one of actual choice. If marketing material was clear and consistent on 20 unique leaders + 5 personas, then your post will be completely sensible.

The first mention of the number of leaders at launch was during the Modern Age livestream, where they explicitly stated there would be 21 leaders + 5 personas. The fact you got it wrong from another secondary source or misunderstood because you didn't do your own fact-checking was on you. If there exists promotional materials directly from Firaxis (either via their website or livestreams) where they stated there would be 26 unique leaders, I would like to see it.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm guessing they've split Himiko into a Culture-focused persona and a... trade-focused one? Religion would seem an obvious choice except there's no Faith yield, and religion seems to take a back seat in Antiquity which is more or less Himiko's era. Everything we know about her comes from Chinese sources which referred to her as "Queen of Wa", so perhaps they extrapolated her tributary relationship with the Wei dynasty and turned it into an international trade ability.

Religion is more or less tied to culture this iteration, and happiness somewhat. The Cultural Legacy path objective for the Exploration Age has to do with acquiring relics.

Queen of Wa could be Economic/Diplomatic like you mentioned.

 

[notNamed]

The two Himikos will be named Himiko High Shaman and Himiko Queen of Wa.

Has anyone shared any footage of her speaking yet?

add in the fact that there’s 0 representation for considerable parts of the world (1 total SE Asia civ,...

1? But we have the Khmer, Thai, Majapahit, obliquely Chola (culture with lots of influence on SEA) and Hawaii (culture originating in SEA).
I guess you meant maritime SEA cultures to restrict it to Majapahit?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Has anyone shared any footage of her speaking yet?

We have not seen her in action, ony her names and icons.