A comprehensive UU guide (the updated thread)

[kniteowl]

Yeah this is gonna seem like ALOT of work for Aelf lol with UU changing where they're Produced in the tech line eg -Plalanx, Cossacks & Conquistador

Some units had minor changes, eg- Hwacha cannot kill, Samurai start with Drill 1 and can Promote down Drill line, Chukonu's only early UU that can deal collateral Damage to Siege. I wonder how the Flank Attacks will improve the Mounted UUs.

 

[Wodan]

Yeah, we're all getting a handle on it, that's for sure. I know for me it'll be a long while before I have a grasp on all the subtle interaction changes. I wouldn't presume to even begin to pontificate until I get past that point.

Wodan

 

[aelf]

Well, I'm starting on it. I'm also starting to ask for ideas. I think it shouldn't take long to get a general idea of how a UU works. We can always put in additional tips later when we've learnt more.

I'm working on the Phalanx entry now.

 

[Bjorn190]

Musketeers also got a boost since its harder to reach grenadiers now, and cavalry is no longer the prize of winning the liberalism race.

Knights are looking good.. especially cataphracts lol who are basically 2 move grenadiers at guilds.. :O If the leader was financial that would be really cool hehe.. not even pikes stand a chance against these badbuys.. you need War elephants for 50% or even better, Ballista Elephants for special ops cataphract assasination (awesome against knights too)

 

[Wodan]

Knights are looking good.. especially cataphracts lol who are basically 2 move grenadiers at guilds.. :O If the leader was financial that would be really cool hehe.. not even pikes stand a chance against these badbuys.. you need War elephants for 50% or even better, Ballista Elephants for special ops cataphract assasination (awesome against knights too)

I'm playing as Justinian right now. Why do you say that about Pikes? They have exactly the same chance as Elephants.

Wodan

 

[aelf]

How about the new Conquistadors?

 

[Wodan]

Aelf, you're asking how Conquistadors would stand up as a counter to Cataphracts, or how Conquistadors stand period?

For the former, I wouldn't suggest you present a UU as a counter, period. It is so situational that it wouldn't belong in either the Spain or Byzantine entries.

For the latter, beats me. I haven't played or played against them in BtS yet.

Wodan

 

[Mad2rix]

Imagine how useful or cunning the Aztec Jaguars are in tropical areas in BTS version, having woodsman III as one of newest promotion.

 

[kniteowl]

haven't played Spain on BTS but looking at this from a theory standpoint, they still have no counter except elephants and other Mounted units same strength.

So therefore you can't use Pikes to counter them like normal.

They appear to have a much shorter lifespan so It seems from my perspective it'd be best to to produce a couple of GMs and upgrade you're old Horse Archers and Knights and use them before the Middle ages end.

 

[aelf]

Aelf, you're asking how Conquistadors would stand up as a counter to Cataphracts, or how Conquistadors stand period?

For the former, I wouldn't suggest you present a UU as a counter, period. It is so situational that it wouldn't belong in either the Spain or Byzantine entries.

For the latter, beats me. I haven't played or played against them in BtS yet.

Hmm... I think I got confused. I had heard that Conquistadors are a cuirassier replacement in BTS. Maybe that is outdated info.

 

[Scaphism]

Conquistadors were moved back to replace cuirassiers.
I don't understand that move - at that point the +50% vs melee is all but irrelevant, unless you are fighting an entirely backwards civ. And if they're that backwards, you don't really need that advantage.

I'd say that Conquistadors were a very strong UU as a knight replacement. The main thing holding them back was that knights weren't a dominant military unit of their era.

Moving Conquistadors back to cuirassiers weakened them severely IMO.

 

[aelf]

^^So I was right about the change. Yeah, what's the point of the bonus against melee then? This almost seems completely overlooked.

 

[Slobadog]

The bonus means it can beat pikes. Normally pikes and cuirassiers are 50-50.

A Promotion advantage is a nice way to break deadlocks.
In the early part of the game the stable provided a major advantage. But this isn't the early part of the game. There are so many promo providers available to the melees at this point. And There will definatly be promo deadlock if the enemy leader has the aggressive trait. Then there is the pikes fortifiy bonus to consider. And due to he siege nerf using artillery all the time is a very costly endevour. This is where you need a 50% bonus vs melee.

 

[aelf]

The bonus means it can beat pikes. Normally pikes and cuirassiers are 50-50.

A Promotion advantage is a nice way to break deadlocks.
In the early part of the game the stable provided a major advantage. But this isn't the early part of the game. There are so many promo providers available to the melees at this point. And There will definatly be promo deadlock if the enemy leader has the aggressive trait. Then there is the pikes fortifiy bonus to consider. And due to he siege nerf using artillery all the time is a very costly endevour. This is where you need a 50% bonus vs melee.

Good point. But curiassiers need gunpowder, yes? I think like in the age of the musket, Shock is no longer as desirable a promotion. This change is definitely a nerf to the Conquistador.

 

[kniteowl]

Good point. But curiassiers need gunpowder, yes? I think like in the age of the musket, Shock is no longer as desirable a promotion. This change is definitely a nerf to the Conquistador.

True I was thinking they should change the Conquistador's tech requirements. Make it you can build them without Gunpowder but decrease their Strength to balance it out IF required.

People generally beeline down through education and Liberalism anywayz so they should be able to get Military Tradition relatively early enough for an advantage.

 

[UncleJJ]

Conquistadors were moved back to replace cuirassiers.
I don't understand that move - at that point the +50% vs melee is all but irrelevant, unless you are fighting an entirely backwards civ. And if they're that backwards, you don't really need that advantage.

Except that historically the conquistadors were only so startlingly successful because they fought the incredibly backward Aztec and Incan empires that did not even have bronze or iron. They fought stone age technology with guns, germs and steel. There were no successes of conquistadors in Spain's european wars of the time, it was the Tercio that dominated the age (essentially pikes and muskets). Putting them as a knight replacement would be far too early although a cuirassier might be a bit late, and we need something between. Maybe replacing knights but requiring Astronomy and Gunpowder would be more appropriate in an historical sense but no other UU has such complex requirements and it might be unfair in game terms.

 

[aelf]

Except that historically the conquistadors were only so startlingly successful because they fought the incredibly backward Aztec and Incan empires that did not even have bronze or iron. They fought stone age technology with guns, germs and steel. There were no successes of conquistadors in Spain's european wars of the time, it was the Tercio that dominated the age (essentially pikes and muskets). Putting them as a knight replacement would be far too early although a cuirassier might be a bit late, and we need something between. Maybe replacing knights but requiring Astronomy and Gunpowder would be more appropriate in an historical sense but no other UU has such complex requirements and it might be unfair in game terms.

Well, strictly speaking Conquistador was not a type of soldier (eg. a Conquista-wielding infantryman or something). To be historically accurate, they would do better with rodeleros, which would also be problematic for the Civ4 timeline.

Conquistadors as a replacement for explorers is as close as Civ ever got, but I'm not sure how effective that was or would be.

 

[SickCycle]

Sorry, I meant to post this on your strategy thread discussing changes.

Not sure how to delete, or if someone else wants to, I'm putting the post in the correct thread.

 

[aelf]

Added the entry on Oromo.

 

[Percy]

Ethiopia: Oromo Warrior (Musketman)

BTS only. Musket UUs generally don't get a lot of love, although the ones that the game has to offer are actually quite useful. But even if you're really not a fan of musket UUs, give the Oromo Warrior a try before you knock it. It starts with a First Strike, as well as Drill I and II promotions. That means 4 First Strikes out of the box

Text bolded by me.

I believe this is wrong: Drill I gives 1 Extra First Strike Chance, and Drill II gives 1 Extra First Strike and -20% Collateral Damage.

So an out-of-the-box Oromo has the following characteristics:
- Immune to First Strikes
- 2-3 First Strikes
- -20% Collateral Damage