3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 87

[pineappledan]

Glad you're enjoying the mod!

I think the recent Rome change was unwarranted, but that's neither here nor there. I wanted to make the team aware of a bug that I've posted previously on Github making a return: Egypt's AI doesn't appear to recognize Flax resources that spawn on tiles they have already improved. Just finishing up my 3rd game with Egypt as an opponent AI and they never go back and replace Farms that have Flax spawn under them once the Nilometer is built into Plantations. Strangely, if another AI conquers an Egyptian city they will usually go an replace the farms on Flax with plantations, but Egypt just leaves their initial farms in place. Is this just a quirk of the AI in general, or is there something different about Egypt's "encouragement" to improve tiles?

That's a general quirk of the AI. The AI doesn't normally have to deal with new resources getting plopped on the map; if there's an existing improvement already on top of it, it either doesn't notice, or doesn't care.

I can't say I'm very knowledgeable of how the AI assesses the tiles, but if the AI stored knowledge of local terrain for a city, and only refreshed it on city capture, that would seem sensible. Just spitballing though.

Also, Flax isn't showing up on the list of Monopolies when I view the Monopoly/Corporation UI (when using the EUI version of VP), so I can never see how many copies of Flax there are or what percentage Egypt still has (assuming they have lost cities) without manually counting.

Flax is a bonus resource, like banana, so it isn't tracked. There is no monopoly bonus for flax, and you can't trade it or anything either.

EDIT: I now realize this last point may have been a source of anxiety for you, because you may have thought that Egypt was not improving a luxury, and therefore, was making a far more grievous error than they actually were. If the flax is underneath a farm, Egypt might actually be getting more from the tile than if it converted to a plantation (adjacencies, agribusiness, etc.). A human might make the same choice, if he felt worker turns were better spent elsewhere.

 

[Galbias]

I voted for the first option for Rome but honestly I could go either way, their UA is definitely going to be stronger with this mod than without so I can see the concern. If you do go with Option 2, maybe something like reduced resistance and/or a production bonus after a city is conquered to make rebuilding faster? Something like 40 production, or an extra +3 production for 20 turns (both scaling with era) or such. Basically a boost towards rebuilding, since I think part of the original flavor is that Rome brought civilization to the places they conquered instead of just trampling over them. Of course, boosting the original production percentage would probably be fine too.

For what it's worth, I like Rome's new UU and Legion changes. I've always thought Rome's ability was interesting but didn't want to play them because I don't like warfare-oriented civs without some sort of advantage in warfare, whereas Rome's abilities reward you for succeeding in warfare and their UU didn't really pass on anything interesting after being upgraded, but Legions keeping Pilum and the movement bonus for Ballista being passed on (I'm assuming), that's not the case any more, I'm considering playing them next.

I really appreciate the modmod as a whole, the vanilla version was one of my favorite mods so it's great to see something similar in VP. Might be worth adding installation instructions to the OP just for clarity.

 

[Mad Madigan]

EDIT: I now realize this last point may have been a source of anxiety for you, because you may have thought that Egypt was not improving a luxury, and therefore, was making a far more grievous error than they actually were. If the flax is underneath a farm, Egypt might actually be getting more from the tile than if it converted to a plantation (adjacencies, agribusiness, etc.). A human might make the same choice, if he felt worker turns were better spent elsewhere.

This is exactly the case: I didn't realize Flax was considered a bonus resource since I've never actually played AS Egypt in 3/4UC, only against them. That would also explain why the AI doesn't bother to "fix" Flax that spawns on a tile that already has a farm. Without adding some code to force the AI to reevaluate city tiles once a Nilometer is constructed I can't see an easy way to fix this. Oh well!

 

[mamadhdk]

hello

seems my MUCfVP is not working (no 3rd and 4th show up)
any solution for this?

mod used: vp 5-20-3, ee, enw, muc
thank you.

 

[pineappledan]

Where do all you guys come from, and why are all of you using 5 month old versions of VP?

You are using a very old build of VP. You should update to 9-25 or later. If you want to stay with your current version of VP, download version 32.2 from the version history page

 

[adan_eslavo]

They do not read first page of the thread. Real men do not read instructions.

 

[mamadhdk]

ups my bad lol
long time not playing this game

thank you for reminding sir
have a nice day.

 

[CppMaster]

Carthage Sufet has a bug. When is in form of Great Admiral and is going to a city through a citadel and a fort, it duplicates itself in these tiles. It can create 2 Sufets every turn.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Sweden needs tundra bias, preferably fresh water tundra, or the UB needs to be changed. Every other civ that depends on X existing gets more chances of starting near the X, but this one doesn't. Fresh water bias doesn't guarantee lakes will be near, tundra bias will on most maps guarantee tundras.

 

[Mad Madigan]

Sweden used to have a tundra bias (as did Russia) but it was removed in VP a long while back. It would make sense to undo that change for 3/4UC due to their UB, but there is no way to add a "freshwater" bias or combine terrain type bias with terrain feature bias. For example, a civ can have a Tundra/Plains/Grassland/Desert bias OR a Forest/Jungle/Hills bias, but not both.

 

[XoTiC]

I am having an issue where some of my production UI and diplomacy UI is missing whilst playing with this mod. These are my Vox populi versions https://imgur.com/a/riZ6Ui7. only other mod enabled is this one. any help would be appreciated thanks

 

[pineappledan]

Literally 6 posts above you, dude.

 

[XoTiC]

Literally 6 posts above you, dude.

Sorry, didnt realise that i was on an old version seen as that is the most current one on https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/community-patch-how-to-install.528034/ that isnt in the BETA folder.

 

[ProCatGamer]

Oh great Dan the pineapple
I was wondering how is the mod doing now with the Rome issue and all as this is one of my favourite mods and I'm sad to see that it's incompatible with the current new beta version of the mod

 

[pineappledan]

Updates for v38 so far:

More Unique Components for Vox Populi changelog:
v38:
tweaked:
- Fale Tele ==> removed faith on building completion (too strong, polynesia is early religion runaway)
- Prau ==> removed Sentry promotion (too much synergy with new naval promotion line)
- Langskib ==> increased build cost to 150 (very cheap, new naval promotions makes them even scarier)
- Carolean ==> increased CS to 39 (up 1 from 38)
- Ballista ==> reduced CS/RCS to 7/13 (down from 8/14)
simplified:
- Monolithic Church: added bonus yields from policies/beliefs directly onto policies/beliefs, instead of lua. Yields from ideology still require lua
- Shotelai ==> removed Lua (can use SQL now)
- Koa ==> removed Lua. Changed effect of debuff placer: Reduces max HP by 20HP and healing by -10 for 2 turns.
- Pogost ==> Stages 2 and 3 fully replace the previous stage now. All bonuses are cumulative on the buildings, and the old stage is removed (1 building in city screen instead of 3, but no balance changes)
Bug Fixes
- removed CapitalOnly from Hippodrome and Etemenanki, replaced with adding palace as a building requirement (CapitalOnly interacts with policies in a weird way)
- added IsDummy=true to all dummy buildings except Barbican Dummy (needs to be recognized as a non-dummy building in case Rome captures it)
- Suffet: Embarking and Disembarking removes all movement. prevents bug with multi-tile canals

We are skipping 10-10 compatibility. No point. You can download the latest build from Github, it has the optimizations and minor balance tweaks as described above.

G has offered to add an option in settings to disable unique national wonders from capture in future versions. If he does that, then we only need to add Rome into the following lua:

• Qila
• Barbican
• Yassa Court
• Pitz Court (maybe.)

 

[pineappledan]

I was thinking more on @Enrico Swagolo's criticism of the Inca UB, and I think he has a point...
the Intihuatana doubles down too much on Inca's reliance on mountains, and it makes both infrastructure bonuses benefit directly from mountains; it's a bit too 1-dimensional. I'm looking back at the Tambo idea, and I think I have an idea for what we can do to solve our issue that we had before:

Spoiler Incan Tambo :

UB - Tambo (Caravansary)
unlocked at Currency
+1
+5 City Strength
When a Land Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your recent Culture output.
Land Trade Routes gain +50% Range and +3 gold
+1 from Merchants.
+1 / for every 3 desert or tundra tiles worked by city.
Truffles +2
Cotton +1/
Furs +1/
+5 HP heal every turn for units stationed in this city, regardless of Action
A free Qullqa is built in this City

Qullqa
Unique Building class - 100% chance to capture
+2 +2
Provides a free Coca resource

Coca
Luxury Resource
Coca Monopoly grants unique promotion to all units on empire: 15% improvement speed and the ability to move on mountains

So the Tambo itself provides minimal bonus, it makes units recover faster and should help in a siege, but it’s mainly there to supply the qullqa, which provides a unique monopoly luxury.

The luxury resource essentially allows inca’s mountain traversal ability to be stolen by another civ. Inca are really hard to conquer, and require so much effort to invade, that they are sometimes not even worth it. This luxury will make it worth it.

Thoughts?

 

[infidel88]

Updates for v38 so far:
- Langskib ==> increased build cost to 150 (very cheap, new naval promotions makes them even scarier)

I still think that hitnrun, which stays upon upgrade is so powerful, it can be only promotion of langskib and stay without anything else, making unit unique and strong.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I was thinking more on @Enrico Swagolo's criticism of the Inca UB, and I think he has a point...
the Intihuatana doubles down too much on Inca's reliance on mountains, and it makes both infrastructure bonuses benefit directly from mountains; it's a bit too 1-dimensional. I'm looking back at the Tambo idea, and I think I have an idea for what we can do to solve our issue that we had before:

Spoiler Incan Tambo :

UB - Tambo (Caravansary)
unlocked at Currency
+1
+5 City Strength
When a Land Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your recent Culture output.
Land Trade Routes gain +50% Range and +3 gold
+1 from Merchants.
+1 / for every 3 desert or tundra tiles worked by city.
Truffles +2
Cotton +1/
Furs +1/
+5 HP heal every turn for units stationed in this city, regardless of Action
A free Qullqa is built in this City

Qullqa
Unique Building class - 100% chance to capture
+2 +2
Provides a free Coca resource

Coca
Luxury Resource
Coca Monopoly grants unique promotion to all units on empire: 15% improvement speed and the ability to move on mountains

So the Tambo itself provides minimal bonus, it makes units recover faster and should help in a siege, but it’s mainly there to supply the qullqa, which provides a unique monopoly luxury.

The luxury resource essentially allows inca’s mountain traversal ability to be stolen by another civ. Inca are really hard to conquer, and require so much effort to invade, that they are sometimes not even worth it. This luxury will make it worth it.

Thoughts?

Iguana > Cola in real life as an unhealthy, fattening drink is less harmful than a lizard, but for Incas it's better not to be more dependent on mountains. I approve, but the UB is a bit underwhelming compared to Gumey. Gumey seems fairly stronger even in it's base, no monopoly form as it just has many more yields, but by itself I don't think Tambo is going to be UP, what with the improvement speed. I'd give it slightly more yields or have it come earlier, sacrificing the CS (unconditional 5 HP heal for garrisons will be enough of a pain to deal with on a civ as annoying as the Inca without even more pain to the would-be-conqueror). I like the idea of stealing their stuff, too. I like it, it could even get in without change.

 

[pineappledan]

Iguana > Cola in real life as an unhealthy, fattening drink is less harmful than a lizard, but for Incas it's better not to be more dependent on mountains. I approve, but the UB is a bit underwhelming compared to Gumey. Gumey seems fairly stronger even in it's base, no monopoly form as it just has many more yields, but by itself I don't think Tambo is going to be UP, what with the improvement speed. I'd give it slightly more yields or have it come earlier, sacrificing the CS (unconditional 5 HP heal for garrisons will be enough of a pain to deal with on a civ as annoying as the Inca without even more pain to the would-be-conqueror). I like the idea of stealing their stuff, too. I like it, it could even get in without change.

I had also considered adding some military supply cap, maybe +10% of population in city? Either replace the CS, or just add it on top

Effectively the Tambo would give:
22
5
5HP healing
+15% worker improvement speed, as soon as you have 2 on empire
2+ on the first Tambo on empire
a tradeable luxury resource, and an almost guaranteed monopoly, which unlocks a corporation (Trader Sid's, probably)

Thankfully, It's hard to compare this to Gumey and burial tomb because you don't know how much gold you can get with trading your resources. It's more comparable to the Candi, no?
I'm a big fan of putting 0 culture/science on this thing, I think the UBs are overreliant on those...

 

[pineappledan]

I still think that hitnrun, which stays upon upgrade is so powerful, it can be only promotion of langskib and stay without anything else, making unit unique and strong.

I had forgotten that Can Move After Attacking was retained on promotion. It's added on each and every mounted/armor unit individually, so there is no reason for it to be kept. I'll update the SQL so that move on attack is lost on upgrade.