SuperNoobCamper
King
Instead of the mission.
- Thread starter pineappledan
- Start date
Napoleon Blownaparte
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2018
- Messages
- 12
I'd like to piggyback on what PAD quoted from earlier about the bullring.
I believe I was far too hasty in my evaluation given that I dismissed a new mechanic as just 'alright'. I'd like to emphasize what I think makes a UB cool and what makes it in my own words 'squarely in the realm of skola and coffee house, probably fine and probably balanced'.
First I'd like to look at a relatively benign (relative to the rest of the civ) UB: the Songhai 4UC addition of the 'Gumey'. It's very similar to me because it replaces a building as a habitual warmonger I would tend to delay. If you look at it just via yields it's 'probably fine, and probably balanced' it adds gold to nearby luxuries and then emphasizes what the caravansary already does. However, and this is the part that makes me think it's cool: it encourages you to plan your trade routes out a little more to get the additional 2g2p2c bonus for a trade route through the city tile. You could probably just make it 4g4p4c on the building and it'd be fine but that little bit of thought that it encourages wrt the rivers as roads part of the UA and road planning as a whole, makes me think it's a cool building.
I'd like to follow that up with an extreme example, something I consider the ideal for a UB: powerful, early, different, makes you think a little. 'Sachem's Council' the Iroquois replacement for scriveners office. It's awesome. It gives you a bit of everything and also really encourages you to look at the map a little differently to find new ways to synergize or optimize this new UC. I like the Parthenon-esque nationwide yield increases for sure but the cool bit is definitely in the 'reciprocity' promotion. In the end it's just yields for the capital but it feels cool to use and I always want to make sure I get the most I can from every GD. Even though it's only a couple of yields plus or minus it makes you think and I really that.
Looking at the current iteration of the 'Bullring' I think I feel underwhelmed because I can't figure out a way to interact with it other than WTLKD percentage boost synergies. The faith and culture instant yield on WTLKD then seems antisynergistic because you'll be triggering them less often due to the increased length right? It's entirely possible that the things I'm unsure of could be explained by a player with more experience and I've been making mountains out of molehills.
I hope what I've said makes sense and goes somewhat towards excusing my ignominious behavior earlier. I do not want to discourage people with the knowledge and wherewithal to continue to improve on this mod. Cheers guys and keep up the good work.
I believe I was far too hasty in my evaluation given that I dismissed a new mechanic as just 'alright'. I'd like to emphasize what I think makes a UB cool and what makes it in my own words 'squarely in the realm of skola and coffee house, probably fine and probably balanced'.
First I'd like to look at a relatively benign (relative to the rest of the civ) UB: the Songhai 4UC addition of the 'Gumey'. It's very similar to me because it replaces a building as a habitual warmonger I would tend to delay. If you look at it just via yields it's 'probably fine, and probably balanced' it adds gold to nearby luxuries and then emphasizes what the caravansary already does. However, and this is the part that makes me think it's cool: it encourages you to plan your trade routes out a little more to get the additional 2g2p2c bonus for a trade route through the city tile. You could probably just make it 4g4p4c on the building and it'd be fine but that little bit of thought that it encourages wrt the rivers as roads part of the UA and road planning as a whole, makes me think it's a cool building.
I'd like to follow that up with an extreme example, something I consider the ideal for a UB: powerful, early, different, makes you think a little. 'Sachem's Council' the Iroquois replacement for scriveners office. It's awesome. It gives you a bit of everything and also really encourages you to look at the map a little differently to find new ways to synergize or optimize this new UC. I like the Parthenon-esque nationwide yield increases for sure but the cool bit is definitely in the 'reciprocity' promotion. In the end it's just yields for the capital but it feels cool to use and I always want to make sure I get the most I can from every GD. Even though it's only a couple of yields plus or minus it makes you think and I really that.
Looking at the current iteration of the 'Bullring' I think I feel underwhelmed because I can't figure out a way to interact with it other than WTLKD percentage boost synergies. The faith and culture instant yield on WTLKD then seems antisynergistic because you'll be triggering them less often due to the increased length right? It's entirely possible that the things I'm unsure of could be explained by a player with more experience and I've been making mountains out of molehills.
I hope what I've said makes sense and goes somewhat towards excusing my ignominious behavior earlier. I do not want to discourage people with the knowledge and wherewithal to continue to improve on this mod. Cheers guys and keep up the good work.
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pineappledan
Deity
Longer WLTKDs and instant yields on WLTKDs are both unique abilities but, as you say, they are anti-synergistic.
Something that would be synergistic is if the Bullring gave the instant yields on WLTKD and also gave Spain a unique WLTKD trigger. Maybe just 8-10 turns?
Ideally, the trigger would be something localized, since Hippodrome already gives a global WLTKD trigger. It would have to be something that is infrequent enough that it doesn't just result in frustration because you are constantly refreshing your desired lux.
Maybe whenever you complete a public works project? Spain goes wide, so they will probably be building at least a few of those, and then you also have this guaranteed WLTKD trigger available whenever you want it.
Something that would be synergistic is if the Bullring gave the instant yields on WLTKD and also gave Spain a unique WLTKD trigger. Maybe just 8-10 turns?
Ideally, the trigger would be something localized, since Hippodrome already gives a global WLTKD trigger. It would have to be something that is infrequent enough that it doesn't just result in frustration because you are constantly refreshing your desired lux.
Maybe whenever you complete a public works project? Spain goes wide, so they will probably be building at least a few of those, and then you also have this guaranteed WLTKD trigger available whenever you want it.
Napoleon Blownaparte
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2018
- Messages
- 12
When you complete a public works project everyone goes on holiday for some good ol' fashioned blood sport.
It sounds cool and I like that I can interact with it directly. Often times as a warmonger it's very difficult to acquire the luxuries for WLTKD simply because you've pissed everyone off. This does of course not apply when you control two thirds of the world but prior to that WTLKD can be very hit or miss. Does WLTKD also give a needs reduction in addition to growth or am I confusing that with something else? Regardless, that's quite a bit of potential happiness all rolled into one action and I really like that as a warmonger. It's a shame to throw out the length bonus because it is unique as well but I definitely prefer what you've just proposed PAD.
It sounds cool and I like that I can interact with it directly. Often times as a warmonger it's very difficult to acquire the luxuries for WLTKD simply because you've pissed everyone off. This does of course not apply when you control two thirds of the world but prior to that WTLKD can be very hit or miss. Does WLTKD also give a needs reduction in addition to growth or am I confusing that with something else? Regardless, that's quite a bit of potential happiness all rolled into one action and I really like that as a warmonger. It's a shame to throw out the length bonus because it is unique as well but I definitely prefer what you've just proposed PAD.
I'll just drop in to comment on the nice artwork. 
Regardless of the yields/function, I think that Hacienda + Bullring probably bring more flavour and is 'cooler' than a Mission + Hacienda combo.
Regardless of the yields/function, I think that Hacienda + Bullring probably bring more flavour and is 'cooler' than a Mission + Hacienda combo.
General_Drax
Warlord
@pineappledan In my last game I conquered Incas with Rome. So I got access to Cocoa due to Rome UA. On trade screen I could sell it for an absurd amount of gold like 50gpt. I restrained myself to exploit the bug but should be easy to reproduce.
pineappledan
Deity
thats a trade logic issue, should post it on the github if it isn’t already there
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2013
- Messages
- 2,387
I do not like that Bullring idea at all if the Spain change gets pushed. The UI is already terrain reliant, this boosting Pastures/Forests/etc is a bit lame, especially when it comes in that late.
My thoughts on uniques I played around with:
Really big fan of Iroquois uniques, they just work great. They're some of the coolest ones in the mod, but a question - do the yields from Embassies update? Like, I pop it on my Ally Geneva, and it turns into a Friend later. Are my yields halved? And if I pop it on a non-ally and get allied, do the yields get boosted? From what it seems like, they're only counting it at the moment of being planted, not after.
Maya are probably too easy to ball with, and they turn out sort of boring to play as a result. UU helped me get an early edge from ruins I can't really get with any other civ, and you will get the ruins. Because Pathfinder-Scout types cannot get the crappy 10~XP ruin, it ultimately is far stronger than Pocatello's pick your ruin gimmick. UB reinforces the civ as well by also being very powerful. I am fine with some uniques and civs being stronger and I believe overt balancing can ruin the fun, I'm just saying what I think - and I think this is probably the strongest 4UC set.
Can't say much good about Incan ones. I don't like them at all. The Scout has no purpose compared to other similar uniques. It goes faster in your territory and mountains, but it's not strong enough to make proper defensive use of it. Mayan pathfinder effectively doubles your ruins and has a promotion helping him get more, Polynesian is stronger and more unique while also being much easier to get on an average map (UA can easily equal more ruins). Granary would be less annoying if the resource removal didn't limit where I can place it. I don't even benefit from the resource being planted beyond the first one.
The OP is not correct about the CS values for Barbican and Mughal Fort.
My thoughts on uniques I played around with:
Really big fan of Iroquois uniques, they just work great. They're some of the coolest ones in the mod, but a question - do the yields from Embassies update? Like, I pop it on my Ally Geneva, and it turns into a Friend later. Are my yields halved? And if I pop it on a non-ally and get allied, do the yields get boosted? From what it seems like, they're only counting it at the moment of being planted, not after.
Maya are probably too easy to ball with, and they turn out sort of boring to play as a result. UU helped me get an early edge from ruins I can't really get with any other civ, and you will get the ruins. Because Pathfinder-Scout types cannot get the crappy 10~XP ruin, it ultimately is far stronger than Pocatello's pick your ruin gimmick. UB reinforces the civ as well by also being very powerful. I am fine with some uniques and civs being stronger and I believe overt balancing can ruin the fun, I'm just saying what I think - and I think this is probably the strongest 4UC set.
Can't say much good about Incan ones. I don't like them at all. The Scout has no purpose compared to other similar uniques. It goes faster in your territory and mountains, but it's not strong enough to make proper defensive use of it. Mayan pathfinder effectively doubles your ruins and has a promotion helping him get more, Polynesian is stronger and more unique while also being much easier to get on an average map (UA can easily equal more ruins). Granary would be less annoying if the resource removal didn't limit where I can place it. I don't even benefit from the resource being planted beyond the first one.
The OP is not correct about the CS values for Barbican and Mughal Fort.
pineappledan
Deity
The zoo already boosts forests. it's only the pasture boost
qullqa fixed in upcoming version.
Bruhmoment
Prince
how do you download this
i never downloaded a mod manually before
i never downloaded a mod manually before
Download it from the first post or whatever version was posted last by the mod owner. https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/more-unique-components-for-vox-populi.26966/
and press the download now button in upper right corner.
Extract it in the MODS folder using a tool like winrar or 7-zip. For me that's in C:\Users\[REDACTED_NAME]\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS, but that varies based on your setup.
After you have the map there, so I have a folder there called C:\Users\[REDACTED_NAME]\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\More Unique Components for Vox Populi 60, it will automatically show up when you press the mods submenu from the main menu screen and you just have to activate it.
Bruhmoment
Prince
When playing as the maya, when a b'aktun ends, it says B extquotesingle aktun has ended? Is it supposed to be like this or did I extract the mod the incorrect way?
That just sounds like a minor bug. I actually just finished up a maya game that included this mod and I didn't have any problems with their unique abilities. I vaguely remember that b'aktun, apparently that's how you spell it was a very long word.
pineappledan
Deity
apostraphes mark the beginning and end of a text string for the notification, so this is an error created by us trying to spell "B'aktun" without killing the text string prematurely.
Thanks for catching that, I'll see if I can find a workaround
Bruhmoment
Prince
Thing is I just tried out random civ with this mod and found this bug.
Shouldn't be too hard to fix
I noticed one thing that may be a compatibility problem. In lua codes names were used in some cases like here:
Unfortunately, those names can be changed by my ACN mod with endonyms and xenonyms. It would be more appropriate to use for example CIVILIZATION_XXX and UNIT_BABYLON_XXX like here:
and here:
More clean and safe. These new values are steady and do not change at all. I remember I was changing those in files, but some more could be missed.
Code:
if pPlayer:GetName() == 'Nebuchadnezzar II' then
local pNewUnit = pPlayer:GetUnitByID(iNewUnit)
if pNewUnit:GetName() == 'Kibitum' then
local sLegacyPromotion = {}
Code:
for pUnit in pPlayer:Units() do
if pUnit:GetUnitType() == GameInfoTypes.UNIT_ASSYRIA_IRON_CHARIOT then
table.insert(tIronChariots, pUnit)
end
end
Code:
if not (pPlayer and (pPlayer:GetCivilizationType() == eCivilizationChina or pPlayer:GetCivilizationType() == eCivilizationRome))Use ' two times. For example 'B''aktun'.
The endonym/xenonym mod doesn't seem to affect 3 and 4th UCs at the moment. At one point it worked well, but not anymore. It is linked to mod order (I tried using both orders, and it made no difference, but I still ask) or something else ?
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pineappledan
Deity
v61 coming soon. Still testing etc.
Code:
- Reworked:
- Added the Bullring as a unique replacement for Spain
- Hacienda is moving to base VP mod
- tweaked/modified:
- Impi no longer have ranged strike carry forward. Gunpowder combat bonus has been split into a separate promotion that carries forward
- Armada no longer have Boarding Party II for free
- University of Coimbra icon modified. Credit to EmeraldRange
- Hippodrome era riot downgraded from 1 turn of anarchy per city to 1 turn of -100% needs modifier in all cities
- Chasquiwasi promotion healing reduced from +10 in all territory to +5 in friendly only. Chasqui start with Medic I
Bug Fixes
- Text fixes
- InDuna, Shophet, and Suffet now get bonuses from Imperialism policies
- Qullqa Coca no longer replaces existing resources. If settling on an existing resource, no Coca is placed
- Qullqa and Buffalo Pound now place resources if the building was given for free with a Pioneer or ColonistSpoiler spanish bullring :
Production Cost (-300 from Industrial, equivalent buildings at same tech)
, 4
, 4
(up from 2
Gold when a 'WLTKD' starts, scaling with Era.
Unhappiness from Boredom
International Trade Route is completed, Receive a
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