3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 87

[pineappledan]

Hi guys how balanced would u say this mod is on a scale of 1-10?

*shrugs* How balanced is VP?

If VP is a 7, maybe we're a 4? It's still an ongoing project though, so download and join the conversation.

 

[Hinin]

I really don't like what I've done with Persia -- especially with the change to Civilized Jewelers -- but I feel like I'm up against a wall here.

I don't know how I can make the Pairidaeza an attractive building which compliments Persia's playstyle without mangling the UA or overlapping considerably with the Riad.

I really want to remove all the changes to the Persian UA and remove the +5%GA length from the Pairideaza.
Instead, I will move the +15% during GAs to the Pairidaeza from the Riad, and move the building forward to Engineering.

What else can I do with these 2 buildings (Pairideaza and Riad) and the Persian UA to make them work better together?
Maybe Give Riad +2 to both Land and Sea TRs, and 50 on completion of ITRs?
@Hinin, @Enrico Swagolo, @FoxOfWar, @adan_eslavo, @Blue Ghost, penny for your thoughts?

I don't mind seeing a UA being modified for the sake of the modmod, and taking the +50 % GA length down seems logical if we want to favor a 'wide Persia' playstyle that doesn't result in absurd GA length (Civilized Jewelers not being steadily obtainable, being conditionned on the obtention of specific monopoles)... One solution could be to transform the "GA length" scaling bonus into a "combat strength" during GA scaling bonus (replacing the "+15 % CS during GA" of the UA this time), the Pairidaeza being a hunting ground where Persian nobility fought wild beasts (mostly for the Great King to appear as a great warrior, but still).

So something like this

Spoiler Pairidaeza :

UB - Paradise Garden (replaces Garden):
Available at Currency
200 Production cost
does not require River
+3 Culture and +3 Tourism
+1 Food and +1 Gold to Citrus and Cocoa
+2 Gold to Oases
+25% Great Person Points
During a GA, units receive a +2 % (maybe +3 % ?) Combat Strength bonus
30 Culture when a Golden Age begins

This kind of bonus brings its own amount of balance problems, and it still mangles with the UA, but in a way that doesn't stack with Civilized Jewelers (and it regain its "+50 GA length" and its original "gold to GA" conversion ratio).
I don't have much more ideas, unfortunately...

 

[FoxOfWar]

Another option with Pairidaeza is to do away with any of the directly UA-related things, and stack on the last bit which I find interesting: instant yields when GA begins(+50// when a GA begins) That way, could leave the UA untouched. Would make Persia potentially aim for beginning GAs like Brazil, but more in infrastructure and less tourism.

Other option is that the building itself gives extra static yields during a golden age, but does not help getting them at all. (+4 /// during a golden age, for example). This would only potentially, indirectly make more golden age points during a golden age because of decreased unhappiness, but the yields would be more useful in general, and it would incentivize a playstyle that gets more golden ages without making it directly easier by just giving raw GA points.

 

[Cat-du-fromage]

BIG ISSUE! with the 41 (last version online) i can't use "Multiplayer Mods Workaround" to create modpack seems like there is a mod conflict. (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/mpmpm-multiplayer-mod-dlc-hack-updated.533238/)

i can create modpack with the v40 thought

since me and my firneds really like your mod, i hope you will fix it for ne next version^^

 

[pineappledan]

v41 has two versions: v41 and v41.1. v41.1 does NOT have the .1 marked in it because modpacks can't handle decimal places.

The first thing I would recommend is that you and your friends all re-download the most recent version, v41.1, and make sure that some of your group isn't trying to use 2 slightly different versions of the mod

 

[Cat-du-fromage]

the problem is not about game crash, but i can't create the MPMP modpack at all, sure we all use the same Modpack

EDIT: this part /user... does not appear when more component is enable

 

[pineappledan]

Oh. Sorry, can't help ya there. Hopefully whatever happened is resolved for v42, but I don't know what could be going wrong there, specifically. I don't do modpacks because all my friends are playing Stellaris

 

[pineappledan]

Aight, so here's what I have done:

• Reverted all changes on Persian components that aren't 4UC
• Pairidaeza now has +15% during GAs.
• Riad's +15% during GAs has been removed
• Riad now has -5% Gold purchase cost in city and 50 on ITR completion

Riad still has the scaling / on era change and 15% to GMerchant conversion. Pairidaeza still has the 30 on GA start and earlier/cheaper construction.

I think that's enough of a nudge. Neither building is all that strong on its own, but there's they slot in nice enough without being in Satrap's Court or Kasbah's way.
A static increase in yields is not sufficiently different from a % modifier to those same yields for me to be excited about making new dummy buildings and lua for it.
Making a scaling CS ability would not be elegant; you'd need 20+ interchangeable dummy promotions to make it work.

And now I don't have to update the picture in the OP. Yay!

 

[FoxOfWar]

Sounds like a plan to test out, then.

 

[pineappledan]

Well then let's try it out.

Quick and dirty unofficial release changelog:

v42:
- Compatibility:
    - Increased Theming Tourism bonus on Wat, White Tower, and Iziko
tweaked/modified:
    - Etemenanki ==> Set +GPR to the default +25%. Increased Culture for Citizen Birth to +25
    - White Tower     ==> Changed global building bonuses. Now +3 Culture on Castle/Arsenal and +3 Gold on Constabulary/Zoo
            ==> Removed -25% spy effectiveness
            ==> Added 100 Gold/Culture on killing spies, scaling with Era
    - Grande Ecole     ==> Removed the +2 Sci/Production at computers.
            ==> lowered Sci/Prod on Engineers/Scientists to +2
    - Added +15% gold generation to Pairidaeza. Removed GA length modifier
    - Removed all changes to Persian UA and Satrap's Court; they are now identical to base VP
    - Removed 15% gold generation during GAs from Riad. Added -5% hurry cost modifier and 50 gold ITR End instant boost
fixed:
    - Ranch: lua error resolved
    - Fixed text for Teutonic Order and Corsair

 

[Bhawb]

Just finished a game as Venice. Pretty standard settings, went full peacemonger, Tradition/Artistry/Industry - Freedom, ended up with a Culture Victory but was also at a big advantage for Science because I was really worried for a while whether I could manage the CV. Mongolia ultra ****ed me most of the game, they took over my entire starting continent (save myself and 1 City State I bought), and I spend 50% of the game with just 2 cities. I ended up picking up another 2 CSs, and there were just 4 city states for most of the game. Very interesting game, I could have played a lot better (Immortal difficulty) with my GP usage I think, but overall it was a fun game. I felt pretty powerful despite a poor position. Overall I think Venice feels really good to play still, even without me abusing the standard strategy of Authority -> warmongering mass puppeting.

As a side note, is there a way to stop puppets from screwing you over with wonders? Multiple times I had to restart/just accept that one of my puppets tried to build a program (Manhattan Project, Citizen Earth Protocol), and it ended up delaying my victory by 4 turns since CEP was built in a secondary city which took 8 turns instead of Venice's 4.

 

[infidel88]

Among other Netherland bugs - is Waag working ok for you? No change in caravansary and/or custom house for me

 

[pineappledan]

Are you using Enlightnment Era? Waags don't do that in EE.

Relevant code snippet:

INSERT INTO Building_ResourceYieldChanges
(BuildingType, ResourceType, YieldType, Yield)
SELECT 'BUILDING_NETHERLANDS_WAAG', ResourceType, YieldType, Yield
FROM Building_ResourceYieldChanges WHERE BuildingType = 'BUILDING_BANK';

 

[Illedran]

Can confirm that Waag does not work (does not increase yields of Caravansary and Customs House). There also is a small typo in the description. See attached picture from Civilopedia aswell (tested ingame).



EDIT: Found the fix, there is a mistake in ./Netherlands/Waag.sql. To fix it, replace

------------------------------  
-- Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges
------------------------------
INSERT INTO Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges
           (BuildingType,                   BuildingClassType, YieldType, YieldChange)
SELECT       'BUILDING_NETHERLANDS_WAAG',   BuildingClassType, YieldType, YieldChange
FROM Building_BuildingClassYieldChanges WHERE BuildingType = 'BUILDING_BANK';

with

------------------------------  
-- Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges
------------------------------
INSERT INTO Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges
           (BuildingType,                   BuildingClassType, YieldType, YieldChange)
SELECT       'BUILDING_NETHERLANDS_WAAG',   BuildingClassType, YieldType, YieldChange
FROM Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges WHERE BuildingType = 'BUILDING_BANK';

 

[pineappledan]

Fixed versions are up on github. Thanks for pointing those out, @Illedran

 

[Guynemer]

I am not getting bonus merchant points from gold from the Riad. It was a free Riad courtesy of the Hanging Gardens, FWIW. I am getting the increased overall GP generation.


EDIT: IGNORE ME. It doesn't show up in the UI, but the math shows that it is showing up.

 

[black213]

Byzantium's 1 turn anarchy upon entering a new era kind of plays bad with Way of Transcendence. Seems like all the gained production is wasted during the anarchy. Intentional?

 

[FoxOfWar]

Random wheel spun to Austria when I just started a Huge/World game. And... both added uniques are very very good. Admittedly a combination of things (location, religion) allowed me to settle to 30 cities early on, and float enough money to keep marrying city-states soon as I had 10 turns of alliance with them. By the time I got Schützenstand, I was getting a good +20 production/culture from it in each city, positively skyrocketing my gains. I'm now in early Modern era, making good 5k culture a turn (compared to my 1900 science). Whee.

Granted, playing with Unique City-States definitely gives additional edge to Austria already, so I would not completely go and say Schützenstand is particularly OP - it just helps you snowball rather ridiculously if you're already going strong with CS alliances. Though that can be said of some other added UBs with conditional yields too, and there is a rather obvious cap in the form of amount of city-states.

Landwehr obviously adds to the culture gains even more, but is also a very solid UC besides that. No complaints there.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

What will England get now that White Tower might belong to VP?

Random wheel spun to Austria when I just started a Huge/World game. And... both added uniques are very very good. Admittedly a combination of things (location, religion) allowed me to settle to 30 cities early on, and float enough money to keep marrying city-states soon as I had 10 turns of alliance with them. By the time I got Schützenstand, I was getting a good +20 production/culture from it in each city, positively skyrocketing my gains. I'm now in early Modern era, making good 5k culture a turn (compared to my 1900 science). Whee.

Granted, playing with Unique City-States definitely gives additional edge to Austria already, so I would not completely go and say Schützenstand is particularly OP - it just helps you snowball rather ridiculously if you're already going strong with CS alliances. Though that can be said of some other added UBs with conditional yields too, and there is a rather obvious cap in the form of amount of city-states.

Landwehr obviously adds to the culture gains even more, but is also a very solid UC besides that. No complaints there.

20 Production Culture means you've allied 17 CSs. On a standard map at this point the UB doesn't matter, you've won by allying every single CS + 1 that rebelled from a civ - every Chancery is 34 Production, Wire Service is 34 Science, you get all those yields and guaranteed fighting allies in case of a war. If you're playing on huge that's still the majority of CSs that are under your thrall.

It's a strong UB but to be really strong, you have to be winning. Similar to Waag in this regard - win more type of thing. Or so it felt when I played Austria.

 

[pineappledan]

We will just move the Steam mill into 4UC. We can make some changes to it, of course, and reconfigure it to our needs.

It's a strong UB but to be really strong, you have to be winning. Similar to Waag in this regard - win more type of thing. Or so it felt when I played Austria.

It's also stronger specifically because he played with a larger than normal map. standard setting would cap you at fewer CS allies. A game with UCS and on a huge map simply can't tell us anything meaningful about Austria balance.