pineappledan
Deity
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pineappledan
Deity
Because they’re a pain.
They often interfere with other improvement placements, and the resource placements required bespoke resource placement criteria and code which could be seen as a major impediment to integration.
And at the end of the day they weren’t that interesting or unique, with Indonesia and Rome doing more interesting versions of their placement bonuses.
With Egypt in particular, I have always felt the floating garden’s bonus on rivers should have always been Egypt’s to begin with. Egypt is all about the Nile, while Aztecs were more about the lake.
I should add that everything in the mod here is as I plan to submit for proposal to integration, and there will be an entire month to counterpropose different uniques. That includes simply reverting changes I’ve made here.
They often interfere with other improvement placements, and the resource placements required bespoke resource placement criteria and code which could be seen as a major impediment to integration.
And at the end of the day they weren’t that interesting or unique, with Indonesia and Rome doing more interesting versions of their placement bonuses.
With Egypt in particular, I have always felt the floating garden’s bonus on rivers should have always been Egypt’s to begin with. Egypt is all about the Nile, while Aztecs were more about the lake.
I should add that everything in the mod here is as I plan to submit for proposal to integration, and there will be an entire month to counterpropose different uniques. That includes simply reverting changes I’ve made here.
I understand your argument for Egypt quite well and change is good but the bison is still important for a Buffalo pound. Placement by dll works quite well for this type of resource and the building arrives early enough to not break a truly unique placement, a synergy around the theme would be rather interesting in my opinion instead of eliminating it.
pineappledan
Deity
The flax had issues with stacking up against Rome and Indonesia, both more interesting plantation resource placers. The theming was also weak. Flax was domesticated in Egypt, but the culture seems more tied to farms than plantations. A more flexible bonus to river tiles irrespective of improvement seems more flavourful.
The Buffalo had a stronger thematic tie-in, and is more unique. Very few things interact with camps. However, Shoshone already has a UI that overlaps on its placement requirements. if one of these blocks a location for an encampment, that’s not good.
The new bonuses (+1 gold to encampments, regardless of worked or not), and the removal of the stacking well/water mill thing are the big fixes I was more focused on. Those changes resolve existing problems with the Buffalo pound and with the Shoshone kit more broadly. adding economic incentive to encampments beyond working distance of cities ties the expansion bonuses together, and removing the incentive to build on rivers so you can build both well and watermill was weird for a civ from a semi-arid region.
The Buffalo had a stronger thematic tie-in, and is more unique. Very few things interact with camps. However, Shoshone already has a UI that overlaps on its placement requirements. if one of these blocks a location for an encampment, that’s not good.
The new bonuses (+1 gold to encampments, regardless of worked or not), and the removal of the stacking well/water mill thing are the big fixes I was more focused on. Those changes resolve existing problems with the Buffalo pound and with the Shoshone kit more broadly. adding economic incentive to encampments beyond working distance of cities ties the expansion bonuses together, and removing the incentive to build on rivers so you can build both well and watermill was weird for a civ from a semi-arid region.
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pineappledan
Deity
pineappledan updated More Unique Components for Vox Populi with a new update entry:
v88.1
Read the rest of this update entry...
v88.1
Read the rest of this update entry...
pineappledan
Deity
pineappledan updated More Unique Components for Vox Populi with a new update entry:
text fixes
Read the rest of this update entry...
text fixes
Read the rest of this update entry...
@pineappledan so is it already decided to intergrate 4UC? Asking about your proposals.
pineappledan
Deity
No, those are just for information. The vote hasn’t even been posted
Orange Chainsaw
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 22, 2022
- Messages
- 14
Just finished a Rome game on King, using the updated mod. Overall I was very satisfied, as earlier this year I struggled to close out a game with old Rome. Here are my thoughts on the new UB and UI:
Villa
The Good: Excellent yields all around. I could comfortably build 1-2 villas per city, and later on more as the borders expanded. It may not sound like much, but a villa with its fig plantation, plus a couple of surrounding farms, is enough to supply your city with most of what it needs for a very long time. Moreover, the food sent to your capital lets you consolidate into a sort of tall playstyle later on, even if you start out as Authority (which I did).
The Odd: The fig placement is random, but it didn't really bother me. Sometimes it spawns under other things (villages, GPTIs, etc.), which means you don't get the free plantation, but it's still a couple of extra yields so I have nothing to complain about. Overall, it's a feature you can't really plan around.
The Bad: I saw in the description that it's not buildable next to cities, but I was able to build them just fine - probably a bug that needs to be fixed. Additionally, the villa itself is permanent, which I understand is necessary to prevent abuse. However, this caused me to miss out on two archaeological sites, as well as a few unfortunately-placed sources of coal, oil and uranium. It would have been frustrating if I lacked these rare resources from elsewhere, which fortunately wasn't the case in my playthrough.
Fornix
The Good: It gives Rome a proper game plan! Conquer city-states (plus whatever civs you can manage), get a free Writer from each conquest, eventually get the Morale promo on all your units, and use those to scale into the lategame. The extra tourism per city is also useful, whether to get a CV or simply increase the rate at which your spies gain network points.
The Odd: The Fornix "charges" (Triumph) are stored as a Strategic Resource, similarly to paper. This was probably the most straightforward way to implement it, but...
The Bad: Triumph is affected by other mechanics that involve Strategic Resources. Near the end of the game, I got Third Alternative which doubled my Triumph, and essentially gave me 6 extra Great Writers which I used to fill out my ideology tree. Felt like an exploit. It's possible that the Foreign Service policy also gives Triumph, though I didn't test it myself - fortunately Statecraft is kind of anti-synergistic, since Rome wants to conquer city-states instead of allying them. But what happens if the loss of an allied CS makes you "lose" a Triumph and go into the negatives? Is there some sort of penalty?
Overall
In my previous playthrough, I ran out of steam due to a couple of factors. My overseas rivals (Korea, Japan) had a strong alliance against me, good defensive bonuses, and good terrain around their coastal cities. I was going for a Domination victory, but found that Rome didn't really have the lategame tools to help me against these obstacles. My only lasting bonus were the Colosseum yields, but Great Generals/Admirals can only take you so far. (I'll also admit that I'm not very skilled when facing 2+ strong civs all by myself.)
However! Rome now has an alternate game plan, which I would say is more viable than straight Domination in the long run. You use your strong UUs to conquer in the early game, as usual, then use the UB and UI to consolidate into a tall capital and a Culture Victory. It's a more Rome-centric playstyle, which I feel is a good fit for the civilization's theming.
I have attached some screenshots below. To capitalize on the food in the capital, I took the City of God founder from the More Beliefs mod. I conquered a few city-states, and after some wars I managed to vassalize Venice and eliminate Sweden, which left me without any significant neighbors as I converted my advantage to a Culture Victory. Attila was a scary contender who managed to conquer half the world, but I was able to stay good friends with him most of the time. (China and Greece really got to his nerves, and he hated them a lot more than he hated me.) Due to the Third Alternative exploit, I managed to close the game out pretty quickly at turn 297 (Standard), but even without it I'd have other options to win a more extended game, like using my land army to conquer nearby Budapest or the Aztecs. Fun kit.
Villa
The Good: Excellent yields all around. I could comfortably build 1-2 villas per city, and later on more as the borders expanded. It may not sound like much, but a villa with its fig plantation, plus a couple of surrounding farms, is enough to supply your city with most of what it needs for a very long time. Moreover, the food sent to your capital lets you consolidate into a sort of tall playstyle later on, even if you start out as Authority (which I did).
The Odd: The fig placement is random, but it didn't really bother me. Sometimes it spawns under other things (villages, GPTIs, etc.), which means you don't get the free plantation, but it's still a couple of extra yields so I have nothing to complain about. Overall, it's a feature you can't really plan around.
The Bad: I saw in the description that it's not buildable next to cities, but I was able to build them just fine - probably a bug that needs to be fixed. Additionally, the villa itself is permanent, which I understand is necessary to prevent abuse. However, this caused me to miss out on two archaeological sites, as well as a few unfortunately-placed sources of coal, oil and uranium. It would have been frustrating if I lacked these rare resources from elsewhere, which fortunately wasn't the case in my playthrough.
Fornix
The Good: It gives Rome a proper game plan! Conquer city-states (plus whatever civs you can manage), get a free Writer from each conquest, eventually get the Morale promo on all your units, and use those to scale into the lategame. The extra tourism per city is also useful, whether to get a CV or simply increase the rate at which your spies gain network points.
The Odd: The Fornix "charges" (Triumph) are stored as a Strategic Resource, similarly to paper. This was probably the most straightforward way to implement it, but...
The Bad: Triumph is affected by other mechanics that involve Strategic Resources. Near the end of the game, I got Third Alternative which doubled my Triumph, and essentially gave me 6 extra Great Writers which I used to fill out my ideology tree. Felt like an exploit. It's possible that the Foreign Service policy also gives Triumph, though I didn't test it myself - fortunately Statecraft is kind of anti-synergistic, since Rome wants to conquer city-states instead of allying them. But what happens if the loss of an allied CS makes you "lose" a Triumph and go into the negatives? Is there some sort of penalty?
Overall
In my previous playthrough, I ran out of steam due to a couple of factors. My overseas rivals (Korea, Japan) had a strong alliance against me, good defensive bonuses, and good terrain around their coastal cities. I was going for a Domination victory, but found that Rome didn't really have the lategame tools to help me against these obstacles. My only lasting bonus were the Colosseum yields, but Great Generals/Admirals can only take you so far. (I'll also admit that I'm not very skilled when facing 2+ strong civs all by myself.)
However! Rome now has an alternate game plan, which I would say is more viable than straight Domination in the long run. You use your strong UUs to conquer in the early game, as usual, then use the UB and UI to consolidate into a tall capital and a Culture Victory. It's a more Rome-centric playstyle, which I feel is a good fit for the civilization's theming.
I have attached some screenshots below. To capitalize on the food in the capital, I took the City of God founder from the More Beliefs mod. I conquered a few city-states, and after some wars I managed to vassalize Venice and eliminate Sweden, which left me without any significant neighbors as I converted my advantage to a Culture Victory. Attila was a scary contender who managed to conquer half the world, but I was able to stay good friends with him most of the time. (China and Greece really got to his nerves, and he hated them a lot more than he hated me.) Due to the Third Alternative exploit, I managed to close the game out pretty quickly at turn 297 (Standard), but even without it I'd have other options to win a more extended game, like using my land army to conquer nearby Budapest or the Aztecs. Fun kit.
pineappledan
Deity
Wonderful! Thanks for taking the new Rome for a spin. I’m really happy to hear the transition from early warmonger to cultural superpower is working as intended. The hope was that the new villa would unlock a expansionist tradition playstyle, and that the fornix could reinforce that if you had a good early game
This is a build prereq that I am trying to get added into the game. Adding it in myself is beyond my skill. For now I guess I could just ask players… not to build them next to cities
Yeah this is definitely not intended. I realized what I had done the night after I coded this. I am going to try to come up with a different implementation.
pineappledan
Deity
pineappledan updated More Unique Components for Vox Populi with a new update entry:
88.3
Read the rest of this update entry...
88.3
Read the rest of this update entry...
Orange Chainsaw
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 22, 2022
- Messages
- 14
Glad that you liked the feedback. One last comment that I forgot to add: the villas and the fig plantations make my cities very pretty to look at. Remind me of the Mediterranean countryside.
JudyBlueEyes
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2024
- Messages
- 3
Not sure if this is the spot but its not working for modded civs? I tried a few modded civs and theres no 4UC but the unmodded civs have them
Edit: Fresh install fixed this
Edit: Fresh install fixed this
Last edited:
pineappledan
Deity
pineappledan updated More Unique Components for Vox Populi with a new update entry:
88.4
Read the rest of this update entry...
88.4
Read the rest of this update entry...
Um, looks like Nalanda makes the city model disappear. Its just a flat tile, everything else is there, banner, etc, only the actual "city" model disappears. I've tested with IGE and removing Nalanda from the city and then reloading the game fixes the issue. Not sure if its a bug or some incompatibility with other mods, but my modlist is rather small
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