Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fippy, Mar 5, 2020.
Worth a new thread imo, here are quotes on this topic so far.
5H/turn for a worker chopping non-stop is just a rough benchmark, ofcourse it's much more complicated... When a worker has spent 5 turns imroving a irrigated corn the city that is working that tile now gained a boost of 3F per turn "forever". No extra workerturns invested required.
I don't really know specifics and have no clue if it's better or not here on this current map.
*Glancing at some of the screenshots again*
No, likely not I would say.
Key ingredients for me to consider lies in the capital area. Second and third city spots add to the consideration later.
Things I think capital has to have for it to look nice to go worker->worker is:
* Enough good tiles to improve early on. Say... you have 4-5 resources and/or some riverside grassland hill.
* Good quaility food, so that capital has no troubles at all growing fast enough to start working all tiles in aproximatly the same pace the worker improves them.
* Loads of forest to chop.
In such a situation, a lone worker would have to make tough choices between chopping and improving tiles. Where as with a two worker approach, one worker can run down the chain of improvements while the other chops!
And regarding second and third city...
I more often find myself going for mass settlers (like 4 cities and still at one worker) if there is lovely land available.
If there is possibilities to settle on bonus hammer tiles, and/or get insta-connections and also have 3F tiles available for such cities, they are quite good just as is. Or they can at least grow to pop2 in a reasonable timeframe and do a 1pop whip of their own worker.
It's rather when the city spots are places that really need a workers attention to become anything useful that second worker before settler becomes more attractive I think.
Really a worker should be able to join the settler as it's moving toward that city with lake-corn and copper so that it can start irrigate the corn the turn that city is settled. (Pre roading optional but often doesn't work out).
With just one worker, capital then has to slow down and get a new worker itself.
One nice thing in such situations is for the parting worker to at least finish one last chop into a new worker as a farewell gift to the capital where it was spawned, but that usually comes at the cost of that new cities food becoming improved a turn or so later which isn't really good either.
I understand. For me, the logical next step would be to find a map where you think two workers before a settler is plausible.
I did go 2 workers before settler in NC226.
But that was mainly because due to Vicky being IMP and I wanted to whip settlers and chop workers and I finished worker before it was time to whip the settler.
I'll try to generate a few maps and see if I find some map that we could try out.
What leader? Best to avoid imp/exp perhaps? Someone who start with agriculture or mining I guess.
i'm not sure how relevant this still is, but someone put a lot of math into this here if anyone is interested in a read: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/optimum-early-growth-strategy.154872/
Wow. I went 2 settlers before a worker, for the same reason.
Edit: If you look at our T50 situation (OK, I cheated one turn to settle 4th and 5th ) I'd say my position is better by a rather big margin? I could be wrong of course, hard to say without opening the save.
It's written in the ages of early vanilla versions, when chopping without math gave 30, which is a huge boost to worker-worker.
Yeah, I think since the discussion started in a game without IMP/EXP I'd stick to that for now. China?
Pedro78 linked me this: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...p-for-me-to-play.620140/page-32#post-15606379
Double pigs, double gold and lots to chop, so I agree that two workers seems like a good play!
Most likely just different.
The amount of roads indicate that there has been a surplus of worker turns during a period.
With more pressure from AI from the east, I would have gotten boxed in playing that way though.
Settlers early just for landgrabbing reasons are often so incredibly important on deity when the AIs start with a extra settler, that I think we often just take it for granted that cities quicker are optimal play.
That it in most situations is the best play doesn't help much either.
I played the China game opening with 2 workers, so we have another example.
Workers chopped 1w and 2w1s, then build a road 1w which speeds up settler moving by 1t and most likely also connects the cities (from what i can see, there's no river south of city square).
I lack AH (BW - wheel - hunting), but in other games there might be something else for food.
T30 2 workers & 1 settler looks nice tbh.
Yes, this certainly played a role in my decision making, though with ivory blocking land is not that important I guess.
Yes, thats the type of setup that works. The pressence of gold makes the extra commerce from second city (center, posible tiles, traderoutes) get even less valuable.
And just growing and working one more of these powertiles is almost as good as an entire new city by itself.
You have contact with Pedro? Did he get that installation up and running? I miss him!
Yes, that doesn't look bad at all! And it's in a situation where the factors I mentioned isn't fully present either.
Don't have a settler first to compare with here though.
It's of course not horrible, but a plains hill start and two good -resources will give good results no matter what. Are you forcing me to play the "standard"-line? Worker, grow to 4, whip.
Pedro is alive and kicking. I'm sure he'll be back.
I did some trials in the NCZara game, comparing settler at pop3, settler whipped 4->2 and settler whipped 6->3. If whipping the settler is the standard line I'm probably doing it wrong, because it always seeme to come out a turn or so later than just straight pop3 slowbuilding (chop assisted).
That was with a 2corn(one wet)+floodplains galore start and I thought whipping would be way better.
Ofcourse I did it in such a messy way that I lost all notes and only half-remember everything though!
Come to think about it... perhaps that Zara game was a case for double worker. It seems like most of the conditions I theoretized about are present there.
Nope i did that for you
Details..slavery switch at size 2 while worker improved wheat (reducing time with only 1 good tile), worker then chopped 2x.
Whipped settler asap, overflow + chop completes worker in 1t.
On t30 city settles (1t faster), Bejing 1 size smaller.
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