1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    *shrugs* How balanced is VP?

    If VP is a 7, maybe we're a 4? It's still an ongoing project though, so download and join the conversation.
     
  2. Hinin

    Hinin King

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    614
    Location:
    Francia Occidentalis
    I don't mind seeing a UA being modified for the sake of the modmod, and taking the +50 % GA length down seems logical if we want to favor a 'wide Persia' playstyle that doesn't result in absurd GA length (Civilized Jewelers not being steadily obtainable, being conditionned on the obtention of specific monopoles)... One solution could be to transform the "GA length" scaling bonus into a "combat strength" during GA scaling bonus (replacing the "+15 % CS during GA" of the UA this time), the Pairidaeza being a hunting ground where Persian nobility fought wild beasts (mostly for the Great King to appear as a great warrior, but still).

    So something like this
    Spoiler Pairidaeza :

    UB - Paradise Garden (replaces Garden):
    Available at Currency
    200 :c5production: Production cost

    does not require River
    +3 :c5culture: Culture and +3 :tourism: Tourism
    +1 :c5food: Food and +1 :c5gold: Gold to Citrus and Cocoa
    +2 :c5gold: Gold to Oases
    +25% :c5greatperson: Great Person Points
    During a GA, units receive a +2 % (maybe +3 % ?) :c5strength: Combat Strength bonus
    30 :c5culture: Culture when a :c5goldenage: Golden Age begins


    This kind of bonus brings its own amount of balance problems, and it still mangles with the UA, but in a way that doesn't stack with Civilized Jewelers (and it regain its "+50 GA length" and its original "gold to GA" conversion ratio).
    I don't have much more ideas, unfortunately...
     
  3. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    405
    Location:
    Unimproved Forests of Finland
    Another option with Pairidaeza is to do away with any of the directly UA-related things, and stack on the last bit which I find interesting: instant yields when GA begins(+50:c5production:/:c5science:/:c5food: when a GA begins) That way, could leave the UA untouched. Would make Persia potentially aim for beginning GAs like Brazil, but more in infrastructure and less tourism.

    Other option is that the building itself gives extra static yields during a golden age, but does not help getting them at all. (+4 :c5food://:c5gold::c5science:/:c5culture: during a golden age, for example). This would only potentially, indirectly make more golden age points during a golden age because of decreased unhappiness, but the yields would be more useful in general, and it would incentivize a playstyle that gets more golden ages without making it directly easier by just giving raw GA points.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
    phantomaxl1207 and Hinin like this.
  4. Cat-du-fromage

    Cat-du-fromage Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
  5. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    v41 has two versions: v41 and v41.1. v41.1 does NOT have the .1 marked in it because modpacks can't handle decimal places.

    The first thing I would recommend is that you and your friends all re-download the most recent version, v41.1, and make sure that some of your group isn't trying to use 2 slightly different versions of the mod
     
  6. Cat-du-fromage

    Cat-du-fromage Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2018
    Messages:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
    the problem is not about game crash, but i can't create the MPMP modpack at all, sure we all use the same Modpack

    EDIT: this part /user... does not appear when more component is enable
    upload_2019-2-10_19-28-51.png
     
  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
  8. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Aight, so here's what I have done:
    • Reverted all changes on Persian components that aren't 4UC
    • Pairidaeza now has +15%:c5gold: during :c5goldenage:GAs.
    • Riad's +15%:c5gold: during GAs has been removed
    • Riad now has -5%:c5gold: Gold purchase cost in city and 50:c5gold: on :trade: ITR completion
    Riad still has the scaling :c5gold:/:tourism: on era change and 15%:c5gold: to :c5greatperson:GMerchant conversion. Pairidaeza still has the 30:c5culture: on :c5goldenage:GA start and earlier/cheaper construction.

    I think that's enough of a nudge. Neither building is all that strong on its own, but there's they slot in nice enough without being in Satrap's Court or Kasbah's way.
    A static increase in yields is not sufficiently different from a % modifier to those same yields for me to be excited about making new dummy buildings and lua for it.
    Making a scaling CS ability would not be elegant; you'd need 20+ interchangeable dummy promotions to make it work.

    And now I don't have to update the picture in the OP. Yay!
     
    phantomaxl1207 and Hinin like this.
  9. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    405
    Location:
    Unimproved Forests of Finland
    Sounds like a plan to test out, then.
     
  10. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Well then let's try it out.

    Quick and dirty unofficial release changelog:
    Code:
    v42:
    - Compatibility:
        - Increased Theming Tourism bonus on Wat, White Tower, and Iziko
    tweaked/modified:
        - Etemenanki ==> Set +GPR to the default +25%. Increased Culture for Citizen Birth to +25
        - White Tower     ==> Changed global building bonuses. Now +3 Culture on Castle/Arsenal and +3 Gold on Constabulary/Zoo
                ==> Removed -25% spy effectiveness
                ==> Added 100 Gold/Culture on killing spies, scaling with Era
        - Grande Ecole     ==> Removed the +2 Sci/Production at computers.
                ==> lowered Sci/Prod on Engineers/Scientists to +2
        - Added +15% gold generation to Pairidaeza. Removed GA length modifier
        - Removed all changes to Persian UA and Satrap's Court; they are now identical to base VP
        - Removed 15% gold generation during GAs from Riad. Added -5% hurry cost modifier and 50 gold ITR End instant boost
    fixed:
        - Ranch: lua error resolved
        - Fixed text for Teutonic Order and Corsair
    
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Bhawb

    Bhawb Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    500
    Just finished a game as Venice. Pretty standard settings, went full peacemonger, Tradition/Artistry/Industry - Freedom, ended up with a Culture Victory but was also at a big advantage for Science because I was really worried for a while whether I could manage the CV. Mongolia ultra ****ed me most of the game, they took over my entire starting continent (save myself and 1 City State I bought), and I spend 50% of the game with just 2 cities. I ended up picking up another 2 CSs, and there were just 4 city states for most of the game. Very interesting game, I could have played a lot better (Immortal difficulty) with my GP usage I think, but overall it was a fun game. I felt pretty powerful despite a poor position. Overall I think Venice feels really good to play still, even without me abusing the standard strategy of Authority -> warmongering mass puppeting.

    As a side note, is there a way to stop puppets from screwing you over with wonders? Multiple times I had to restart/just accept that one of my puppets tried to build a program (Manhattan Project, Citizen Earth Protocol), and it ended up delaying my victory by 4 turns since CEP was built in a secondary city which took 8 turns instead of Venice's 4.
     
  12. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Yuggoth
    Among other Netherland bugs - is Waag working ok for you? No change in caravansary and/or custom house for me
     
  13. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Are you using Enlightnment Era? Waags don't do that in EE.

    Relevant code snippet:
    Code:
    INSERT INTO Building_ResourceYieldChanges
    (BuildingType, ResourceType, YieldType, Yield)
    SELECT 'BUILDING_NETHERLANDS_WAAG', ResourceType, YieldType, Yield
    FROM Building_ResourceYieldChanges WHERE BuildingType = 'BUILDING_BANK';
    
     
  14. Illedran

    Illedran Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Can confirm that Waag does not work (does not increase yields of Caravansary and Customs House). There also is a small typo in the description. See attached picture from Civilopedia aswell (tested ingame).

    bank_bug.png

    EDIT: Found the fix, there is a mistake in ./Netherlands/Waag.sql. To fix it, replace
    Code:
    ------------------------------  
    -- Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges
    ------------------------------
    INSERT INTO Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges
               (BuildingType,                   BuildingClassType, YieldType, YieldChange)
    SELECT       'BUILDING_NETHERLANDS_WAAG',   BuildingClassType, YieldType, YieldChange
    FROM Building_BuildingClassYieldChanges WHERE BuildingType = 'BUILDING_BANK';
    
    with
    Code:
    ------------------------------  
    -- Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges
    ------------------------------
    INSERT INTO Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges
               (BuildingType,                   BuildingClassType, YieldType, YieldChange)
    SELECT       'BUILDING_NETHERLANDS_WAAG',   BuildingClassType, YieldType, YieldChange
    FROM Building_BuildingClassLocalYieldChanges WHERE BuildingType = 'BUILDING_BANK';
    
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    Hinin and pineappledan like this.
  15. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
  16. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Messages:
    477
    I am not getting bonus merchant points from gold from the Riad. It was a free Riad courtesy of the Hanging Gardens, FWIW. I am getting the increased overall GP generation.


    EDIT: IGNORE ME. It doesn't show up in the UI, but the math shows that it is showing up.
     
  17. black213

    black213 Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,425
    Byzantium's 1 turn anarchy upon entering a new era kind of plays bad with Way of Transcendence. Seems like all the gained production is wasted during the anarchy. Intentional?
     
  18. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    405
    Location:
    Unimproved Forests of Finland
    Random wheel spun to Austria when I just started a Huge/World game. And... both added uniques are very very good. Admittedly a combination of things (location, religion) allowed me to settle to 30 cities early on, and float enough money to keep marrying city-states soon as I had 10 turns of alliance with them. By the time I got Schützenstand, I was getting a good +20 production/culture from it in each city, positively skyrocketing my gains. I'm now in early Modern era, making good 5k culture a turn (compared to my 1900 science). Whee.

    Granted, playing with Unique City-States definitely gives additional edge to Austria already, so I would not completely go and say Schützenstand is particularly OP - it just helps you snowball rather ridiculously if you're already going strong with CS alliances. Though that can be said of some other added UBs with conditional yields too, and there is a rather obvious cap in the form of amount of city-states.

    Landwehr obviously adds to the culture gains even more, but is also a very solid UC besides that. No complaints there.
     
  19. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    2,379
    What will England get now that White Tower might belong to VP?

    20 Production Culture means you've allied 17 CSs. On a standard map at this point the UB doesn't matter, you've won by allying every single CS + 1 that rebelled from a civ - every Chancery is 34 Production, Wire Service is 34 Science, you get all those yields and guaranteed fighting allies in case of a war. If you're playing on huge that's still the majority of CSs that are under your thrall.

    It's a strong UB but to be really strong, you have to be winning. Similar to Waag in this regard - win more type of thing. Or so it felt when I played Austria.
     
  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,159
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    We will just move the Steam mill into 4UC. We can make some changes to it, of course, and reconfigure it to our needs.
    It's also stronger specifically because he played with a larger than normal map. standard setting would cap you at fewer CS allies. A game with UCS and on a huge map simply can't tell us anything meaningful about Austria balance.
     

Share This Page