3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 87

[pineappledan]

It should have 12, exactly 2 less than the horseman. The idea is if you had enough strategics for a horseman anyways then it should have the same power as a horse, and even more if you have iron. The SQL is mapped to simply reduce 2 from the base horseman's power, so I don't understand how it would have 13CS unless horses were buffed back up to 15CS when I wasn't looking?

 

[adan_eslavo]

@pineappledan Let me know when all your stuff is ready. Im like babe in the woods.

 

[FoxOfWar]

It should have 12, exactly 2 less than the horseman. The idea is if you had enough strategics for a horseman anyways then it should have the same power as a horse, and even more if you have iron. The SQL is mapped to simply reduce 2 from the base horseman's power, so I don't understand how it would have 13CS unless horses were buffed back up to 15CS when I wasn't looking?

...huh. Then I really don't understand how I have a 13CS Iron Chariot.

Oh well. Pretty minor thing anyway (especially my current game that's full-on island-hopping). Will have to see if it persists.

 

[pineappledan]

@pineappledan Let me know when all your stuff is ready. Im like babe in the woods.

the new download is live right now. Download it from the front page and re-upload it under your own MUCVP page and I’ll switch the link over

 

[adan_eslavo]

I just grabbed files from github. v41.1 on official download link.

Complete changelog from last official download (v39):

v41.1
fixes:
    - reduced Etemenanki boost to 15% food/science,
    - fixed pogost lua bug,
    - removed production from Madrasa.

v41:
- 01/29 Compatibility:
    - Langskib ==> replaced Medic I with Blockade,
    - Teutonic Order ==> changed from YieldsOnVictory to new YieldsOnVictoryGlobal,
    - Madrasa ==> added YieldsOnFaithPurchase (15% faith cost to science); deleted old lua,
    - Alti Cur ==> added 2 free iron,
    - Increased SPAD RCS by 2 (a little too weak after fighter nerf).
- tweaked/modified:
    - Madrasa ==> added 5 Cu/Sci/Fai on GP expend,
    - Grande Ecole ==> removed production pop scaler; increased base yields.
- simplified:
    - Aztec UA ==> deleted lua for dummy promotion (trait table does same thing),
    - Seir Morb ==> lua trigger now fires on combat resolution instead of unit movement,
    - Madrasa ==> deleted lua (see above).

v40:
- 01/15 Compatibility:
    - (Byzantium/Indonesia/Korea) ==> re-added deleted coastal biases,
    - (Baan Chang, Andelvaegelse, and Agora) ==> added Building_YieldFromInternalTREnd.
- disabled/removed:
    - Horse Archer ==> disabled new promotion due to performance issues,
    - Polder Movement Restriction ==> deleted due to performance impact and poor reception.
- tweaked/modified:
    - E-temenanki     ==> increased instant yield from purchase to 25% of food/science,
                    ==> increased base yields to 4 culture, 4 food, 2 faith.
    - University of Coimbra ==> increased bonus to Universities to 3 gold,
    - Huey Teocalli    ==> added +3 Food to base Huey
    - Yassa Court     ==> removed Minority Happiness and Distress Reduction (now only reduces Illiteracy/Boredom). Needs reduction is more sensitive now; Yassa was too powerful.
    - Goedendag ==> Burgemeeste rework: now +50%CS if beginning turn in city,
- reworked: 
    - Gumey:
        ==> removed bonus per monopoly on empire (moved to Waag),
        ==> added +2 gold for trade routes to/from city,
        ==> added 2 Gold/Production/Culture if a Caravan moves through city (like village improvement).
    - Waag:
        ==> removed bonus Defense and %GPP for every import/export luxury,
        ==> removed +3 gold to Market in City,
        ==> added +5 base city defense,
        ==> added +1 Culture/Production/Gold for every Monopoly on Empire (moved from Gumey).
    - Riad:
        ==> removed bonus for TRs in city,
        ==> added +1 gold and +1 tourism per Era,
        ==> added 15% of gold converted to G Merchant Points in city,
        ==> fixed minor text error.
    - Teutonic Order:
        ==> removed Chapter promotion,
        ==> added +2 production to Castles on Empire,
        ==> increased faith to +4,
        ==> moved forward to Iron Working,
        ==> added -5% population threshhold for Reformation,
        ==> added 25 Faith on Kill.
    - Homestead:
        ==> removed 25% border Growth,
        ==> Ranch now claims owned resources,
        ==> added +25% settler/worker production,
        ==> Homestead unlocks Pioneer early,
        ==> added 15 production on citizen birth.
    - Persia:
        ==> removed +50% GA length on UA (unstacked from Pairidaeza),
        ==> increased Gold to GAP to 15%, up from 10%,
        ==> moved Pairidaeza unlock to Currency, reduced cost to 200,
        ==> increased yield per population on Satraps Court to 1 per 4, up from 1 per 5.
- fixed:
    - Shophet ==> fixed lua error

@pineappledan I looked through changes. I can see that many initial promotions or changes in MUCfVP are reverted now. Performance issues?

And you should update Persian picture in first post because the UA has changed.

 

[pineappledan]

I’ll update the OP link. Yeah, major performance issues with some of our changes. General consensus from users was that the changes won’t be missed.

 

[FoxOfWar]

Yeah, my games have definitely gone up in terms of stability. Haven't had a CTD in a fair bit, now that I think about it. Good job guys

 

[dylansan]

I hesitated to use this mod for now, as I'm still getting used to VP and I figured I'd have more consistent balance and stability without too many major gameplay mods. However, I'm struggling to resist. I was testing some things and started a game as the Maya with 4UC out of curiosity, and I might have trouble disabling it. I can just see this adding so much more depth and uniqueness to every game.

I'll just ask, though: how well balanced would you say it is at this point? VP is in the process of finalizing things and balancing as much as possible in order to "go gold" with a complete product free of glaring issues. How is 4UC, in comparison? I'd expect it's a bit further behind, as there probably hasn't been as much time to test every balance concern, but as long as there's no glaring issues, I'd like to stick with it. Any issues I should watch out for, or improvements I could expect in the future, if I start playing now?

 

[pineappledan]

I hesitated to use this mod for now, as I'm still getting used to VP and I figured I'd have more consistent balance and stability without too many major gameplay mods. However, I'm struggling to resist. I was testing some things and started a game as the Maya with 4UC out of curiosity, and I might have trouble disabling it. I can just see this adding so much more depth and uniqueness to every game.

I'll just ask, though: how well balanced would you say it is at this point? VP is in the process of finalizing things and balancing as much as possible in order to "go gold" with a complete product free of glaring issues. How is 4UC, in comparison? I'd expect it's a bit further behind, as there probably hasn't been as much time to test every balance concern, but as long as there's no glaring issues, I'd like to stick with it. Any issues I should watch out for, or improvements I could expect in the future, if I start playing now?

I'm certainly happy to hear you're liking it.

We don't have the benefit of G's AI games test-running the modmod, and we don't have the player base reporting bugs and balance issues. Everything that comes during medieval has been at least somewhat assessed for balance at this point, but later UCs take a long time for people to test, and the game can be going in a hundred different directions by then, so it's even more difficult to assess a UC's impact at that point.

The fact of the matter is that base VP has to balance 129 components against each other. 4UC is attempting to balance 215 components against each other, and with fewer resources. If indeed balance is a top concern then I would love for you to contribute your opinions and help make the mod better. If you are just having fun, then we've got 86 more toys for you to play with

 

[dylansan]

I'll definitely give it a shot. I might play some games with and some without, thought honestly I suspect I'll just stick with it. If I have thoughts on balance or anything else, I'll gladly contribute, though take it with a grain of salt, as I'm still very much getting used to everything.

I hope to be able to test some late-game stuff. The last few games I felt I wasn't prepared for an early war, and I hated letting my uniques go to waste. So I like the idea of having uniques later on, and more time to plan for their use.

Any civs/uniques in particular you'd most like to see tested? I like doing themed games with civs/leaders from similar time periods. Maybe I could limit it to Civs that have UUs from Industrial Era onwards.

 

[pineappledan]

That would be lovely, actually.

Ones that we're pretty shaky on still:
Austria
Japan
Arabia
America
Songhai
Zulu
China
Ethiopia
Korea
Ottomans
Persia
Siam
Venice

 

[Guynemer]

I just played an Ethiopia game prior to my Brazil game, and I wrecked shop, though I think that is mostly due to Ethiopia fitting my preferred style of play rather than any unbalancing done by the shotelai or the monolithic church. If anything, the stele is issue--I think it might be the single most powerful UB in the game. I didn't manage to get more than one or two mcs per city just based on my map; they are a fun UI, but not gamebreaking. And the shotelai were quite useful in defending my borders, but I never really got too aggressive with them.

 

[amateurgamer88]

I played a bit with Ethiopia on Immortal with Standard Speed and felt that they're challenging but not in a bad way. I agree that the Stele is very powerful as it lets you compete for the first religion and pick what you desire. The Monolithic Church is more terrain dependent and can be quite nice with its yields. Sadly, I didn't see its full potential since I had a snowballing China eating up her neighbors and about to share a direct border with me. Overall, Ethiopia feels like a civ that needs to really take advantage of the early game to snowball faster than all the other civs. Given that many important decisions take place early game, they are a very strong civ as it is.

 

[pineappledan]

Is this before or after the new China nerf? I feel like we gave China 2 semi-weak UCs, and yet Wu is always a strong contender anyways. She really is that out of control in base VP, huh?

 

[amateurgamer88]

I honestly remember if this was the nerf where China loses 100% of yields or just 50% but it's definitely after the nerf. China just has such a strong early game with a solid UU.

 

[dylansan]

I just started a game as America, and I noticed one of my uniques is the pioneer, which I didn't see listed here in the first post. Is that intended? I just saw it's mentioned in the latest changelog, though.

 

[pineappledan]

It’s functionally identical to the standard pioneer, but is unlocked by having a homestead in your city, rather than researching banking. It’s part of the homestead’s ability

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I think White Tower is not good. It has tons of tiny situational elements, but none combined will make it a good UB for when it comes out in renaissance. Even if the Constabulary/Arsenal effect applied to other cities, I still wouldn't call it a really good one. The yields are tiny for when it shows up unless you're super tall, and England's kit with two great UUs and a partially warmongering UA doesn't really encourage that.

I get the +1 from killing Spies which is easier for England with it's more plentiful, superior spies while -25% spy rate seems like it makes the Spy more likely to kill from my experience even if the reward is not exactly very good, but why +2 and +3 on Constabulary/Arsenal only in this particular city in renaissance? Just give the yields to the UNW by definition and remove some of the text, it's too late for such a quantity to make an impact if it's only in this one city. There's also a unique Great Work theming, but I understand the rationale behind that - it is Hermitage, after all, and you can in theory steal GWs.

The building feels like it needs more yields or more useful additions to be important. A Spy? A trade route? Both, maybe.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Just had a King Standard Speed game with Tradition Babylon. The UNW feels solid without feeling ridiculously OP but I do feel it's more geared towards Progress than Tradition. If any changes are to be made, I think something that helps Tradition play more is more desirable like a bit more Culture on Citizen Birth or more GA on policy unlock as suggested by @Enrico Swagolo . While it's true that the yields from the UNW doesn't compare with Banks for later buildings, I felt that, given the time it's available (Mathematics), the UNW gives you some solid yields for nearly two full era before Banking is available. For me at least, the UNW just needs a few minor tweaks and it's good.

 

[pineappledan]

I get the +1 from killing Spies which is easier for England with it's more plentiful, superior spies while -25% spy rate seems like it makes the Spy more likely to kill from my experience even if the reward is not exactly very good, but why +2 and +3 on Constabulary/Arsenal only in this particular city in renaissance? Just give the yields to the UNW by definition and remove some of the text, it's too late for such a quantity to make an impact if it's only in this one city. There's also a unique Great Work theming, but I understand the rationale behind that - it is Hermitage, after all, and you can in theory steal GWs.

I KNOW RIGHT?

This is hilarious to me because I got shouted down that the building yields were too high like a year ago. This is even though Smithsonian, a UNW for the SAME WONDER, gives 1010 in every city from Museums/Broadcast Towers.

I wanted those Constabulary/Arsenal bonuses to be global, so I left them as local bonuses and waited for people to get their heads screwed on straight.

Just had a King Standard Speed game with Tradition Babylon. The UNW feels solid without feeling ridiculously OP but I do feel it's more geared towards Progress than Tradition. If any changes are to be made, I think something that helps Tradition play more is more desirable like a bit more Culture on Citizen Birth or more GA on policy unlock as suggested by @Enrico Swagolo . While it's true that the yields from the UNW doesn't compare with Banks for later buildings, I felt that, given the time it's available (Mathematics), the UNW gives you some solid yields for nearly two full era before Banking is available. For me at least, the UNW just needs a few minor tweaks and it's good.

The ET gives 5% more GPP rate already, that's a nice tradition bonusMaybe I axe that and give 25 on birth instead?