Lambert Simnel
One across
Complete meltdown for young Garcia last night. Probably best if we don't mention that when the Phillies fans are around, yeah Darkness ?
2011 MLB Thread
- Thread starter El Justo
- Start date
Not even close to old enough to remember it. Not that that changes the incident one way or another. The point was that this exact issue has been considered many times over many decades. It is part of baseball. The point of the game is to score runs. Players are allowed to go all out in pursuit of, or in an attempt to prevent runs. Home plate is where runs are scored. Sometimes something goes wrong there. More people get hurt sliding than colliding with the catcher, but we still allow them to dive for the bag.
Catchers are protected. They have body armor and the defensive ground. If they properly assess the situation (easier said than done in a split second decision, i know) and position themselves accordingly the chance of injury is reduced. It is a full contact situation, injuries will ALWAYS be present, but a memorable injury every decade or two doesn't mean the rules should be changed, regardless of the fact that it was an up and coming young star.
Darkness
Shadow creature
Why not?
I am perfectly capable at seeing and admitting my teams flaws...
But indeed a crappy performance. Let's just hope that Lohse keeps up the good work and we get a win tonight.
How do you do it? You would have to mandate that the catcher cannot block the plate. The biggest foe to that rule change would be: catchers.
Alternatively, you could say that the runner cannot hit the catcher if the catcher is not blocking the plate. My concerns would be a) that would lead to another layer of game changing judgment calls by umps; and b) it might not actually stop any injuries because a person throwing home is throwing in the vicinity of homeplate, and the catcher needs to also be somewhere around homeplate to catch the ball and apply the tag, so you will still wind up with catchers getting barreled over.
This has been a part of baseball for a long time. People get injured once in a while on freak plays like Posey's. Catchers get hit all the time; Posey happened to be in an awkward position and it looks like his cleat got stuck in the ground when he got barreled over which did not help.
So where do you draw the line on this stuff? Would we be debating a rule change if it was some no name catcher who got hurt? Would Football have changed the rules on low hits on QBs if someone not named Tom Brady had their leg broken on a sack? The next time a batter gets beaned in the face are we going to make pitchers undergo mandatory 5 day suspensions or something? I think rule changes are warranted in circumstances that arise constantly, like poor umpiring of HR calls or something. But changing the rules after one off injuries to superstars leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Lambert Simnel
One across
Why not?
I am perfectly capable at seeing and admitting my teams flaws...
But indeed a crappy performance. Let's just hope that Lohse keeps up the good work and we get a win tonight.
Salas made it interesting in the 9th, but a win nonetheless. Pretty good road trip for the Cards, overall.
Lambert Simnel
One across
Actually, where I live, Posey is a no-name. I could mention his name to everyone in my street, and everyone in the office where I work, and not one of them would know who he was. Which is not to say I don't think he's an exciting young player, but there's absolutely no chance that I'm being caught up in some popular hysteria about this, cos no-one over here gives a damn. I wasn't a fan of Fielder's attempted take-out on Whiteside if that's what you're getting at.
We've had debates over tradition in other threads (especially around using instant replays), and I seem to be in the camp of "tradition, schmadition" if we can make any of the sports I care about safer or more just. So I'm not, personally, that moved by any argument which is on the lines of "it's always been that way".
I do accept the point though that it's yet another judgement call for the umpires, and one which will lead to debate and some wrong calls - fair point.
Anyway, look at it this way: if Fielder had managed to injure Whiteside, then the Giants would be down to their 3rd best catcher. Personally, I want to see the best team win, not just the deepest squad. To use your phrase, " for my hard earned coin" I want to see teams play their best players, not just the ones who are left standing after a series of WWF-style takedowns.
But collisions at the plate is how it has always been, and it has never once in 100+ years degenerated into a 'series of WWF-style takedowns'. Why change the rule now?
Lambert Simnel
One across
The WWF comment was meant as exaggeration for comic effect. Perhaps I should have put some kind of smiley at the end of it.
Why change it now ? Arguably players are bigger and faster, and are hitting with more impact. But, as I said above, just because "it's always been that way" doesn't particularly impress me as an argument for allowing one baseball player to take a free hit at another (or for anything else).
Why change it now ? Arguably players are bigger and faster, and are hitting with more impact. But, as I said above, just because "it's always been that way" doesn't particularly impress me as an argument for allowing one baseball player to take a free hit at another (or for anything else).
Well it's not just that we've done it one way for so long, it's that we have done it one way for a while and (1) everything has basically been fine, barring the occasional injury, and (2) I don't see how we can change the rules to lessen the risk without substantially altering an important part of the game.
sophie
Break My Heart
I say keep the same rules, but if you hit the catcher and he gets hurt to the point where he has to be taken out of the game you're auto-ejected.
That way I satisfy the super-conservative baseball purist in me while at the same time offering something productive.
That way I satisfy the super-conservative baseball purist in me while at the same time offering something productive.
Rashiminos
Fool Prophet
This, although perhaps Cousins will think about sliding in the future.
That seems like pointless retribution to me. A borderline dirty play would still go unpunished as long as nobody got hurt, but a clean play that got someone hurt would be punished. That's not improving anything.
sophie
Break My Heart
Meh, it just means the runners have to think carefully about whether or not they really want to go through with whatever it is they're doing.
Alternatively, we could just go to college rules and say if you collide with the catcher the run doesn't count and you get auto-ejected, although that seems too over the top for my tastes.
El Justo
Deity
i would say no to any rule changes for home plate collisions, especially at the pro level. scholastically, a totally different deal and one where there are pretty good preventions already in place.
while it really stinks to see a guy get hurt like that, i'm going to play devil's advocate for a hot second and broach the subject of a catcher's ability to anticipate a collision and sort of react top a runner's intentions. yes, split second reaction times are needed but i know for a fact that catchers are taught to guard the plate at different angles and such. may seem like i'm picking nits here but i have not seen this issue brought up anywhere wrt to the injury to posey. and before the lunk heads here get all over me, no, i am not saying it was posey's fault. what i am asking is could he have not simply planted himself there, awaiting the brutal collision? could he have been angled just a bit to avoid that direct hit on his leg? maybe. and a question worth asking imo amidst all the debate.
another topic not discussed thus far here in this thread is bartolo colon's apparent discovery of the fountain of youth. for those not familiar, dude had a controversial medical procedure performed this past winter where he had his own stem cells and bone marrow tissue (i think) injected into his elbow and shoulder which have resulted in 95mph fastballs again from the rotund righty agree with the procedure? good for the game? a PED issue? maybe. for me, if it's matter taken from the guy's body, ie not a foreign substance, then i don't have a problem with it. a slippery slope on both sides of the debate though.
while it really stinks to see a guy get hurt like that, i'm going to play devil's advocate for a hot second and broach the subject of a catcher's ability to anticipate a collision and sort of react top a runner's intentions. yes, split second reaction times are needed but i know for a fact that catchers are taught to guard the plate at different angles and such. may seem like i'm picking nits here but i have not seen this issue brought up anywhere wrt to the injury to posey. and before the lunk heads here get all over me, no, i am not saying it was posey's fault. what i am asking is could he have not simply planted himself there, awaiting the brutal collision? could he have been angled just a bit to avoid that direct hit on his leg? maybe. and a question worth asking imo amidst all the debate.
another topic not discussed thus far here in this thread is bartolo colon's apparent discovery of the fountain of youth. for those not familiar, dude had a controversial medical procedure performed this past winter where he had his own stem cells and bone marrow tissue (i think) injected into his elbow and shoulder which have resulted in 95mph fastballs again from the rotund righty
agree with the procedure? good for the game? a PED issue? maybe. for me, if it's matter taken from the guy's body, ie not a foreign substance, then i don't have a problem with it. a slippery slope on both sides of the debate though.Or it means that a catcher snags a spike on the plate and a clean play gets punished. I really think that the extreme infrequency of these types of injuries indicates that the rules work.
another topic not discussed thus far here in this thread is bartolo colon's apparent discovery of the fountain of youth. for those not familiar, dude had a controversial medical procedure performed this past winter where he had his own stem cells and bone marrow tissue (i think) injected into his elbow and shoulder which have resulted in 95mph fastballs again from the rotund righty
While I'm disappointed he didn't try this the year he was on the Red Sox, I'm all for it. For the life of me i can't understand why it's OK for someone to get eye surgery that gives him 20/15 vision, but it's not OK to have your injuries treated by certain hormones that have acquired a bad reputation.
bestrfcplayer
Steppin' up!
Cleveland winning 13 to 3 right now. They were starting to scare me a bit, but I think that they got their bats swinging again, so everything's good.
El Justo
Deity
cowherd on espn radio this morning played an audio clip of SF GM sabean whining about the cousins-posey collision and basically called out cousins for being dirty. cowherd had a feild day with it 
asking what sabean thought about his own players barreling over catchers referenced a tough collision last year in the nlcs and another one from several years ago (when he was gm) where jt snow demolished pudge. and fwiw, finally, someone noted that posey's positioning to block the dish was questionable. good on you cowherd. this is why you're the best voice in sports radio
asking what sabean thought about his own players barreling over catchers referenced a tough collision last year in the nlcs and another one from several years ago (when he was gm) where jt snow demolished pudge. and fwiw, finally, someone noted that posey's positioning to block the dish was questionable. good on you cowherd. this is why you're the best voice in sports radio
Darkness
Shadow creature
Cousins is getting death threats about the Posey injury
That's just disgusting.
Yes, the collision could've been avoided, but the play was clean!
In other news, the Giants' GM is a complete moron. I understand he's disappointed to lose Posey for the season, but those remarks were completely uncalled for...
That's just disgusting.
Yes, the collision could've been avoided, but the play was clean!
In other news, the Giants' GM is a complete moron. I understand he's disappointed to lose Posey for the season, but those remarks were completely uncalled for...
I never really liked Sabean and in a perverse way SF's recent champinship has "Danny Ainge'd" the Giants, i.e. his suckiness is now shrouded by a championship, buying him more time in a spot he shouldn't be in.
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