3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.4

[pineappledan]

I replicated the error. For now I will just can that bonus. Maybe we can think of something else at another time, but the early unlock, move after attack and free blockade promotion stand on their own for now.

 

[pineappledan]

v73 posted:

- Tweaked/modified:
    - new art & unit model for Assyrian Iron Chariot
    - Siamese Seir Morb: 
        - Now gives a flat 20 damage if the unit has not moved at all before attacking, rather than damage based on moves left (only relevant if on roads, with partial moves.)
        - Bonus damage hits every unit/city on a tile, including embarked units stacked under boats and garrisons inside cities. 
    - Roman Latifundium improvement time reduced from 1200 to 950
    - Ethiopian Monolithic Church improvement time reduced from 1000 to 900
    - Danish Longship no longer has Viking Exploration promotion

 

[4CV]

First of all: Thank you, Pineappledan and all others who worked on this mod. I used it first time, and it was really smooth to play.
VP 7-1-3, Warlord level. Rome on a small map with Greece, Siam and The Netherlands as opponents. Roman legions at work... The additional speed at building roads with GG nearby was a great advantage. Same with +1 move for siege units.
It was easy to vassalize Alexander first, just before Athens fell. He then happily helped doing the same to Siam. I didn't notice much of Greek or Siamese special units.
With The Netherlands this was different. They had the smallest army, but soon their 'goedendags' swarmed everywhere. Terrain was on their side, with many mountains and hills. In the end, I lost patience and upgraded my units. The new guns and frigates solved the problem quickly, but it felt wrong, somehow...
On the civil side I was surprised by latifundiums abilities. In the end I had built quite a lot and worked most of them. Building time seemed to be a little too long, but on that level it didn't matter. Which does not mean, the AI was slow at buildings and development. I could annex most of their cities fairly well developed.
All in all, the game with this mod was really nice entertainment.
Btw, I didn't see the victory screen. Because Greece had kept their capital, I suppose. I thought, that had been changed for vassall capitals...

 

[4CV]

v73 posted:

- Tweaked/modified:
 ...
    - Siamese Seir Morb:
        - Now gives a flat 20 damage if the unit has not moved at all before attacking, rather than damage based on moves left (only relevant if on roads, with partial moves.)
        - Bonus damage hits every unit/city on a tile, including embarked units stacked under boats and garrisons inside cities.
    - Roman Latifundium improvement time reduced from 1200 to 950
...

So I can replay the game with Siam

 

[Bruhmoment]

v73 posted:

- Tweaked/modified:
    - new art & unit model for Assyrian Iron Chariot
    - Siamese Seir Morb:
        - Now gives a flat 20 damage if the unit has not moved at all before attacking, rather than damage based on moves left (only relevant if on roads, with partial moves.)
        - Bonus damage hits every unit/city on a tile, including embarked units stacked under boats and garrisons inside cities.
    - Roman Latifundium improvement time reduced from 1200 to 950
    - Ethiopian Monolithic Church improvement time reduced from 1000 to 900
    - Danish Longship no longer has Viking Exploration promotion

What
You just
You just removed the entire goddamn promotion (I didn't mean fix it like that) (((((((((((
Nice changes for latifundium though. Are the promotions seperate now or did they just dissapear

 

[Hinin]

I replicated the error. For now I will just can that bonus. Maybe we can think of something else at another time, but the early unlock, move after attack and free blockade promotion stand on their own for now.

So, what to do now with the Longboat ?

Here is what it currently does.

UM - Longship (Langskib) (replaces Caravel):
available at Physics (instead of Compass)
150 Production Cost (instead of 160)
22 CS (instead of 25)
4 Movement

Blockade
Can move after attacking

The main problem with the Longboat is that it replaces a unit that is basically a buff ship without any malus, or bonus. The Longship is much more interesting in that sense, but the reduced base combat strength limits its utility in the long run (even though the Danish Longboat promotion already gives some additionnal combat bonus on Coast).

Ideas :

• Double movement on Coast tiles (so the opposite of the Korean Turtle Ship) : goes well with the UA unique promotion
  
• Gain +1 MP & the ability to attack again whenever it kills (so that it can go on a rampage when there is a lot of weak targets) : synergy with the 'can move after attacking' bonus (the Matagi already does that)
  
• XP from exploration (since it is an early Caravel, that can be nice) : Carthage has it for the early coastal exploration, Denmark would have it for the "exploration age" (plus, it would a nice nod to some non-warmongering elements of Scandinavian history)
  
• "Thrall-seeking" promotion (gain production and/or food in your capital when killing enemy units)
• Ignores ZOC

Any other idea ?

 

[Bruhmoment]

So, what to do now with the Longboat ?

Here is what it currently does.

UM - Longship (Langskib) (replaces Caravel):
available at Physics (instead of Compass)
150 Production Cost (instead of 160)
22 CS (instead of 25)
4 Movement

Blockade
Can move after attacking

The main problem with the Longboat is that it replaces a unit that is basically a buff ship without any malus, or bonus. The Longship is much more interesting in that sense, but the reduced base combat strength limits its utility in the long run (even though the Danish Longboat promotion already gives some additionnal combat bonus on Coast).

Ideas :

• Double movement on Coast tiles (so the opposite of the Korean Turtle Ship) : goes well with the UA unique promotion
  
• Gain +1 MP & the ability to attack again whenever it kills (so that it can go on a rampage when there is a lot of weak targets) : synergy with the 'can move after attacking' bonus (the Matagi already does that)
  
• XP from exploration (since it is an early Caravel, that can be nice) : Carthage has it for the early coastal exploration, Denmark would have it for the "exploration age" (plus, it would a nice nod to some non-warmongering elements of Scandinavian history)
  
• "Thrall-seeking" promotion (gain production and/or food in your capital when killing enemy units)
• Ignores ZOC

Any other idea ?

The first promotion for viking exploration was supposed to stand for them exploring and establishing the Vinland colony, but that's been killed off. I can't really figure out a promotion for it now, but maybe a coastal raiding promotion? The longship comes at the time when the vikings historically started raiding and pillaging stuff, so maybe something like stacking land units together with the longship, and the land unit gets more strength?
Coastal Raiding
Land units stacked with the Longship get a 15% combat bonus when disembarking.

 

[Hinin]

The first promotion for viking exploration was supposed to stand for them exploring and establishing the Vinland colony, but that's been killed off. I can't really figure out a promotion for it now, but maybe a coastal raiding promotion? The longship comes at the time when the vikings historically started raiding and pillaging stuff, so maybe something like stacking land units together with the longship, and the land unit gets more strength?
Coastal Raiding
Land units stacked with the Longship get a 15% combat bonus when disembarking.

I personally dislike stacking promotions very much nowadays (contrary to aura promotions), simply because they are inherently unusable by the AI and are a chore to manage for players.

 

[Bruhmoment]

I personally dislike stacking promotions very much nowadays (contrary to aura promotions), simply because they are inherently unusable by the AI and are a chore to manage for players.

I mean it was an idea I thought of in like 30 seconds, but you gotta have SOME micromanaging with mods

 

[KlHannibal2]

v73 posted:

- Tweaked/modified:
    - new art & unit model for Assyrian Iron Chariot
    - Siamese Seir Morb:
        - Now gives a flat 20 damage if the unit has not moved at all before attacking, rather than damage based on moves left (only relevant if on roads, with partial moves.)
        - Bonus damage hits every unit/city on a tile, including embarked units stacked under boats and garrisons inside cities.
    - Roman Latifundium improvement time reduced from 1200 to 950
    - Ethiopian Monolithic Church improvement time reduced from 1000 to 900
    - Danish Longship no longer has Viking Exploration promotion

Thank you for reducing the latifundium build time. I will try it and see how it works now.

 

[pineappledan]

The first promotion for viking exploration was supposed to stand for them exploring and establishing the Vinland colony, but that's been killed off. I can't really figure out a promotion for it now, but maybe a coastal raiding promotion? The longship comes at the time when the vikings historically started raiding and pillaging stuff, so maybe something like stacking land units together with the longship, and the land unit gets more strength?
Coastal Raiding
Land units stacked with the Longship get a 15% combat bonus when disembarking.

Blockade promotion already gives gold for attacking cities, so there is your coastal raiding promotion.
The UA's free embarkation movement and the viking promotion for land units has the raiding part pretty well covered. I don't think there's much use in trying to dip into that well again.

The viking exploration ability was nice, if people had the discipline to make it work, and not get their units stuck. The only thing I can think of is we could implement a cargo ability, where Longships can load land units onto them like aircraft carriers, thus totally denying users the ability to move the cargo'd unit off of the longship. That would require a lot of coding and complexity, however.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Blockade promotion already gives gold for attacking cities, so there is your coastal raiding promotion.
The UA's free embarkation movement and the viking promotion for land units has the raiding part pretty well covered. I don't think there's much use in trying to dip into that well again.

The viking exploration ability was nice, if people had the discipline to make it work, and not get their units stuck. The only thing I can think of is we could implement a cargo ability, where Longships can load land units onto them like aircraft carriers, thus totally denying users the ability to move the cargo'd unit off of the longship. That would require a lot of coding and complexity, however.

That sounds really complicated, but it's your choice whether you want a simple modification or a complex one
I don't really have any ideas to suggest, Hinin suggested most of what I wanted to, so maybe something with entering deep ocean or disembarking

 

[Rosete]

The Longship already seems to be doing a lot. An early unlock naval unit is very powerful by allowing you to completely smash the enemy's navy and subsequently their cities. Move after attacking allows you to cycle mele units to utterly destroy cities. Futhermore, Danish is quite a strong warring civ and is in a good spot balance-wise imo.

The Longship's ability to ferry units was very niche anyway, losing it doesn't really hurt the civ at all or make the Longship any weaker.

Does the Longship really need to do more? I don't like the idea of adding things for the sake of adding things.

 

[Bruhmoment]

The Longship already seems to be doing a lot. An early unlock naval unit is very powerful by allowing you to completely smash the enemy's navy and subsequently their cities. Move after attacking allows you to cycle mele units to utterly destroy cities. Futhermore, Danish is quite a strong warring civ and is in a good spot balance-wise imo.

The Longship's ability to ferry units was very niche anyway, losing it doesn't really hurt the civ at all or make the Longship any weaker.

Does the Longship really need to do more? I don't like the idea of adding things for the sake of adding things.

Well, it doesn't really have anything that special, sure, it can move after attacking and has blockade, but that's not very unique then, is it?
Harder to attack if it's 1 tile coast aswell

 

[ridjack]

Okay, someone please help me understand this.

So after updating to the most recent hotfix and v73 of 4UC, almost all of my extra civs were missing their extra components. I had seen previous advice to add a blank line to the end of the modinfo, so I went to do that... only to realize one of the broken ones was one I had already done that with. So I removed the line, and that fixed it. But some of the other ones didn't have the line and were still broken... so I added the line, and that fixed it. In one case, there was an extra space that I removed, and that fixed it.

What gives? Is the space actually doing anything, or is this just forcing the game to reload the mod or something?

 

[pineappledan]

You aren’t doing anything by adding/removing the line except changing the file properties to a different date.
The mod load order is based on which mods are newest. So changing the the modinfo file and re-saving makes it a newer mod

 

[ridjack]

You aren’t doing anything by adding/removing the line except changing the file properties to a different date.
The mod load order is based on which mods are newest. So changing the the modinfo file and re-saving makes it a newer mod

Essentially along the lines of what I was suspecting. Thanks.

 

[gwennog]

@pineappledan , @Asterix Rage pointed out to me a problem with the promotions coming from autocracy and exploration for the great Nispa of Mod Ainu.
When I looked in the UnitPromotions_CivilianUnitType table, I saw that it was also missing for Indaba and Shophet, the PROMOTION_FAST_GENERAL coming from
POLICY_LIGHTNING_WARFARE.

I will use this code for the Great Nispa, it will allow, a priori, to be up to date if the promotions of the Great General change.

INSERT INTO UnitPromotions_CivilianUnitType
        (PromotionType,     UnitType)
SELECT    PromotionType,        'UNIT_AINU_GREAT_NISPA'
FROM UnitPromotions_CivilianUnitType WHERE UnitType = 'UNIT_GREAT_GENERAL';

 

[pineappledan]

The bonus is given to all unique GGenerals in the Zulu file.

 

[gwennog]

The bonus is given to all unique GGenerals in the Zulu file.

Yes, I saw that but I thought it was missing PROMOTION_FAST_GENERAL from POLICY_LIGHTNING_WARFARE.

Spoiler Policy_FreePromotions :

Spoiler UnitPromotions_CivilianUnitType :

Spoiler (over) More Unique Components for VP (v 73)/Induna.sql :

But I might be on the wrong track, sorry .