3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

[adan_eslavo]

So we dropped totally intihuatana idea?

 

[pineappledan]

I wanted your opinion on revisiting the tambo/coca resource idea. See this post for my proposal

The Intihuatana doubles down on mountains, same as the UI and the UA. It's too repetitive, especially if the map doesn't plop the Inca onto a mountain range. It's too focused. Also, Tambos are more well-known than intihuatana.

I'm having difficulty getting the Coca monopoly to work as I hoped, but everything else is now working fine.

The Coca monopoly is supposed to add/remove a unique promotion on all land units, including civilian units, if the civ controls the Coca monopoly. No notification is made when inca gets 2+ sources of Coca. This might be because the monopoly notification isn't triggered by resources added via free buildings. The free promotion also does not appear on units yet:

function CocaMonopoly(iPlayer)
    local pPlayer = Players[iPlayer]
  
    for unit in pPlayer:Units() do
        if unit:GetDomainType() = GameInfoTypes.DOMAIN_LAND then unit:SetHasPromotion(GameInfoTypes.PROMOTION_COCA, pPlayer:HasGlobalMonopoly(GameInfoTypes.RESOURCE_COCA)) end
    end
end

if Game.IsCivEverActive(GameInfoTypes.CIVILIZATION_INCA) then
    GameEvents.PlayerDoTurn.Add(CocaMonopoly)
end

I tried it with pPlayer.HasGlobalMonopoly(GameInfoTypes.RESOURCE_COCA), but haven't tested with pPlayer.HasGlobalMonopoly(GameInfoTypes.RESOURCE_COCA) yet... The colon looks right to me, but G's code which uses HasGlobalMonopoly() uses a full stop.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Additional luxury makes my TO modmod incompatible. The worse thing is I have no place to fit any addtional resorce. That is from my perspective.

Coca monopoly will be like Brazilian or indonesian one - easily obtainable. Cannot we add just another bonus resource (now we have 2) and move the promotion to building itself? It solves lots if problems and does not need lua.

As of that code: after pPlayer you use colon instead of dot, so: pPlayer:Has...

 

[pineappledan]

Additional luxury makes my TO modmod incompatible. The worse thing is I have no place to fit any addtional resorce. That is from my perspective.

hmm... I haven't used the TO mod yet, but it looks gorgeous, and it's obvious you've put a lot of care into it. I'd hate to step on your toes there.

On the other hand, it's the only luxury resource this mod adds. Our restraint has been rather incredible, considering how often unique resources come up in custom mods. If this is a problem for TO, then that also means any custom civ that adds a unique resource will break TO as well. The Chinook civ, therefore, is already the first casualty. If a single added luxury breaks the format for TO then it sounds like TO has a serious future-proofing problem that isn't limited to only this mod.

Right now the list is populated with every single possible resource that could be in a game. I know you did this so that people couldn't use the resource list to cheat, and see if Brazil/Indonesia were in the game. That might not be avoidable, however, if you want to ensure the mod can be played with custom civs going forward.

I know this will take a lot of effort on your part, but is it possible to have the list populate based only on what resources have been discovered/connected? In other words, TO only adds a resource to the list if either a) you connected a resource or b) a civilization you have met connected a resource?

Coca monopoly will be like Brazilian or indonesian one - easily obtainable.

That is correct. However, the plan is for Coca monopoly to only give +15% worker speed and mountain movement. Since Inca already have mountain movement, that means that Coca gives minimal benefit to Inca players, but a major boost to conquerors.

The idea was that the Tambo would make is slightly harder to take Incan cities, but far more rewarding. If you can conquer Inca, you have an additional tool in your kit to do more conquering: mountain movement.

Cannot we add just another bonus resource (now we have 2) and move the promotion to building itself? It solves lots if problems and does not need lua.

We don't want to put any resource out "on the field" for Inca, because mountains and hills are competing for space already. That's why we wanted it to be given by a city. The only civ which gives unique resources via building is Poland, so we felt it was more unique, and didn't step on Indonesia or Brazil's toes. There also aren't any unique graphics for the Coca plant (the original mod it comes from uses cocoa as the base model), but the icon Leugi made for Coca is beautiful:

The monopoly bonus is very specific to Coca's properties. Coca deadens hunger, thirst, exhaustion, and pain. The leaves were tightly controlled for religious rituals and sparingly given to the wider populace when the Inca were in power. When the Spanish took over, they distributed Coca as part of a ration in labor camps; it made working people to death far easier and more profitable.

As of that code: after pPlayer you use colon instead of dot, so: pPlayer:Has...

The alternative I was thinking of was a global +10% production global monopoly, same as coffee and copper. That maintains the flavor of Coca, It could be done in SQL, and this whole business with adding/removing promotions is a lot of calculations every turn.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@pineappledan Original TO mod "gathered" such resources out of pool to the one group. I think of reviving that, but not now. I must finish what I started.

TO checks also "posible" resources in the area. It will be difficult to increase/decrease column number because of how the xml ui table works. For now each column has its own name referring to one luxury or strategic. Moreover, they have specified place (coordinates) where column appears. It is very complicated system.

So adding modified old code, with additional one column which I can barely fit there which would "gather" all other luxuries than base ones. So Salmon, Coca and whatever it would be, would be placed in column named "?" with tooltip: f.e. "[ICON_COCA] Coca or [ICON_SALMON] Salmon".

 

[Galbias]

Byzantium’s entire jam is religion, and religion touches every single game mechanic somewhere. We didn’t want to double down on faith generation or spread because it would be just more of the same. We also had the task of adding something historically relevant to the real Byzantium. WLTKD was hopefully a way to get away from religious boosts, and to have only marginal direct interactions with a couple tenets at most.

There’s no right answer. At least WLTKDs as a core strategy don’t compound any of the pre-existing Byzantium strategies. At the very least, we added a new play style dimension.

Even your idea of flat yields interacts with way of transcendence

It's basically the same thing as Way of Transcendence but it doesn't push you to or away from Way of Transcendence as a belief, admittedly not the most creative suggestion.

The WLTKD thing is secondary though, the Anarchy is the main thing I wanted to point out. Anarchy is just a huge huge negative in general, 6 turns spread out over the course of the game is the sort of thing that would be very hard to gauge, but to put it another way, without taking Theocratic Rule I don't think I would even build Hippodrome just because the Anarchy is so bad.

I do like the new Incan idea, it's probably better that they not have as much of a mountain focus. The new benefits are enough to make it worth building for sure. The ability to copy the mountain movement by stealing the luxury is interesting, it doesn't seem like it would happen much in practice given that you'd have to conquer over 50% of their empire but it would also be nice to have if you're willing to go that far.

 

[pineappledan]

Anarchy is the main thing I wanted to point out. Anarchy is just a huge huge negative in general, 6 turns spread out over the course of the game is the sort of thing that would be very hard to gauge, but to put it another way, without taking Theocratic Rule I don't think I would even build Hippodrome just because the Anarchy is so bad.

WLTKD does the following:
resets luxury needs in city
+25% growth,
+20%/ in capital with Hippodrome
+10% // on with Mausoleum of Halicarnassus
+15%// with Theocratic Rule
+15% with Synagogues
+15% and double border growth with Burghers
+15%/ with Humanism policy

Would it be acceptable if, instead of giving +20%/ in the capital, the Hippodrome gavce +15%/ on Empire?

10 turns of WLTKD means that the empire would recoup 1 turn's worth of / in <7 turns, and come out a little ahead on food. You then rely on other buildings/policies/wonders would further capitalize on the bonus, or not, but then you are more than breaking even on // at a minimum

The newest version of VP is pushed. We need to get this lua hook for Rome implemented, then we need to debug Inca, and we are ready to ship v38

 

[pineappledan]

update: I forgot about this issue.

Coca won't appear as a monopoly resource unless it is actually placed on a tile. The monopoly resources only are calculated for map resources, not for building resources. We abandoned this Coca idea the first time because Coca needed to be placed under the city, but resources are only counted as connected for the monopoly calculation when they are improved. ie. the city has to be plopped down AFTER the resource is.

One thing we didn't try is plopping the resource under the city, THEN plopping a plantation under the city with it. So it would register the improvement via this plantation. I'm running some errands, and then I'm going to come back to this and see if I can get it to work.

Update: Adding the plantation works! Coca is connected and shows up in the trade window if you add coca below the city, then add and delete a plantation on top of it.

Unfortunately, it also removes the machu picchu graphics, so cities on top of mountains disappear; structures are added normally, so you don't have the flattened mountain, but you still get walls, temples, monuments, etc. appearing on the mountain normally.

Cities on normal tiles are unaffected.

My testing has also led me to another conclusion: The Chasqui is too weird. If you get a pathfinder upgrade, the Chasqui's exploration can mean hundreds of gold, and swamp you with early money rolling in. It's completely OP. On the other hand, if you don't get a chasqui in a ruin then you might feel pressured to only explore as far as you need to until you unlock them. They are on a very out-of-the way tech since you will want your terrace farms up first, so they can hold up your exploration for a long time.

What if we removed the gold on exploration, and changed Chasquiwasi?
Chasquiwasi: +10 HP on heal. +1 Movement in friendly territory.

So base 3 move if it starts turn in your own land, and heals faster. if you can get them promoted up to survivalism III, they will heal 40HP every turn outside friendly territory. They wouln't be as strong as Koa, but they could be used as frontline units as long as they don't take lethal damage, because they heal so fast

 

[climat]

Incan UA change needs to be removed. It was introduced because of Intihuatana, right? In case you forgot.

 

[pineappledan]

Thanks for reminding me, @climat. I will make that change

The new Rome capture filter is implemented via lua. I can’t find it at all inside the actual mod, but I have been promised it is there. It must be buried in the DLL without documentation... at any rate, here is my attempt at a mock-up of the code:

function NoUniqueWonders(iOwner, iCity, iConqueror, iBuilding)
    for iBuilding in GameInfo.Buildings() do
        if iBuilding.NumCityCostMod >= 1 then
            return false
        end
    end
        return true
end

GameEvents.ConquerorValidBuilding.Add(NoUniqueWonders)

That's more future-proof than specifically listing every possible building.

Update: I ran a test with this code, enabled and disabled. When I disabled it, Rome could capture everything normally. When I enabled it, Rome could not capture anything. Not sure where to begin fixing this, since it doesn't throw up any errors.

Once we get this implemented I think we are ready to ship the new version.

 

[pineappledan]

changelog for upcoming v 38

v38:

- reworked:
    - Inca Intihuatana reverted to Tambo (caravansary replacement)
       - Inca UA reverted to Science/Food, since it was changed to accomodate Intihuatana 
    - Inca Chasqui: Gold on exploration removed. Chasquiwasi unique promotion now +1 move in friendly land and +10 healing

- tweaked:
    - Move Ater Attacking promotion ==> now lost on upgrade (affects Langskib),
    - Fale Tele ==> removed faith on building completion (too strong, Polynesia is early runaway),
    - Prau ==> removed Sentry promotion (too much synergy with new naval promotion line),
    - Langskib ==> increased build cost to 150 (very cheap, new naval promotions makes them even scarier),
    - Carolean ==> increased CS to 39 (up from 38),
    - Ballista ==> reduces CS/RCS to 7/13 (down from 8/14, Rome doesn't need any more help).
    - Hippodrome ==> +20% Gold/Culture in CITY on WLTKD changed to +15% Gold/Culture on EMPIRE on WLTKD.

- simplified:
    - all building/improvement lua: added filter on game start to shut down lua hooks for civs that are not in the game.
    - Monolithic Church ==> added bonus yields from policies/beliefs directly onto policies/beliefs, instead of using lua; yields from ideology still require lua,
    - Shotelai ==> used sql instead of lua,
    - Koa ==> used sql instead of lua; changed effect of debuff placer: "Reduces max HP by 20HP and healing by -10 for 2 turns",
    - Pogost ==> stages 2 and 3 fully replace the previous stage now; all bonuses are cumulative on the buildings, and the old stage is removed; no balance changes.

- fixes
    - Added new Rome compatibility to: Maya, Poland, India, & Mongolia
    - Hippodrome, Etemenenanki ==> removed CapitalOnly; now Palace as a building requirement (CapitalOnly interacts with policies in a weird way),
    - all Dummies except Barbican ==> added IsDummy=true (needs to be recognized as a non-dummy building in case Rome captures it),
    - Suffet ==> embarking and disembarking removes all movement; (prevents bug with multi-tile canals),
    - Gumey ==> now correct calculation method for monopolies.
    - Rome ==> Can no longer capture unique national wonders.

 

[Galbias]

WLTKD does the following:
resets luxury needs in city
+25% growth,
+20%/ in capital with Hippodrome
+10% // on with Mausoleum of Halicarnassus
+15%// with Theocratic Rule
+15% with Synagogues
+15% and double border growth with Burghers
+15%/ with Humanism policy

Would it be acceptable if, instead of giving +20%/ in the capital, the Hippodrome gavce +15%/ on Empire?

10 turns of WLTKD means that the empire would recoup 1 turn's worth of / in <7 turns, and come out a little ahead on food. You then rely on other buildings/policies/wonders would further capitalize on the bonus, or not, but then you are more than breaking even on // at a minimum

The newest version of VP is pushed. We need to get this lua hook for Rome implemented, then we need to debug Inca, and we are ready to ship v38

That would help a lot for sure. It does still push them towards WLTKD stacking strategies but I can't come up with much else that would be equally useful and balanced, other ideas I was throwing around in my head were a couple free Horses, bonus to mounted unit construction, Gold on unit construction, or a "cities get +15% of all yields for 10 turns after the one turn of Anarchy" effect that's not tied to WLTKD if that's possible.

 

[adan_eslavo]

So @pineappledan do you plan any other tweaks? Is this version ready to release?

 

[pineappledan]

The Rome code doesn’t work, but once it does it’s ready for release. I’ve tested coca and the new Chasqui promotion and they both work

 

[FoxOfWar]

Looking forward to this, if mostly from stability standpoint. Haven't had really any particular observations regarding this mod lately, but will post once I have any.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm taking the day off modding (Diwali and Armistice Day).

Things to do:

• Either get the Rome capture code working, or replace with a custom OnCityCapture lua which removes national wonders. If we can get the Rome code going that would be nice, because it only fires once at game setup, rather than every city conquest, but right now it seems to be a nuclear option, making nothing capturable instead of working as intended.
• Alter the civ5proj file with new files:
  • Coca art files and new Inca SQL. changed folder name
  • Removed Inca UA sql file and folder
• publish new version.

EDIT: updated OP

 

[Bhawb]

Huey Teocalli isn't properly stacking the food, faith, and XP gains. It still gave the GA on completion, gives +6 faith, boosts Temples and Barracks an appropriate amount. I had noticed it after a while of feeling like my faith/XP wasn't increasing despite having gone through probably close to the max number of GAs. I just popped a Great Artist for a GA and it very obviously didn't change anything, and the Huey itself only lists +6 faith.

The only mods I'm running are the VP mods, this one, Enlightenment Era, and Enhanced Naval Warfare. I'm not sure if any of those have created bugs or if maybe all this stuff with Rome's capture nonsense has done something.

Edit: I am running version 37.4 and the 10/10/18 VP patch.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@pineappledan I'm adding Coca and Tambo resource to the mod. Some dds files were broken and I needed to fix that. Do not touch those files until I upload my changes please.

EDIT: Successfully added Coca and Tambo to the mod. I split art for them because buildings do not need 32 and 80 px images. Fixed some not working art (dds crashes). There were some small errors in sql files, but I revised them and lua too, so no errors are visible for now.

Moreover I checked if Coca shows in Trade Opportunities table and it works!

 

[pineappledan]

@adan_eslavo, thank you for cleaning up my work and looking through it.

The Tambo icon is part of the shared icons file, along with the schutzenstand, order and university of coimbra. That icon you separated off is a unique building from the Aymara mod which we didn't use in our mod. I'm going to revert the art assets.

Though I have to admit, the Qullqa icon turned out so much better I'm almost tempted to make the Qullqa a unique granary replacement instead, lol

Tambo Icon:

Qullqa icon:

Here is my attempt at a Rome lua code that doesn't use the poorly documented new lua hook which I can't get to work:

function OnCaptureRemoveNationalWonders(iOldOwner, bIsCapital, iX, iY, iNewOwner, iPop, bConquest)
    local pNewPlayer = Players[iNewOwner]

    if pNewPlayer:GetCivilizationType() ~= eCivilizationRome then return end

    local pCity = Map.GetPlot(iX, iY):GetPlotCity()

    for building in GameInfo.Buildings() do
        if pCity:IsHasBuilding(building.ID) and building.NumCityCostMod >= 1 then
            pCity:SetNumRealBuilding(building.ID, 0)
        end
    end
end

if Game.IsCivEverActive(eCivilizationRome) then
    GameEvents.CityCaptureComplete.Add(OnCaptureRemoveNationalWonders)

Gonna load this into a game with the aztecs and see if I can replicate that bug @Bhawb is getting, then conquer it with Rome.

UPDATE: Rome Unique national wonder capture lua is implemented and tested. The Aztec bug has been resolved. We are ready to push v38, unless I hear overwhelmoing support for changing Tambo to Qullqa

 

[adan_eslavo]

So why not use qulqa picture in tambo?

I have no more time today because I'm going on a night shift, but tomorrow I will try to look at it.