A guide to Space and the Future

[Thunderbrd]

When multimaps are introduced, I'd think it makes sense that your earth map will be transformed into one "city" once you build the Ecumenopolis.

Doing this also reduces the strategic layers and writes entire unit lines out of perspective in the game further so it is not the plan at all. However, it IS somewhat the plan that after you get a stage or two out from the home planet, like into galactic, that most communities will be represented in this way. There will still be a few other special places of importance that get down to this degree of specificity, but most won't. You might have a home planet of another important species or two that might, a special hunting planet or two and so on.

Aside from maintaining the nurturing of the garden of cities you began with from the beginning as something you do all the way through the entire tech tree so as to show the ground level experience at every stage, another thing it will do by being a more detailed example of what a zone can produce as a whole is give us a sense of comparison for what the mega cities such as planetary, solar system, and galactic analogous colonies should have as far as yield and commerce and resource outputs as a rule.

 

[raxo2222]

I played through it and I found at the time I was able to construced advanced Seeships, my research was behaving very strangely. I selected a Tech, and it said 5 turns. It took 5 turns. But when I researched it, it also researched all the techs up to and including the tech I selected in the tree to beeline to. Then I selected the next tech; the bar was completely full and it took 1 turn. The next tech took 5 turns again, but on research, I got the 5-10 selected techs all at once.

Are you using V40.1, or latest SVN?

It seems like there is tech queue overflow.

 

[Faustmouse]

[QUOTE="Thunderbrd, post: 15936942], another thing it will do by being a more detailed example of what a zone can produce as a whole is give us a sense of comparison for what the mega cities such as planetary, solar system, and galactic analogous colonies should have as far as yield and commerce and resource outputs as a rule.[/QUOTE]

Then the matrioska brain should give many orders of magnitude more science than a science building earth, making the latter useless. Also a single Dyson sphere would outproduce military capabilities many times over even all combined cities on earth.

These scales are just not comparable.

I don't know what version exactly, I updated the game last time around 4. August

 

[Trantor]

that will be almost trying to merge 2 games

game 1 : earth with cities
game 2: space with planets where individual cities do not matter. land units do not matter

 

[raxo2222]

You can make recreate billions or even quintillions of Earths at certain stage of game too...

 

[Thunderbrd]

These scales are just not comparable.

Nevertheless, the game will never lose sight of its root - the human level of experience, which will make all those later eras actually feel relative and like they matter. What will the surface of the Earth, the home planet where humanity came from, look like then? That will be the more important detail than anything else we can express.

 

[raxo2222]

Nevertheless, the game will never lose sight of its root - the human level of experience, which will make all those later eras actually feel relative and like they matter. What will the surface of the Earth, the home planet where humanity came from, look like then? That will be the more important detail than anything else we can express.

Septillion identical copies of Earth from any time period, and original is still of extra value for Transcendent civ?
Maybe OG Earth, should be replaced with OG Solar system, then with OG Galaxy, then with OG Universe....

 

[Thunderbrd]

Septillion identical copies of Earth from any time period, and original is still of extra value for Transcendent civ?
Maybe OG Earth, should be replaced with OG Solar system, then with OG Galaxy, then with OG Universe....

Imo, we might be going a bit too far with the latest eras - but even if that's the case, and we can and do create infinite Earths, the original is all that REALLY matters anyhow.

I don't want to ever have the game lose sight of where it all begins and what it's like for those who would only ever experience an existence in this frame of reference.

If a modern human were to time travel to x time, I want them to see what they would see here.

 

[raxo2222]

Imo, we might be going a bit too far with the latest eras - but even if that's the case, and we can and do create infinite Earths, the original is all that REALLY matters anyhow.

I don't want to ever have the game lose sight of where it all begins and what it's like for those who would only ever experience an existence in this frame of reference.

If a modern human were to time travel to x time, I want them to see what they would see here.

I guess our Solar System/galaxy/universe becomes extension of eternal and infinite Earth
I think its some form of cosmic patriotism

 

[Thunderbrd]

I guess our Solar System/galaxy/universe becomes extension of eternal and infinite Earth
I think its some form of cosmic patriotism

Something like that. I just don't want to ever let go of what its like on the basic experiential level of the place where it all begins and the example of all the stages from there no matter how big the whole thing gets in the end.

 

[dmd175]

As the name suggests, in the Galactic Era you move beyond the Solar System and colonize the Milky Way Galaxy.

The key opening tech is Interstellar Travel, which gives you access to the first seedship, the Worldship. Aside from Interstellar Probes of the Transhuman Era, this is your first foray outside the Solar System. This can only be built in a deep space colony, and only if you have a spacecraft factory. This should be no problem if you got your solar system colonization done early.

Initially, you can only move to Transtellar Space (the space between star systems) and to nearby stars: Red Dwarfs, Sun-Like stars, and Red Giants. These are where you want to build your initial cities. Because of the way map categories work, you want to build your first interstellar cities DIRECTLY ON stars; adjacent to stars will not give you the benefit of their Plasma map category, which you need to build most of the key interstellar buildings. There are some interesting buildings you can get around the Oort Cloud and Rogue Planets, but they are of minor importance in comparison.

I just finished a game by conquest on Tiny Alternate System (Immortal, normal speed) after I reached the early galactic era. It was awesome to have completely colonized the Moon, Venus, and Mars, and have mostly colonized Asteroid Belt, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and to be starting on Oort/KBO and Mercury.

This guide in the first pages of this thread is invaluable. However it was tricky to figure out what ship should colonize what:
-asteroids: I can colonize asteroids on the side of Venus nearer the earth, but not on the side of Venus nearer the sun (as both tiles are inner solar system).
-I built a worldship near Venus and it cannot cross the earth so I had to delete it
-then I build worldships in outer solar system gas giants; these are also stuck because they cannot cross moon #2. That seems crazy that these ships cannot cross all terrains. I thought the Worldship would allow me to the interstellar and galactic squares beyond earth #2. Maybe I'm not far enough in the tech tree and there are other needed techs.
-somehow pre-galactic my deep space settlers were allowed to get to moon #2 and earth #2...?
-interstellar probe really doesn't do anything, since it cannot cross moon #2
(btw moon and mars still filling up with barbarian cities)

At this date I can still build cislunar, planetary, deep space settlers and wondering if it would be more parsimonious if each next settler just obsoleted the priors and gained all the capabilities. I'm still confused why I can't settle in some places (Venusian asteroids).


(also interesting, not sure if intended, but I can airlift units from earth to earth #2)

 

[dmd175]

The key opening tech is Interstellar Travel, which gives you access to the first seedship, the Worldship. Aside from Interstellar Probes of the Transhuman Era, this is your first foray outside the Solar System. This can only be built in a deep space colony, and only if you have a spacecraft factory. This should be no problem if you got your solar system colonization done early.

Initially, you can only move to Transtellar Space (the space between star systems) and to nearby stars: Red Dwarfs, Sun-Like stars, and Red Giants. These are where you want to build your initial cities. Because of the way map categories work, you want to build your first interstellar cities DIRECTLY ON stars; adjacent to stars will not give you the benefit of their Plasma map category, which you need to build most of the key interstellar buildings. There are some interesting buildings you can get around the Oort Cloud and Rogue Planets, but they are of minor importance in comparison.

I need some help on getting to the the nearby stars:
-I am 2/3 the way through galactic and 16 techs past interstellar colonization
-Worldships are stuck at transtellar space: per pedia these can only exist on 1) solar system plot, 2) plasma plot, 3) interstellar plot, 4) cislunar plot. Mine are stuck in the post-Oort layer of transstellar space. I cannot figure out how to have them traverse "moon 2" then "earth 2" to get to the galaxy/plasma plots. All I get is the red circle that I cannot move over these areas and bring the ships to the stars.

The next key technology in interstellar colonization is ... Interstellar Colonization. This allows the Planetary Landing building, which marks the seedship reaching its destination and becoming a true interstellar colony. ...
The Advanced Seedships tech allow the Advanced Seedship unit, which I think of as a genetic seedship rather than a worldship. This allows you to move beyond near interstellar space and into the Orion Arm. There, all cities have Plasma map category

Because of troubles with above I played onto and past interstellar colonization, figuring that maybe the worldship only colonized that post-Oort cloud layer of galactic/interstellar space.

But a genetic seedship cannot be built in the solar system. Requirements are advanced seedships tech (which I have) and interstellar starport, which requires either building:
-Milky Way colony: this requires Milky Way plot; or
-interstellar metropolis: this requires interplanetary landing, which can only exist in a plasma plot (I have the solar economy NW)
So it's clear genetic seedships can only be built outside of the solar system, but that means that getting the Worldship to the galaxy is the part that I have messed up. Appreciate any help or is there some bug?

Spoiler space resources still confused :

I still cannot connect helium, carbon dioxide, martian blueberries, asteroid resources, etc - they are listed as missing per F4 resource tab. I have settled on several and all have appropriate improvement. I have connected all of them as well, and I have "roaded" the entire solar system map - except for the first layer of impassable "orbit" which I do not think has a road equivalent. Is this the problem? Clearly I'm missing something here and very much appreciate help.

Spoiler WB test :

I just put "road" in the impassable orbit and the resources now appear in my capital and not shown as missing in F4 resource menu.

 

[Faustmouse]

- but even if that's the case, and we can and do create infinite Earths, the original is all that REALLY matters anyhow

Interesting, why do you think it will be? We are talking millions or billions of years in the future. Have you, as American, special feelings about Europe as a place where you originated from? Or, more distant, Africa? What about (possibly) black smokers on the bottom of the ocean? It's so far back, we don't even know anymore.
If we stick to a certain region in Africa, the region where all modern humans started, how many people are curious how it looks nowadays, let alone travel there?

For all we know, humans might retreat from earth, restoring everything to a giant wild park and only life in orbit. Or dismantle earth completely to form much more habitable surface area in the form of o Neil cylinders.

Just an idea I found worth discussing. You still have a city representing earth in game though.

 

[raxo2222]

I need some help on getting to the the nearby stars:
-I am 2/3 the way through galactic and 16 techs past interstellar colonization
-Worldships are stuck at transtellar space: per pedia these can only exist on 1) solar system plot, 2) plasma plot, 3) interstellar plot, 4) cislunar plot. Mine are stuck in the post-Oort layer of transstellar space. I cannot figure out how to have them traverse "moon 2" then "earth 2" to get to the galaxy/plasma plots. All I get is the red circle that I cannot move over these areas and bring the ships to the stars.




Because of troubles with above I played onto and past interstellar colonization, figuring that maybe the worldship only colonized that post-Oort cloud layer of galactic/interstellar space.

But a genetic seedship cannot be built in the solar system. Requirements are advanced seedships tech (which I have) and interstellar starport, which requires either building:
-Milky Way colony: this requires Milky Way plot; or
-interstellar metropolis: this requires interplanetary landing, which can only exist in a plasma plot (I have the solar economy NW)
So it's clear genetic seedships can only be built outside of the solar system, but that means that getting the Worldship to the galaxy is the part that I have messed up. Appreciate any help or is there some bug?

Spoiler space resources still confused :

I still cannot connect helium, carbon dioxide, martian blueberries, asteroid resources, etc - they are listed as missing per F4 resource tab. I have settled on several and all have appropriate improvement. I have connected all of them as well, and I have "roaded" the entire solar system map - except for the first layer of impassable "orbit" which I do not think has a road equivalent. Is this the problem? Clearly I'm missing something here and very much appreciate help.

Spoiler WB test :

I just put "road" in the impassable orbit and the resources now appear in my capital and not shown as missing in F4 resource menu.

All space maps with second Earth are broken.
Make void tunnel trough second earth.

As for space resources: Earth and space colonies are two separate trade networks until you get Solar Workers - they can place route on orbit connecting Earth with rest of space colonies.

Interesting, why do you think it will be? We are talking millions or billions of years in the future. Have you, as American, special feelings about Europe as a place where you originated from? Or, more distant, Africa? What about (possibly) black smokers on the bottom of the ocean? It's so far back, we don't even know anymore.
If we stick to a certain region in Africa, the region where all modern humans started, how many people are curious how it looks nowadays, let alone travel there?

For all we know, humans might retreat from earth, restoring everything to a giant wild park and only life in orbit. Or dismantle earth completely to form much more habitable surface area in the form of o Neil cylinders.

Just an idea I found worth discussing. You still have a city representing earth in game though.

Or a little asteroid mining "accident".
Like 50km sized rock crashing on Earth.
A lot of things could happen to Earth.

Random planets can be more productive than Earth.

 

[dmd175]

As for space resources: Earth and space colonies are two separate trade networks until you get Solar Workers - they can place route on orbit connecting Earth with rest of space colonies..

I thought as much that they are separate networks and no harbor or airport equivalent to bridge them. The WB test above proved what you said.

However on my map there is an impassable orbit layer that solar worker cannot enter

I’ll WB a channel above and connections from space to earth. This game is so awesome- just trying to learn and help w my comments. But I learned that AI won’t colonize space so my next map will be an earth one. Someday I look forward to fighting AI at each level of space!

 

[Thunderbrd]

Interesting, why do you think it will be? We are talking millions or billions of years in the future. Have you, as American, special feelings about Europe as a place where you originated from? Or, more distant, Africa? What about (possibly) black smokers on the bottom of the ocean? It's so far back, we don't even know anymore

I'm not saying that's how anyone will 'feel'. I'm saying that from the player perspective, I don't ever want to lose any layers. If it were me, we'd go as far into this galactic future as we could go with every single planet having its own map and no further, just so that we can maintain that on the ground tactical feeling for every single location. If you remember the old FASA game, Battlemech and all its supporting products, that's the feel I want for the later game. But since we want to go farther than just the solar system and a limited selection of populable solar system(s) out in the galaxy, as was originally intended, we'll have to do something to average it down for most locations at some point. I still don't ever want to have to write some kind of code that bleeds out the exact details of what you as a player have done, building your cities, etc, into something of a conglomerate mess that no longer cares about those smaller details.

You're also assuming that this will be possible - that by a particular point in the game, there WILL be a unified singular government on Earth that will allow Earth to be conglomerized into some kind of averaged out singular city with one owner.

 

[raxo2222]

I thought as much that they are separate networks and no harbor or airport equivalent to bridge them. The WB test above proved what you said.

However on my map there is an impassable orbit layer that solar worker cannot enter

I’ll WB a channel above and connections from space to earth. This game is so awesome- just trying to learn and help w my comments. But I learned that AI won’t colonize space so my next map will be an earth one. Someday I look forward to fighting AI at each level of space!

Solar Workers (or other one placing Orbital Trajectory) ability to build space road on Orbit was added in SVN then.

AI being able to colonize space won't be here for couple of years at least - whole new AI for space would have to be added.

I'm not saying that's how anyone will 'feel'. I'm saying that from the player perspective, I don't ever want to lose any layers. If it were me, we'd go as far into this galactic future as we could go with every single planet having its own map and no further, just so that we can maintain that on the ground tactical feeling for every single location. If you remember the old FASA game, Battlemech and all its supporting products, that's the feel I want for the later game. But since we want to go farther than just the solar system and a limited selection of populable solar system(s) out in the galaxy, as was originally intended, we'll have to do something to average it down for most locations at some point. I still don't ever want to have to write some kind of code that bleeds out the exact details of what you as a player have done, building your cities, etc, into something of a conglomerate mess that no longer cares about those smaller details.

You're also assuming that this will be possible - that by a particular point in the game, there WILL be a unified singular government on Earth that will allow Earth to be conglomerized into some kind of averaged out singular city with one owner.

I wouldn't be surprised if removing Earth altogether at some point in Galactic or Cosmic halved RAM usage.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I wouldn't be surprised if removing Earth altogether at some point in Galactic or Cosmic halved RAM usage.

MAYBE it would be something we'd do past galactic level perhaps, start amalgamating. Of course, we still have to then say that you MUST have only one player owning the entire globe at that time to be able to progress past that point. Then if needed further, the entire solar system, and so on. Possibly limit tech development of a particular 'lifestyle' tech until something of a given map level conquest victory takes place.

 

[raxo2222]

MAYBE it would be something we'd do past galactic level perhaps, start amalgamating. Of course, we still have to then say that you MUST have only one player owning the entire globe at that time to be able to progress past that point. Then if needed further, the entire solar system, and so on. Possibly limit tech development of a particular 'lifestyle' tech until something of a given map level conquest victory takes place.

There is multiple intermediate steps between lifestyle techs.
I even made colonization timeline.

Spoiler Colonization Milestones :

===ATOMIC===
X080 - Advanced Rocketry - Founding of NASA
X081 - Satellites - First satellite launched
X085 - Space Stations - Space Station LVL 1 improvement (Orbit terrain)

===INFORMATION===
X091 - Space Tourism - Space Station LVL 2 improvement (Orbit terrain)
X094 - Lunar Bases - Lunar Outpost improvement (Lunar cities are founded on it)
X096 - Asteroid Mining - Space Station LVL 3 improvement (Orbit terrain), Heavy Rockets can be upgraded to Cislunar/Lunar/Planetary Settlers

===NANOTECH===
X100 - Advanced Environmental Systems - Cislunar colonies
X101 - Lunar Colonization - Lunar colonies
X102 - Planetary Colonization - Martian/Venusian colonies

===TRANSHUMAN===
X111 - Deep Space Colonies - Solar System colonies (except Titan/beyond Pluto)
X114 - Astrogation Constellation - Earth can freely trade with space colonies (route can be placed on Orbit)
X115 - Abyss Colonization - Titan colonies
X121 - Solar Ordnance - Transneptunian colonies

===GALACTIC===
X124 - Interstellar Travel - Flight to nearby stars
X129 - Interstellar Colonization - Nearby Stars colonies.
X132 - Advanced Seedships - Orion Arm colonies
X134 - Transtangible Neutrino Accelerators - Milky Way colonies

===COSMIC===
X138 - Space Creasing - Local Group colonies
X141 - Intergroup Travel - Virgo Supercluster colonies
X145 - Intercluster Travel - Universe colonies

===TRANSCEDENT===
X149 - Horizon Breaking - Unobservable Universe colonies (part of same universe)
X149 - Dualflux Quantum Temporal Rift - Hyperspace colonies, can create Hyperspace terrain
X149 - String Manipulation - can create Branespace terrain
X152 - Time Reversal - can create Distant Past/Future terrains
X154 - Multiverse Traversal - latest space unit (multiverse reward), represents colonizing separate universes
X156 - Manifold Colonization - colonizing structures beyond dimensions
X158 - Macroverse Traversal - colonizing multimultiverses
X160 - Simulation Analysis - colonizing of whatever is outside of simulation

You should be able to make NWO before Galactic era.
Maybe it would be like this:
You can force your civics on other civs using UN.
After all civics are synced you can assimilate other civs.
Yes, you can make totalitarian communist civilization.
You could make totalitarian corporate inquisitorial crusader state too.
Or something with tame civics.

For Galactic era are we going to play Stellaris with roughly equal tech level galactic civilizations?

 

[Thunderbrd]

You should be able to make NWO before Galactic era.

I'm hoping we can make that very difficult actually so that we have strong intergalactic conflicts at space and planetary levels. Perhaps you conquered all of the dry land but the underwater cities still belong to others? Hoping introducing other species can get into surface level conflicts with them on other planets as well.

Obviously, yes, UN as well as conquest is another way to unify into a global governance.

Also for a long time I'd like to be seeing terraforming efforts at the plot level of planets.