gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
We're also questioning why would Siam need such submarines. What are you planning that could result into an eventual blockade?
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Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
A Clockwork Rainbow
- Thread starter SouthernKing
- Start date
Zappericus
Euro scumbag
The Italian Confederation, in favor with the FBU, sees the "merchant" submarine initiative by the Siamese government to be in violation of international trade laws. Unless they are preparing for a war in which they seek to protect their logistics network, of which we sincerely hope not, the Siamese have no reason to proceed with this undertaking in a time, no matter how unstable; of peace.
To add: Any government, not only including the Siamese, that deploy these "merchant submarines" within Italy's territorial waters are to be warned beforehand that the Italian Navy will sink these vessels without warning and deem it's presence in our waters as a provocative act of war.
To add: Any government, not only including the Siamese, that deploy these "merchant submarines" within Italy's territorial waters are to be warned beforehand that the Italian Navy will sink these vessels without warning and deem it's presence in our waters as a provocative act of war.
tobiisagoodboy
Prince
These ships are not armed and will not be used for smuggling. Sinking or attacking them, without reason, like the eupean imperialists threaten to do is therefore nothing but an admission that they think that they are better than the rest of the world. Even if these ships were used as blockaderunner, by neutral Nations, sinking them without warning, is just like sinking any other merchant ship. But it is, of course, well known that europeans only care about laws and free Trade, if it benefits their own degenerated corpses.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
To be fair, if one would make a comparison between Siam and Europe, they would come off with the conclusion that Europe's better.
From New South Wales
To Siam
As friends of your friends (namely, of Japan) and therefore a nation sympathetic to Siam, we would like to point out that in times of peace trade embargoes are defined not by naval blockades, but by non-acceptance of goods produced in your country in the port of destination. In other words, it doesn't matter how you deliver your merchant cargo to the port of destination: by sea, under water, by road, or by air. What matters is that the laws of the embargoing country would make any passing of customs, import, or transit of your goods illegal in that state, even if you deliver such goods with a use of ship or planes belonging to non-Siamese companies. Therefore, in time of peace your underwater merchant marine fleet is not only ineffective at trade but also provides you with no ways whatsoever to avoid embargoes - that is, unless your intent is to illegally smuggle goods into the countries embargoing you. Now, New South Wales believes in free trade and opposes embargoes as an economic tool, but it also believes that international mercantile norms should be respected and smuggling business and use of black market should be discouraged at all cost. Please do your best to explain your trade policies that could justify the creation of such a bizarre merchant fleet.
From New South Wales
To the Franco-British Union and Italy
Please note that sinking of vessels of another country, however exotic or suspicious they might be, is an act of war. International norms in regards to naval vessels suspected of smuggling, violation of borders, and poaching is organized, non-violent pursuit (optionally, with the use of warning shots) by patrol vessels, followed by boarding, arrest of the crew and the cargo, and subsequent criminal investigation. We trust your governments in showing cool-headed consideration for international norms and not escalating this bizarre enterprise of the Siamese government out of proportions.
To Siam
As friends of your friends (namely, of Japan) and therefore a nation sympathetic to Siam, we would like to point out that in times of peace trade embargoes are defined not by naval blockades, but by non-acceptance of goods produced in your country in the port of destination. In other words, it doesn't matter how you deliver your merchant cargo to the port of destination: by sea, under water, by road, or by air. What matters is that the laws of the embargoing country would make any passing of customs, import, or transit of your goods illegal in that state, even if you deliver such goods with a use of ship or planes belonging to non-Siamese companies. Therefore, in time of peace your underwater merchant marine fleet is not only ineffective at trade but also provides you with no ways whatsoever to avoid embargoes - that is, unless your intent is to illegally smuggle goods into the countries embargoing you. Now, New South Wales believes in free trade and opposes embargoes as an economic tool, but it also believes that international mercantile norms should be respected and smuggling business and use of black market should be discouraged at all cost. Please do your best to explain your trade policies that could justify the creation of such a bizarre merchant fleet.
From New South Wales
To the Franco-British Union and Italy
Please note that sinking of vessels of another country, however exotic or suspicious they might be, is an act of war. International norms in regards to naval vessels suspected of smuggling, violation of borders, and poaching is organized, non-violent pursuit (optionally, with the use of warning shots) by patrol vessels, followed by boarding, arrest of the crew and the cargo, and subsequent criminal investigation. We trust your governments in showing cool-headed consideration for international norms and not escalating this bizarre enterprise of the Siamese government out of proportions.
tobiisagoodboy
Prince
We build these ships in case they could be needed. In case somebody decides to blockade nations we Trade with. These ships are blockaderunner, nothing more. No smuggling OOC: Sinking an unarmed merchant ship, which these are, is against law. Merchant ships, that Happen to be submarines, are still merchant ships. Maybe some Crazy, rich People would be interested in a submarine Cruise liner ?
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Do not test our patience.
Saying that a vessel is civillian only because it is unarmed is akin to saying that military cargo planes and reconassiance aircrafts are civillian aircrafts because it is unarmed. It makes no sense, and shooting down the latter for violating Airspace is NOT violation of any international aviation laws.
Your role for this "merchant vessel," is a blockade runner. This is something that you have constantly mentioned as being its primary role. A blockade runner is almost certainly a military or criminal vessel designed for sneaking goods across border checks and patrols. We have further more said that we will only sink such vessels of they attempt to enter our waters, not international waters.
FBU rejects the idea that a vessel whose primary purpose is being a "blockade runner" is a civillian vessel. By Siam's own admission, all 'merchant submarine' designed for the express purpose of stealth operating in our waters will be considered either criminal or military in nature and either destroyed or captured if possible and expedient.
inthesomeday
Immortan
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2015
- Messages
- 2,798
Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso
The 14th Dalai Lama has been formally enthroned.
The 14th Dalai Lama has been officially given all political rights as the sole monarch of the Empire of Tibet. Discovered to be the Dalai Lama's current incarnation at only 2 years of age in Qinghai, Jetsun Jamphel Ngawang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso (born Lhamo Thondup), has spent the last 13 years closely studying the doctrine of the universe.
As of November 17, 1950, His Holiness has complete and sole control once again over the sovereign Empire of Tibet.
Any diplomatic dealings with the Empire of Tibet will, through one lane or another, reach the wise ears of the Ocean of Wisdom His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama.
࿋
Lord of Elves
Suede-Denim Secret Police
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2009
- Messages
- 6,976
From: Spanish Republic
To: Anyone Who It Concerns
CC: Italy, Greece
United in our common Latin and Hellenic heritage, our commitment to democracy, just governance and the elimination of the threat of international socialism at home and abroad, the Spanish Republic is proud to announce the signing of an economic compact with the Italian Confederation and the Hellenic Republic, that shall - God willing - forevermore protect the best interest and growth of our great nations. This compact is to be known as the Mediterranean Trade League, and its terms are enclosed below.
Signed, the Spanish Republic
To: Anyone Who It Concerns
CC: Italy, Greece
United in our common Latin and Hellenic heritage, our commitment to democracy, just governance and the elimination of the threat of international socialism at home and abroad, the Spanish Republic is proud to announce the signing of an economic compact with the Italian Confederation and the Hellenic Republic, that shall - God willing - forevermore protect the best interest and growth of our great nations. This compact is to be known as the Mediterranean Trade League, and its terms are enclosed below.
Mediterranean Trade League
- The signatories agree to form a trade compact, to be known as the Mediterranean Trade League. The League is an entity that is comprised of the signatories, and has no powers and authority of its own except that the signatories agree to abide by the terms of the arrangement which the League represents. At any time, the signatories may alter the terms of this treaty which binds the League, and the League will not be considered to be dissolved. At any time, members are free to leave the League and re-negotiate international treaties, compacts and agreements with members of the League and non-member nations.
- The signatories agree that as the Mediterranean Trade League, they will negotiate as a unit in regards the manufacture of vital goods and services such as arms, military equipment, industrial and agricultural machines, and the setting of taxes and tariffs on commodities, products and services from nations that are not members of the League.
- The signatories agree that other nations may be admitted to the League if and only if membership is approved unanimously.
- The signatories agree that membership in the League may be revoked only by a unanimous vote of the League's founding members (Spain, Italy and Greece)
- The signatories agree that in no way does the League obligate member nations to act militarily on each other's behalf, and failure to join another member nation in any war, police action or offensive will not be grounds to attempt to remove a nation from the League. Members of the League are free to make other treaties, alliances and defense compacts as they will so long as they do not nullify or violate the terms of the League's economic compact.
- The signatories agree to form a trade compact, to be known as the Mediterranean Trade League. The League is an entity that is comprised of the signatories, and has no powers and authority of its own except that the signatories agree to abide by the terms of the arrangement which the League represents. At any time, the signatories may alter the terms of this treaty which binds the League, and the League will not be considered to be dissolved. At any time, members are free to leave the League and re-negotiate international treaties, compacts and agreements with members of the League and non-member nations.
- The signatories agree that as the Mediterranean Trade League, they will negotiate as a unit in regards the manufacture of vital goods and services such as arms, military equipment, industrial and agricultural machines, and the setting of taxes and tariffs on commodities, products and services from nations that are not members of the League.
- The signatories agree that other nations may be admitted to the League if and only if membership is approved unanimously.
- The signatories agree that membership in the League may be revoked only by a unanimous vote of the League's founding members (Spain, Italy and Greece)
- The signatories agree that in no way does the League obligate member nations to act militarily on each other's behalf, and failure to join another member nation in any war, police action or offensive will not be grounds to attempt to remove a nation from the League. Members of the League are free to make other treaties, alliances and defense compacts as they will so long as they do not nullify or violate the terms of the League's economic compact.
Signed, the Spanish Republic
OOC: Is it just me, or does the MTL require no dedication and obligations whatsoever?
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
The Eurasian Economic Agreement is an an economic agreement between the Miedzymorze (Intermarium), Don Kuban, Moscow, Petrograd, and Romania.
1. Reduces tariffs amongst its members to zero on all goods, forming a common market.
2. Abolishes all restrictions and costs to the movement of capital between its members.
3. Uses a common currency, the EEA Złoty.
4. Uses a common system of weights and measures, standardization of traffic and trade systems (roads, rail, ship) to spur increased trade by reducing logistical restrictions thereto.
5. Adopts common practices in banking, investment, and financial law to spur shared economic growth and cross-border investment
6. Adopts a governing body for the resolution of local and shared economic and financial disputes and issues.
The Miedzymorze is proud to make known that in the interest of reducing polarization and growing cooperation, the Ljubljana Group and the EEA (see above) have agreed to share observational seats within each others organization, to confer with one another as appropriate in the spirit of cooperative development of shared prosperity (as appropriate) and to share in a common system of weights and measures, standardization of traffic and trade systems (roads, rail, ship) and regulations so as to spur increased trade by reducing logistical restrictions thereto (and to assist in shipment of goods between Hungary/ILlyria and Finland which is heavily dependent upon Miedzymorze shipping and transport infrastructure due to geography).
From Miedzymorze,
To Russian Republic in Yekaterinburg (@Bair_the_Normal)
The Miedzyemorze and our allies in Moscow are sick of war and suffering as we know you are too. To that end, we offer a white peace at current borders. Realistically, this is by far the best offer you'll get. Its also the last time we'll offer it. If you force us to defend our allies in Moscow or its people, it will be you that will pay the price in treasure and blood.
You have freedom and your own nation. Do not squander it. Choose peace.
From Miedzymorze,
To Transcaucasia,
1) We offer you an observational seat at the EEA.
2) We would like to open more formal trade agreements with you that would see you gain access to the EEA markets for your oil (at present your neighbors, including us to some degree, all produce their own oil and see you as a competitor and not a market so this should benefit you) in exchange for EEA access to your finished goods markets. Should you agree you may gain access to the central European markets via Miedzeymorze shipping infrastructure. Increased oil revenue for yourselves, and increased trade revenue for ourselves is beneficial to both parties.
3) We invite you to join with the EEA and the Ljublanja groups in developing a shared system of weights and measures and shipping protocols to assist in reducing logistical difficulties in shipping between our peoples.
1. Reduces tariffs amongst its members to zero on all goods, forming a common market.
2. Abolishes all restrictions and costs to the movement of capital between its members.
3. Uses a common currency, the EEA Złoty.
4. Uses a common system of weights and measures, standardization of traffic and trade systems (roads, rail, ship) to spur increased trade by reducing logistical restrictions thereto.
5. Adopts common practices in banking, investment, and financial law to spur shared economic growth and cross-border investment
6. Adopts a governing body for the resolution of local and shared economic and financial disputes and issues.
a. Specifically, the entirety of our shared region will be divided into 199 districts, with each district representing approximately the same number of people- rural districts being geographically larger and municipal districts being smaller.
b. Each district will appoint a representative to the EEA governing body.
c. The EEA governing body will resolve disputes and act as arbitrators of disputes as they arise, ruling fairly with compassion and knowledge, developing expert bodies to advise and develop economic plans as appropriate.
d. The EEA will have oversight from government agents of its member countries to prevent graft, corruption, and unfair business practices. To that end, annual audits will be performed to ensure fair practices.
b. Each district will appoint a representative to the EEA governing body.
c. The EEA governing body will resolve disputes and act as arbitrators of disputes as they arise, ruling fairly with compassion and knowledge, developing expert bodies to advise and develop economic plans as appropriate.
d. The EEA will have oversight from government agents of its member countries to prevent graft, corruption, and unfair business practices. To that end, annual audits will be performed to ensure fair practices.
The Miedzymorze is proud to make known that in the interest of reducing polarization and growing cooperation, the Ljubljana Group and the EEA (see above) have agreed to share observational seats within each others organization, to confer with one another as appropriate in the spirit of cooperative development of shared prosperity (as appropriate) and to share in a common system of weights and measures, standardization of traffic and trade systems (roads, rail, ship) and regulations so as to spur increased trade by reducing logistical restrictions thereto (and to assist in shipment of goods between Hungary/ILlyria and Finland which is heavily dependent upon Miedzymorze shipping and transport infrastructure due to geography).
From Miedzymorze,
To Russian Republic in Yekaterinburg (@Bair_the_Normal)
The Miedzyemorze and our allies in Moscow are sick of war and suffering as we know you are too. To that end, we offer a white peace at current borders. Realistically, this is by far the best offer you'll get. Its also the last time we'll offer it. If you force us to defend our allies in Moscow or its people, it will be you that will pay the price in treasure and blood.
You have freedom and your own nation. Do not squander it. Choose peace.
From Miedzymorze,
To Transcaucasia,
1) We offer you an observational seat at the EEA.
2) We would like to open more formal trade agreements with you that would see you gain access to the EEA markets for your oil (at present your neighbors, including us to some degree, all produce their own oil and see you as a competitor and not a market so this should benefit you) in exchange for EEA access to your finished goods markets. Should you agree you may gain access to the central European markets via Miedzeymorze shipping infrastructure. Increased oil revenue for yourselves, and increased trade revenue for ourselves is beneficial to both parties.
3) We invite you to join with the EEA and the Ljublanja groups in developing a shared system of weights and measures and shipping protocols to assist in reducing logistical difficulties in shipping between our peoples.
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Seon
Not An Evil Liar
To: Ljubijana group
CC: Intermarium Federation
From: FBU
The FBU requests an observer status in the Ljubijana Group as a response to the granting of such status to the EEA.
CC: Intermarium Federation
From: FBU
The FBU requests an observer status in the Ljubijana Group as a response to the granting of such status to the EEA.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
Zappericus
Euro scumbag
Signed,
Umberto II, King of Italy
Matteo Romano Monti, Prime Minister of Italy
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
FBU publicly expresses concern with the Mediterranean Trade League as it was not counted in the discussion despite sharing of Latin heritage and its presence in the Mediterreanean.
No official diplomatic protest is forthcoming, but the Union recommends that it either be entered as a full founding member of the League, or the League dissolved and negotiations begun again.
No official diplomatic protest is forthcoming, but the Union recommends that it either be entered as a full founding member of the League, or the League dissolved and negotiations begun again.
Lord of Elves
Suede-Denim Secret Police
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2009
- Messages
- 6,976
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
I'm on my phone so I can't make the fancy signatures but all relevant NPCs confirm the things in Immaculate's post.
In the interests of international cooperation, the Ljubljana Group also accepts the Franco-British Union as observers. We are very pleased we have been able to bring the European powers closer together and we hope we can facilitate a neutral forum of discussion. However, we do remind both the Intermarium and the FBU that they are exactly that - observers - and that attempts to influence internal policy will be frowned upon.
In the interests of international cooperation, the Ljubljana Group also accepts the Franco-British Union as observers. We are very pleased we have been able to bring the European powers closer together and we hope we can facilitate a neutral forum of discussion. However, we do remind both the Intermarium and the FBU that they are exactly that - observers - and that attempts to influence internal policy will be frowned upon.
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
To Italy and Spain
From The Franco-British Union
The FBU reminds both nations that the nations of Italy and Spain are part of the European Economic Community, and that their obligations to the EEC supersedes that of the obligation to the Mediterranean Trade League.
The Union calls for a conference to formalize the obligations of nations to the European Economic Community charter.
From The Franco-British Union
The FBU reminds both nations that the nations of Italy and Spain are part of the European Economic Community, and that their obligations to the EEC supersedes that of the obligation to the Mediterranean Trade League.
The Union calls for a conference to formalize the obligations of nations to the European Economic Community charter.
jackelgull
An aberration of nature
To: all signatories of the Mediterranean Trade League
From:The Ottoman Empire
It is concerning to us that we, a nation who plays an important role in Mediterranean trade were left out of agreements of such a league. This action makes it seem as though we are outsiders, both political and economically to Europe - that we are enemies to be vanquished economically or otherwise, when in fact we seek nothing but peace in Europe and cooperation. Might we remind you that we are among the largest oil exporters to Europe and that without oil there would be no energy? If Roman heritage is a concern for some odd reason, then might we remind you that the Ottoman Empire consists of most of the land of the Eastern Roman Empire? We are almost half of the Roman Empire, and yet you did not include us. Unless we are made a founding member of this Mediterranean Trade League, the Ottoman Empire will be forced to consider it a hostile economic entity and act accordingly.
From:The Ottoman Empire
It is concerning to us that we, a nation who plays an important role in Mediterranean trade were left out of agreements of such a league. This action makes it seem as though we are outsiders, both political and economically to Europe - that we are enemies to be vanquished economically or otherwise, when in fact we seek nothing but peace in Europe and cooperation. Might we remind you that we are among the largest oil exporters to Europe and that without oil there would be no energy? If Roman heritage is a concern for some odd reason, then might we remind you that the Ottoman Empire consists of most of the land of the Eastern Roman Empire? We are almost half of the Roman Empire, and yet you did not include us. Unless we are made a founding member of this Mediterranean Trade League, the Ottoman Empire will be forced to consider it a hostile economic entity and act accordingly.
