I guess that mapscript is completely useless - there should be terrain named Orbit right at Earth.
A guide to Space and the Future
- Thread starter pepper2000
- Start date
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
@raxo2222
MAPCATEGORY_SOLAR_SYSTEM
MAPCATEGORY_MILKY_WAY
MAPCATEGORY_GALACTIC
MAPCATEGORY_INTERSTELLAR
MAPCATEGORY_DISTANT
MAPCATEGORY_HYPERSPACE
MAPCATEGORY_UNIVERSAL
Can you please clarify what each of these actually are without getting too detailed? I'm a little lost as to what is what exactly. Are these placed in order of how far out they are? I tried to read your previous posts and got a bit confused since you were talking about voids and such and I'm not seeing those as map categories exactly, and perhaps they are plot types, but I'm looking for a more general description of each of these maptypes specifically if you would please. I'm trying to figure out what kind of units would be able to go where.
MAPCATEGORY_SOLAR_SYSTEM
MAPCATEGORY_MILKY_WAY
MAPCATEGORY_GALACTIC
MAPCATEGORY_INTERSTELLAR
MAPCATEGORY_DISTANT
MAPCATEGORY_HYPERSPACE
MAPCATEGORY_UNIVERSAL
Can you please clarify what each of these actually are without getting too detailed? I'm a little lost as to what is what exactly. Are these placed in order of how far out they are? I tried to read your previous posts and got a bit confused since you were talking about voids and such and I'm not seeing those as map categories exactly, and perhaps they are plot types, but I'm looking for a more general description of each of these maptypes specifically if you would please. I'm trying to figure out what kind of units would be able to go where.
Here is mapmaking guide: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/guide-to-space-map-making.656681/
It contains mapcategories and list of terrains among other things.
So map category is group of terrains. Terrain may have multiple mapcategories.
I sorted them by distance in mapcategory infos.
MAPCATEGORY_CISLUNAR - Earth neighbourhood.
MAPCATEGORY_MAPCATEGORY_LUNAR - Moon
MAPCATEGORY_SOLAR_SYSTEM - Deep space (entire solar system except Orbit/Cislunar Space/Moon/Mars/Venus/Titan)
MAPCATEGORY_MARTIAN - Mars
MAPCATEGORY_VENUSIAN - Venus
MAPCATEGORY_JOVIAN - Planets (NOT Mars/Venus), moons (NOT Moon/Titan), asteroids and Kuiper belt objects.
MAPCATEGORY_TITANIC - Titan - moon of Saturn.
MAPCATEGORY_INTERSTELLAR - Nearby stars, separates stuff from farther zones.
MAPCATEGORY_PLASMA - Nearby stars themselves
MAPCATEGORY_GALACTIC - General category for transtellar space, stars, Orion Arm and Milky Way - equivalent of Solar System mapcategory.
MAPCATEGORY_MILKY_WAY - Orion Arm and Milky Way
MAPCATEGORY_UNIVERSAL - Extragalactic space
MAPCATEGORY_DISTANT - Universe beyond cosmic horizon - essentially extragalactic space very far away,
MAPCATEGORY_HYPERSPACE - Artificial terrain generated by hyperspace settlers and chronoforming ships.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Ok, that all sorted it out for me perfectly. Thanks!
So just to confirm, in terms of farther and farther distances being represented per tile, this would be the order?
MAPCATEGORY_SOLAR_SYSTEM
MAPCATEGORY_INTERSTELLAR
MAPCATEGORY_MILKY_WAY
MAPCATEGORY_GALACTIC
MAPCATEGORY_UNIVERSAL
MAPCATEGORY_DISTANT
MAPCATEGORY_HYPERSPACE
Yeah.
But all terrains, that have mapcategory of MAPCATEGORY_MILKY_WAY or MAPCATEGORY_INTERSTELLAR have map category of MAPCATEGORY_GALACTIC too.
That is MAPCATEGORY_GALACTIC is container for extrasolar stuff.
MAPCATEGORY_HYPERSPACE can be created by units on MAPCATEGORY_UNIVERSAL and MAPCATEGORY_DISTANT terrain tiles.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
hmm... If I recall, if a tile is more than one map type, the unit only needs to be qualified to be there by being able to go into one of them, not necessarily all of them? (it could always be changed of course if needbe, just trying to recall how it is now.)
Or would a unit need to have all mapcategories of the tile to be able to move into it?
Or would a unit need to have all mapcategories of the tile to be able to move into it?
Units need only one map category to be able to move on all terrains with that mapcategory.
Normal water terrains have map category of Earth and Aquatic, but all Earthly units have only Earth mapcategory.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
OK, that does make things a bit easier then thanks.
Not sure if this is the right thread to post in, but I'm on my ~8th game of C2C and disabled all victory conditions (except mastery/time) so I could play through tech tree and explore space. I am using 40.1 and playing custom scenario with the included map "A Space Map Duel06V1" on which I started 6 players, normal game speed, emperor.
So far it's been amazing. Just hit information era in 1960s. So far have a bunch of level 1 space stations built with shuttles, lunar probes launched, and the Mercury, Venus, Mars etc mission rewards just coming in, so exciting times!
One issue I had throughout the game is with latitude/longitude, eg unable to build deer trainer etc and now unable to build Svalbard and Kemi Castle ("redded out in my wonders tab), but I see there is a thread on this so I guess this is on me.
Another is automated workers seem buggy. I know we generally are "not supposed to" automate workers but there is a lot of tedium. In vanilla BTS I can automate and poof my roads are all efficiently converted to railroads...here it seemed to not reliably work to convert my infrastructure - even when I specifically click "build trade network". I wonder if automation is harder on the AI given so many worker choices.
I also was perplexed why satellites revealed the entire space map but read a post somewhere by Pepper just now that that happens.
However prior to that in the 1700s, which I tied to the Congress of Vienna wonder, I - but also all my enemies - were contacted by two new civilizations - The Green Man and Barbarian. (possibly relevant - I have checked option "Peace among NPC" because I read this speeds up turns). These civs are located on a second earth zone that is situated in a vertical layer beyond the Oort cloud after which there is a second lunar layer and what appears to be a second earth layer. Is the second earth intended to be populated by other civilizations? It seemed they were very behind and backward at first but are catching up to my enemies. Is this second earth designed to be a nice habitable extrasolar planet, and humanoid aliens, or is this a bug? I figured I would have virgin territory to conquer.
Additionally, my lunar rovers were greeted, on both moon layers (the one close to me and the transneptunian one), by true Barbarian State lunar cities - all size 1. I say "true" because these are not cities of the Barbarian civilization inhabiting second earth. Is this right? Even weirder, since I was just exploring I launched like 30 lunar rovers and one of them landed on the city square of one barbarian city and I was given the option to capture it. I took it, and I think because the game considers this an "earth" city, it can do nothing on the lunar square -- eg zero building options (I'll raze later).
(edit - btw there are barbarian stone throwers still on the city square, with the red enemy circle marking around them, and yet I still own the city)
Amazing game. To pass time between turns I also have a second game going on my desktop - a vertical space map game but I'm only early atomic there.
So far it's been amazing. Just hit information era in 1960s. So far have a bunch of level 1 space stations built with shuttles, lunar probes launched, and the Mercury, Venus, Mars etc mission rewards just coming in, so exciting times!
One issue I had throughout the game is with latitude/longitude, eg unable to build deer trainer etc and now unable to build Svalbard and Kemi Castle ("redded out in my wonders tab), but I see there is a thread on this so I guess this is on me.
Another is automated workers seem buggy. I know we generally are "not supposed to" automate workers but there is a lot of tedium. In vanilla BTS I can automate and poof my roads are all efficiently converted to railroads...here it seemed to not reliably work to convert my infrastructure - even when I specifically click "build trade network". I wonder if automation is harder on the AI given so many worker choices.
I also was perplexed why satellites revealed the entire space map but read a post somewhere by Pepper just now that that happens.
However prior to that in the 1700s, which I tied to the Congress of Vienna wonder, I - but also all my enemies - were contacted by two new civilizations - The Green Man and Barbarian. (possibly relevant - I have checked option "Peace among NPC" because I read this speeds up turns). These civs are located on a second earth zone that is situated in a vertical layer beyond the Oort cloud after which there is a second lunar layer and what appears to be a second earth layer. Is the second earth intended to be populated by other civilizations? It seemed they were very behind and backward at first but are catching up to my enemies. Is this second earth designed to be a nice habitable extrasolar planet, and humanoid aliens, or is this a bug? I figured I would have virgin territory to conquer.
Additionally, my lunar rovers were greeted, on both moon layers (the one close to me and the transneptunian one), by true Barbarian State lunar cities - all size 1. I say "true" because these are not cities of the Barbarian civilization inhabiting second earth. Is this right? Even weirder, since I was just exploring I launched like 30 lunar rovers and one of them landed on the city square of one barbarian city and I was given the option to capture it. I took it, and I think because the game considers this an "earth" city, it can do nothing on the lunar square -- eg zero building options (I'll raze later).
(edit - btw there are barbarian stone throwers still on the city square, with the red enemy circle marking around them, and yet I still own the city)
Amazing game. To pass time between turns I also have a second game going on my desktop - a vertical space map game but I'm only early atomic there.
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Space is relatively new thing, so NPCs, barbarian (city) spawning, satellite map reveal and other stuff wasn't adjusted for possibility of map, where Earth is only part of map.
Vienna enabling contact with NPCs is serious bug.
Also things enabling contact with civs like Vienna are completely unaware of space content.
Since you are on V40.1 those issues are likely fixed on latest SVN, saves were broken at some point, so saves would be unusable here.
Second Earth can have other civs and barbarians - game doesn't realize, that space tiles are really space tiles.
For game space tiles are land tiles, map categories are just terrain grouping thing, that is used as prereq for units, buildings and few more stuff.
Space barbarians aren't a thing - there are no space buildings/units useable for barbarians, so they are absolutely stuck.
Cities are considered as Earth, Cislunar or other depending on mapcategories of tile, that city is settled on.
Vienna enabling contact with NPCs is serious bug.
Also things enabling contact with civs like Vienna are completely unaware of space content.
Since you are on V40.1 those issues are likely fixed on latest SVN, saves were broken at some point, so saves would be unusable here.
Second Earth can have other civs and barbarians - game doesn't realize, that space tiles are really space tiles.
For game space tiles are land tiles, map categories are just terrain grouping thing, that is used as prereq for units, buildings and few more stuff.
Space barbarians aren't a thing - there are no space buildings/units useable for barbarians, so they are absolutely stuck.
Cities are considered as Earth, Cislunar or other depending on mapcategories of tile, that city is settled on.
They can get a bit annoying later on. After producing a few stone throwers, suddenly they will start producing the "real" (in this case Martian) Infantry. If you play with terrain damage, they can get rather hard to attack at this point, because you don't have healing units there, and your own units out in the field usually lose 15 % per turn they are out of cities. On top of this, your own units will most likely not have a lot of promotions (including commando), so even if you build maglevs, they stop working for you once you reach the barbarians' tiles.
Civ4newbie
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2007
- Messages
- 226
Don't forget to add aliens in the game at some point during the future sci fi eras to function as new civilizations OR at least make that a mod mod option for cavemantocosmos. They don't all have to be humanoid or look humanish. I suppose you could use alien civs from the starwars, startrek, moo2, alpha centuri, babalon 5 and the future mod from those civ 4mods to add into the future eras. Also maybe using galactic civs from the galactic civilizations series. In the future mod there is a actual 3d moving green alien leader pic and sci fi futuristic civilizations which might also useful to add into C2C
CreativeCaprine
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2016
- Messages
- 39
I am so stoked for Caveman2cosmos having an alien invasion possibility. The stories and RP I could make out of it!
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It will. Eventually. A few interesting things are in the works, including this.
Nope, I even did experimental branch, where I allowed building cislunar settlers on Earth.
AI didn't want to settle them in space.
I guess AI treats zero yield terrain as completely worthless not realizing it can place improvements here.
Its still here for @MattCA if he wants to make Space AI.
You don't put resources on Cislunar zone.
New AI is needed.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
I played through it and I found at the time I was able to construced advanced Seeships, my research was behaving very strangely. I selected a Tech, and it said 5 turns. It took 5 turns. But when I researched it, it also researched all the techs up to and including the tech I selected in the tree to beeline to. Then I selected the next tech; the bar was completely full and it took 1 turn. The next tech took 5 turns again, but on research, I got the 5-10 selected techs all at once.
A different topic:
While playing, I noticed that in the late TH era, the earth has not much more to do. Also, some mega projects like Ecumenopolis or Orbital Ring don't really fit the be build by just one random city. When multimaps are introduced, I'd think it makes sense that your earth map will be transformed into one "city" once you build the Ecumenopolis. After all, you start colonizing other star systems and deal with whole planet system at once. It doesn't make sense that you still have to decide if you want to build a windmill or a Mine on that one random hill on earth. This would also remove tedious micro and allows you to focus more on the grand scale of things, the new and exiting era of space colonization!
It would also allow for sorta easier balancing, and less memory use; instead of calculating and adjusting science, properties and units for 50+ earth cities, you also need to have one city to deal with.
What stats should this Ultra-city have? Simply the sum of previous cities? A certain value, based on the buildings that were present? Present in every city? One city? 50% of the cities? What buildings are relevant? Only a small hand full, like, the most modern buildings? Will all buildings be erazed and only new, Ecumenopolis-buildings are allowed to be build?
What happens to units? They would mostly be deleted I guess. After all, Tanks or Mech Robots are not useful, if all your surroundings is space.
Should the city have tiles around it that can be improved? Or should it be a single tile?
What happens with possible rivals? Can you only build the Ecumenopolis, if you own 90% of all cities? Can we create UN resolutions that establishes a World Government, i.E. give your civ all remaining cities on the planet?
What late game challanges should you have then?
A possibility would be a guaranteed "Independence of Mars" Event, that would make it a rival civilization. You can have Rogue Cis-Lunar or Deep Space colonies (especially if we get Revolutions working). There could also be aliens once you go galactic. Personally, I think it is extremely unlikely, that you would meet an alien civ, that would be even close to your current technology level, but since it is canon that Civ is just a simulation, I could life with it. #
Another step up could be the construction of the solar dyson sphere, which could compress all your "cities" in the solar system (including deep space colonies) to just one dyson sphere amongs all your galactic colonies.
A different topic:
While playing, I noticed that in the late TH era, the earth has not much more to do. Also, some mega projects like Ecumenopolis or Orbital Ring don't really fit the be build by just one random city. When multimaps are introduced, I'd think it makes sense that your earth map will be transformed into one "city" once you build the Ecumenopolis. After all, you start colonizing other star systems and deal with whole planet system at once. It doesn't make sense that you still have to decide if you want to build a windmill or a Mine on that one random hill on earth. This would also remove tedious micro and allows you to focus more on the grand scale of things, the new and exiting era of space colonization!
It would also allow for sorta easier balancing, and less memory use; instead of calculating and adjusting science, properties and units for 50+ earth cities, you also need to have one city to deal with.
What stats should this Ultra-city have? Simply the sum of previous cities? A certain value, based on the buildings that were present? Present in every city? One city? 50% of the cities? What buildings are relevant? Only a small hand full, like, the most modern buildings? Will all buildings be erazed and only new, Ecumenopolis-buildings are allowed to be build?
What happens to units? They would mostly be deleted I guess. After all, Tanks or Mech Robots are not useful, if all your surroundings is space.
Should the city have tiles around it that can be improved? Or should it be a single tile?
What happens with possible rivals? Can you only build the Ecumenopolis, if you own 90% of all cities? Can we create UN resolutions that establishes a World Government, i.E. give your civ all remaining cities on the planet?
What late game challanges should you have then?
A possibility would be a guaranteed "Independence of Mars" Event, that would make it a rival civilization. You can have Rogue Cis-Lunar or Deep Space colonies (especially if we get Revolutions working). There could also be aliens once you go galactic. Personally, I think it is extremely unlikely, that you would meet an alien civ, that would be even close to your current technology level, but since it is canon that Civ is just a simulation, I could life with it. #
Another step up could be the construction of the solar dyson sphere, which could compress all your "cities" in the solar system (including deep space colonies) to just one dyson sphere amongs all your galactic colonies.
