4,99$ For Babylon

Umm, what's NDA? :)

Non-disclosure Agreement.

It means he is probably part of some beta or game development, or was part of some beta or game development, and would like to explain to you using facts from whatever he is a part of. But because of the NDA, he could be sued for discussing such things.
 
Umm, what's NDA? :)

Non-Disclosure Agreement, as was already stated. :lol:

Had to run to the store.

Non-disclosure Agreement.

It means he is probably part of some beta or game development, or was part of some beta or game development, and would like to explain to you using facts from whatever he is a part of. But because of the NDA, he could be sued for discussing such things.

Exactly so.
 
This is Bobby Koticks fault someone should do somethin' about him...
 
Czacki, I couldn't give a rats about content-to-price ratio.

And if you do insist on that line of argument, do you realise that it's just as logical to claim the content-to-price ratio of the DLC proves that the game is an absolute bargain at the price it is? (not that many people would take that view :lol: but it's just as valid as yours)

Developers don't code something up and go "this is how much content there is, let's multiply it by z and we get the price it should be sold at". It's just silly. Any rational business person would sell something for the price that people are prepared to pay for it and such that it will generate a good revenue stream or value for the company. You don't base a price on some arbitrary figure that one of your customers insists on.


You'd be such a wonderous, forgiving clients. I'd love you and your money so much. I'd gladly go further and strip the car out of other "non-necessities" since you are so forgiving and care for my business. Why not? you're not angry, after all. And it sells.
Well honestly, if I had no need for a backseat (unlikely :groucho:) then I'd buy a car without one. If not, I'd just go to one of their competitors.:lol:
 
Czacki, I couldn't give a rats about content-to-price ratio.

I do respect money however. By not giving a rats about the ratio, you seem not to.. oh well, maybe you have a lot of money and don't care. I don't.

And if you do insist on that line of argument, do you realise that it's just as logical to claim the content-to-price ratio of the DLC proves that the game is an absolute bargain at the price it is? (not that many people would take that view :lol: but it's just as valid as yours)

And what prevents devs from selling it at the same "bargain" price? Hard to call it bargain since every game comes within more or less the same price range.

Developers don't code something up and go "this is how much content there is, let's multiply it by z and we get the price it should be sold at". It's just silly. Any rational business person would sell something for the price that people are prepared to pay for it and such that it will generate a good revenue stream or value for the company. You don't base a price on some arbitrary figure that one of your customers insists on.

As a customer, I don't give a rats about their profits and calculations. I'm a fan of a game, I see a small expansion, I want it but they want me to pay a big amount of money for a tiny add-on, so I don't buy it because its content to ratio sucks and I'm not happy about it. That's all.

Well honestly, if I had no need for a backseat (unlikely :groucho:) then I'd buy a car without one. If not, I'd just go to one of their competitors.:lol:

I'm talking about a person who wants backseats, but is forced to buy them later for a massive amount of money "cause they are optional" -> see DLCs.

And since there is no other dev making Civilization games, competition does not exist, I'm afraid ;)
 
Czacki, I couldn't give a rats about content-to-price ratio.

I do respect money however. By not giving a rats about the ratio, you seem not to.. oh well, maybe you have a lot of money and don't care. I don't.

I don't have a lot of money. But that's beside the point. When I say I don't care about the content-to-price ratio, you shouldn't interpret that as me saying I don't care how much it costs, because I do. However I don't look at entertainment products as content divided by price. If I go to see a movie for $10 or whatever, I don't go around whinging to everyone that even though it was a great movie the content to price ratio was pathetic and that I'd get better value from playing a $2 game I bought off the internet for 5 hours. (Actaully, I have seen people on the forum construct similar arguments about entertainment-time to price ratio just like what I described)

I'm still very curious as to what you'd say to someone who bought the Deluxe Edition for $90. If you are genuinely concerned about the price of video games because you don't have much money, what's stopping you from not buying the game so close to release? I assume you've already bought it, yes? Did you check whether you could buy it for less than $50? Did you buy it on steam, which tends to have not very competitive prices (except arguably at sales times)?

And if you do insist on that line of argument, do you realise that it's just as logical to claim the content-to-price ratio of the DLC proves that the game is an absolute bargain at the price it is? (not that many people would take that view :lol: but it's just as valid as yours)

And what prevents devs from selling it at the same "bargain" price? Hard to call it bargain since every game comes within more or less the same price range.

Right back at you. It's hard to call DLC a "rip off" since every other DLC for other games comes within more or less the same price range. ;)

Developers don't code something up and go "this is how much content there is, let's multiply it by z and we get the price it should be sold at". It's just silly. Any rational business person would sell something for the price that people are prepared to pay for it and such that it will generate a good revenue stream or value for the company. You don't base a price on some arbitrary figure that one of your customers insists on.

As a customer, I don't give a rats about their profits and calculations. I'm a fan of a game, I see a small expansion, I want it but they want me to pay a big amount of money for a tiny add-on, so I don't buy it because its content to ratio sucks and I'm not happy about it. That's all.

Fair enough. This is the method you use to determine the value to you, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry if I have come across as suggesting otherwise, which I may have done.

Well honestly, if I had no need for a backseat (unlikely :groucho:) then I'd buy a car without one. If not, I'd just go to one of their competitors.:lol:

I'm talking about a person who wants backseats, but is forced to buy them later for a massive amount of money "cause they are optional" -> see DLCs.

So we have a hypothetical car market where not a single dealer/seller sells cars with a backseat? That is really hard to imagine I have to say. But if it were the case, I'd just buy a second hand car from a year when they did come with backseats as standard, or from someone who has bought a new car and already paid to have the backseats installed. ;) I guess the point I should make here is that the backseat-of-car analogy is starting to not make sense any more.

The fact is we're talking about a digital entertainment product. As such it would probably be more apt to make analogies with other digital entertainment products. For starters, civ5 and its DLC is a product you can't legally resell. It's also something that can be duplicated by its seller for practically zero cost, unlike a car or its backseat.

And since there is no other dev making Civilization games, competition does not exist, I'm afraid ;)
This is an argument I have made in the past, but I think it's a bit in error. Going back to your car analogy, it'd be like saying that no one but Toyota makes Toyotas, so if I want to buy a Toyota there isn't any competition. Civilization (including civ5) is just another video game competing with hundreds if not thousands of other games on the market. You can argue that only a small portion of those are in the same genre, but it's not as if there is zero competition. There is GalCiv2 for example, and plenty of other good strategy games that compete for players of a certain mind.
 
I'm still very curious as to what you'd say to someone who bought the Deluxe Edition for $90. If you are genuinely concerned about the price of video games because you don't have much money, what's stopping you from not buying the game so close to release? I assume you've already bought it, yes? Did you check whether you could buy it for less than $50? Did you buy it on steam, which tends to have not very competitive prices (except arguably at sales times)?

Yup I bought civ 5. Tossing aside the fact that the game failed to entertain me, and I'm sad that I paid that much for it (not sure how much it was exactly, don't remember), I did. Why haven't I waited? Because I'm a civ fan. I longed for this game. Is that a good enough answer? :)

Right back at you. It's hard to call DLC a "rip off" since every other DLC for other games comes within more or less the same price range. ;)

And I agree. Every DLC is more or less a rip off compared to vanilla games. I can hardly think of DLC that had offered interesting content. That would justify the price, but usually those are just uninteresting additions (see Dragon Age).

Fair enough. This is the method you use to determine the value to you, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm sorry if I have come across as suggesting otherwise, which I may have done.

No offense taken, friend.

So we have a hypothetical car market where not a single dealer/seller sells cars with a backseat? That is really hard to imagine I have to say. But if it were the case, I'd just buy a second hand car from a year when they did come with backseats as standard, or from someone who has bought a new car and already paid to have the backseats installed. ;) I guess the point I should make here is that the backseat-of-car analogy is starting to not make sense any more.

Because it is a poor analogy, I must admit. I haven't come up with a better analogy so I used the first that made some sense at the time I was writing... but I agree with you, it's not a good analogy, exactly for the reasons you pinpointed.

What I wanted to address by that faulty analogy is that some things are considered "whole". Like games was... and now that changed, games are stripped of tiny parts (or they are omitted during creation and developed later) sold separately. If any other business that made people used to getting "full package" did that, it would be an outrage towards the clients. Sort of. However, right now, such practice in gaming industry, while not exactly popular among fans, is considered completely normal. What sort of saddens me since I miss the "good old times" of patches full of content that hasn't made it through deadline and solid expansion packs with lots and lots of new features and interesting plot development.

DLC is usually "plot-less" being an optional quest with a few lucre-items/maps/sounds/whatever, it feels... you know, without a "soul".


As for the competition, you are right of course, but I merely wanted to point that Civ is a very unique franchise and it's hard to find a proper replacement.

Cheers.
 
Actually the idea of products having "optional extas" is hardly unique to the gaming industry. If anything, gaming is just catching up with the rest of the world. I think what feels new about it to people is that we are now seeing optional extras being something completely digital, possibly describable as 'intangible'. Go to a hotel and you pay extra if you eat their chocolate bars. Buy a new car and you can buy it with or without ABS brakes (many argue that this safety feature should be mandatory in all new cars, and to my knowledge it already is in many states/countries). Buy a computer from a vendor like Apple and you have the option of including extras like a fancy mouse or additional preloaded software.

Lots of products these days come with packages that are intentionally separated from the main product. Buy a new operating system like Win7 and you can get the ultimate version or the incomplete home/basic version. Even boardgames often have expansion packs I think, as part of their sales strategy.

I don't necessarily like games having DLC, but I'm able to accept it as a reality and would rather not lose sleep over it.
 
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