Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Marsden, Aug 16, 2006.
I'll be following. Perhaps yo should do always war with powerful civ? :j/k:
Looking forward to this! I think we all will be a bit older by the time you are done with this one.
I took Portugal first, for 20k on chieftan, but I followed a few restraints. I didn't build any scouts or have barbarians on, plus I didn't build any ships at all. As it was my biggest mistake was not getting a better starting map, only 9 out of the tiles in the city radius produces shields.
I didn't have enough shield power here. Because I'm on chieftan, my only opponent is my own ability. The AIs are practically non existant. I picked Arabia, America, Russia and Hittites. All expansionist, hoping I come across their scouts to get their starting tech. I started on writing, aiming for CoL Philo and Rep. I found Hittites first, Russia second and the other 2 later. This hurt my plan to get an early temple.
Right after I made the trade, I switched to The Colossus, shortly I revolted to republic 3 turns before it was to finish. I thought with only 3 town I would have a short anarchy, but 5 turns is what I got.
3 turns later, the Colossus is completed and I get my Golden age.
I got my first SGL for currency, which also was the last AA tech, I started on Mono. and then right to Theo. and Ed. straight to Free Art. I finished the MoM and then the Oracle, then rushed the ToA. I then built GL, HG, SoZ, then started Sistine only to switch to Shakespeare's magic theater which can take the place of a hospital. No doctors need here, we have actors! By then I build Bach's. Then I build Coper. and Newton. Finally I came back to Sistine's. Of course, anything other than chieftan and this would be impossible, but the AI were largely invisible.
This is my first threat, which I promptly refused.
I had all eight luxuries. Most were right around me, I stole the wines and gems from the Hittites and furs from the Russians with aggressive settling.
This is the first of many defections to my side.
My second and last SGL came with Corporation. I used it for Universal. I was going to use it for ToE, but suff. makes 4 culture and costs 800, ToE makes 3 and costs 600. I also built Hoover and Wall street. I didn't fish for MGLs, another thing that might have helped.
This is the first AI built wonder, note the date.
Here is the final ending screen.
And the Victory Screen.
My goal was around 1500, but I was hoping to beat 1754. Well I did by just ONE turn. Overall, I rate this as a 'D' disappointing but made the table. If it was listed now with no other entries it would be ranked 9 on the chart, with no extra rankings.
I forgot a final city screen shot and my notes about what year things were built in. I will add these later to this post.
EDIT: Added shots.
To everyone, yes I will keep up with this to the end, so even if a week goes by without activity just know I haven't given up.
@Eltrai, I am guessing about a year, maybe 15 months.
@Carmen, I will definitely be doing some warmongering, just not yet. And I'm not good enough for variants, I have enough trouble getting the job done without extras.
@Azzaman, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
@Tone, I am hoping all 31 are still on the tables, if not I'll just have to go back and do them again. And as you might have read just above I did aim higher, just didn't make it.
@FascistRepublic and j eps, thanks for stopping by. I am going over the order and will give a tentative schedule.
@E626, hey, see how to make a HoF game, it's not out of reach.
As always, your suggestions are welcome, and I do take them seriously even if I don't implement them.
@Vorlon, you can choose everything, opponents, civ, map size and settings, victory. You just need to follow the rules: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ3/rules.php
I wonder what superslug thinks about this. I think this thread is going to be a big civ 3 HoF plug if one ever existed.
For my next game, I am going to take the Hittites on Regent with a standard size map and go for Diplomatic victory. I have decided on a rough order to take the civs, worst to best. I will further define what I feel is best, but you won't be seeing any scientific or agricultural civs too soon.
Nice Marsden. There aren't enought good old fashioned (abbreviated) turnlogs like this anymore.
Not a bad date with that starting position. Not only is your starting position sheild poor, your feeder cities are food poor.
Just one thing: more workers early on?
well done! I'm not sure there are many *worse* civs for a 20K game than Portugal. No cheap culture buildings, fast workers, food bonuses, free techs or increased SGL chance (though that's not really that big a deal), and playing on pangea reduces the number of coastal cities, while playing without goody huts kind of makes being expansionist useless.
Oh yes - and the most obvious first wonder build gives you a GA!!
One down, 30 to go!
This game showed me that even a poor starting position can be won.
Nice game. Looking forward to more. Great plugs for the HOF.
Be cool if you went over the whole game. (Like seperated in different threads but that would waste server space )
Thanks, everyone. I guess I am my own worst critic, or you are too polite to say this was a bomb. Where's sanabas? He usually tells me how bad I am. I'm just joking with you, thanks again. As you can see the start is vital to 20k, more so than any of the others. I really should have tried another start, but I get tired of looking and I don't have mapfinder. Yes, I know it's free and I can download it, but I haven't and probably won't. Same thing for Civ Assist. Just so you know.
And with out further ado...
My list, from worst to best and probably the order of play for this thread.
Note, this is my opinion, subject to change, and from limited experience as I have not played everyone of these civs, actually I have played them all but Spain and Arabia, but this is based on traits, uu, and whether I like the civ or not. Also, what might be considered "good" for most doesn't always apply to HoF games. Almost all my games are submitted to the HoF so this is a big influence on my opinion. I also favor Spaceship/Culture games over early conquest/domination so scientific is extremely important to me. I bet a lot of people are wondering why Maya isn't number 1. I can tell you, I hate them. I had to rank them high by virtue of their trait combo, but I don't like the spearchucker and Smoke Jaguar is ugly, and I don't like seeing that looking back at me, that's one of the reasons I like to Kill the mayans asap.
Edit: The Hittite debacle has begun. More detail to follow.
man - once you go with mapfinder, you will *never* go back...
Game looks pretty decent to me, you kept the economy good enough to rush colosseum/cath/uni, the biggest problem is the one you already pointed out, that the start sucks. If you want me to nitpick, I see two other possible issues: SoZ wasn't built until 30AD, which is pretty late if you have Ivory close. And Shake's wasn't built until 830, which is very, very late for Chieftain. Research Lab wasn't until 1685, which suggests the same problem, that your research speed was very slow. Quicker research, earlier Shake's would make a big difference.
Actually, looking at the screenies, you don't have a factory at the end of the game. Did you sell it off for some reason?
I have CA2, but only use it for predicting finish dates, I use CRPMapstat for checking trades & unhappiness.
I'm looking forward to reading the rest of your games, and hoping others reading start looking at the HoF too.
You might. I only use it occasionally, I prefer to generate my starts by hand most of the time.
You've done it now by publishing that list, even with the 'this is (only) my opinion' disclaimer. This could start off a breakaway thread in the forums!
Anyway, Regent Hittites next for Diplo. Well at least you start off with Alphabet although the three man chariot is a poor UU. (Just wait until you get to Egypt-now that's what I call a chariot.) I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes.
Good job. Kepp it up with them Hittites.
I am just attaching possible victory conditions that in most cases ignore civ traits, but are somewhat historically accurate.
Marsden Ranking, Civilization, Historical Victory Condition
1. Portugal Culture, Domination (exploration)
2. Hittites Conquest, Domination
3. Spain Domination (New Spain), Conquest (Conquestadores)
4. Zulu Diplomatic (Kofi Annan), Conquest (Boer War)
5. Mongols Conquest
6. Arabia Domination (Goes well with the expansionist)
7. Scandinavia Conquest, Diplomatic (Trygve Lie, Dag Hammerskjöld)
8. Dutch Domination
9. India Cultural, Diplomatic (Peaceful Ghandiji)
10. Japan Conquest, Domination (WWII)
11. England Domination (the empire), Diplomatic, Cultural
12. Carthage Conquest
13. America Diplomatic, Space Race, Cultural (Hollywood, etc.)
14. Rome Diplomatic (first democracy), Domination (the other empire)
15. Egypt Conquest, Wonder???, Diplomatic (Boutros Boutros-Ghali)
16. Aztecs Conquest
17. Germany Conquest, Domination (WWI, WWII)
18. Inca Diplomatic (Javier Pérez de Cuéllar), Conquest
19. Maya Diplomatic (Javier Pérez de Cuéllar), Conquest
20. Celts Conquest
21. China Conquest, Domination, Space Race
22. France Histographic (WWII after they were gone they just kept staying alive), but really Cultural
23. Babylon Wonder (Mesopotamia), Cultural
24. Korea Diplomatic (U Thant, okay so he's Burmese, but it works with S. Korea), cultural
25. Greece Diplomatic (Athens, arguably world's oldest democracy)
26. Persia Cultural, Wonder, Conquest
27. Ottoman Domination, Cultural
28. Russia Space Race, Diplomatic (huge influence in UN, 3 seats), Domination
29. Byzantine Histographic (see France. replace WWII with fall of rome), Cultural
30. Sumeria Cultural, Conquest
31. Iroquois Cultural, Conquest (early colonization), Diplomatic (Six Nations)
these are only somewhat historicly accurate somewhat, and other than arabia have nothing to do with the game.
Hello, everybody! I've been away a few days, but I got some progress on this. The Hittities. The worst thing was thinking of new city names.
This shocked me, they are on the far side of the landmass, and attack with 1 warrior. I had some undefended cities but they attacked one with a swordsman that failed.
(yes, I'm researching republic, somehow Germany got philo before me.)
I asked the Russians for an alliance, and I only saw one more Byzantine warrior which fortified by the same city. I sent the swordsman out to kill him.
Switching to republic during the war.
The Russians brought Germany in on their side! This was good as now the Byzantines could never touch me.
I build 1 3man chariot. It's ten ad..
This was a bit silly, I drive the chariot all over Byzantine lands uncontested searching for an easy kill. Finally, I catch an archer, bam.
Peace deal, no losses on my side, I killed just 2 warriors and a archer and they give me a town.
I yanked a city from my other neighbors, the Persians, who were surprisingly weak this time around.
It's 1000ad and my research isn't going as quickly as I'd hoped.
Plus I find I don't have rubber.
The Germans suddenly attack me! My terrible outdated army is unprepared and they destroy North Shore. The Swordsman defending it lost to a Rifleman. I don't think the Germans had horses, I saw no cavalry.
I call in some help.
I could have stopped sooner, but I want that rubber. I don't see much from the Russians or Koreans, but the Persians go to town on Germany.
I didn't want to bother bringing in Greece and Babylon because they are too far away.
During the war the Koreans gave no help. Then I see a lone cavalry, I was suspicious, and they attacked me. I was getting about 125gpt from them, I think when the AI are going bankrupt paying the bills they use this to get out of it. I call in their neighbors the Babylonians, plus everyone else for good measure, but I never send any troops their way. The only reason I'm still at war with Germany is I don't want to break any alliances.
This is just a town I managed to sneak onto the Greek peninsula. Turned out to be a valuable asset.
Just because the land is desolate doesn't mean it isn't worth it (sometimes).
I picked all scientific opponents to get the free techs at each age change from them. The first two went well, but going into the modern, 2 got fisson and 3 got ecology, but they wouldn't sell for anything! I was going to put the whole kingdom up for mortgage for fission, but no. I researched it in 6 turns, at least knowing 2 powers with the tech cut down on research time.
I got a sgl for astronomy, and I saved him all this time, I see no downside as I rush the UN as soon as I learn fission. I realise this prevents me from ever getting an mgl, but I wasn't expecting to fight much.
Vote immediately. I assume Babylon will be my opponent, but all of the land the Persians took from Germany but them on the ballot. Xerxes would have voted for me but its ok, everyone else votes for me but the 2 idiots I'm at war with. I got just enough. Even the Byzantines votes for me, I wasn't sure, but with the alliance, and the fact I didn't attack any of their cities really didn't cause that much bad feelings, I guess.
I'm kind of disappointed, but it was a fun game. I'm starting to respect expansionist a bit more, but its still my least favorite. This should make number 3 on the table. I was shooting for number 2.
I am going to try a 20k again with Spain. I am going to try to follow sanabas's idiot's guide more this time, and build the collossus sooner.
I just hate the face they gave Isabella. She doesn't even look real, more like an alien.
I thought this looked like a much better start.
Built the collossus and the pyramids and golden age.
Oracle was my other choice, and that still would have caused the same thing.
Not much of an empire in 1000bc.
Filling in more, I have 2 colonies up north, on by gems and one by furs.
This one was kind of dull, no wars. I didn't have iron until I yanked St Petersburg from the Russians.
I finally win in 1720. This only gets me number 6 on the table. I had a better start, but hardly a better date. I think no ivory for Zeus and 0 sgls slowed things down.
The city screen.
I make two mistakes that I noticed, I didn't get the city up to size as soon as I should have and I had coal but it was under the name of one of my cities and I missed it. Forgot to use clean map, I was bored and automated some of my workers and one of them connected the coal for me. I was surprised to suddenly be able to railroad and not know how until I notice the guy making a road in the jungle. Probably didn't make too much difference, but things add up.
I thought I might switch gears and try a harder difficulty for a change.
I'm going for domination, hoping for the number 2 slot. I have no delusions about beating Moonsinger out of the number 1.
This seemed good enough to go.
Not a lot of shots this time, I was too busy cursing and complaining about picking too difficult a level for myself. I was on zero research for about 2/3rds of the game. Took turns extorting Japan and India. I never revolted from despotism, either. I had an Impi whack a Japanese archer.
I'm almost bald ripping my hair out at this point. I just started the war against England, by far the leader over all. I was surprised to find out later that they researched the top of the middle ages tech tree, and they didn't have iron.
The English were nice enough to build me the ToA in their capital. I razed or captured all of the other cities. I had a lot of good luck, got 3 mgls all for armies. I had a swordsman army, an ancient cavalry army and the last army hardly saw action was crusaders. I captured Zeus from the Indians and except for one flip I kept it going the whole game. I also got to see something that doesn't happen very often, one of my ancient cavalry attacked an Indian ancient cavalry. Just imagine that grunting noise they make when they attack doubled! I got Knights Templar from the English. I built nothing but barracks and units the whole game. Not a single other building got finished. This is 6 turns after I took London. The temple makes is so easy. After the expansion I went from 30 some to 64% land area. I could'nt believe I was so close. I immediately grabbed 2 towns from India and next turn I win.
Victory Screen, my 3rd highest score ever.
This will get me number 2 on the table. Too bad it doesn't actually improve my standing for the quartermasters, but it also makes it harder for my to fall down either.
Next time, Mongols large monarch conquest.
very cool, Marsden! why were you cursing? You kicked that games butt!!
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