A Mafia Game taking place in the East [Game Thread - Concluded]

[Newyn]

I'm just bored while waiting for my followers to come back on WoW.
I get lynched for it I get lynched but going to at least entertain myself while doing so.

 

[Zack]

I'm going to come out and say it before johnhughthom does: you're acting like a bad parody of me.

Actually, wait. I can't vote for myself. That would justify everything I've whined against. Unvote, Vote: Count Dingdong

 

[Newyn]

Unvote. Vote Zack

There, now you can justify voting for me in self defense.

 

[Newyn]

For the record, I'm perfectly capable of pulling stunts like this regardless of my alignment. Just ask Pizza or the invaders from Gitp.
Sanity has never been my strong point

 

[Newyn]

Guess noone else wants to play, back to WoW I guess.

Unvote: Vote Count Dingdong

 

[Zack]

but seriously Unvote, Vote: Newyn

Neglecting mafia for a silly game! Pah, nerd!

 

[Sprig]

I would but alas! *Ghost

 

[spaceman98]

Zack defending Kennigit:

Coincidentally Kennigit is my other mafia partner, so I won't join that bandwagon either.


Man, what's up with you making negative, sweeping generalizations about CFC lately? That's not true at all.

I like playing with BSmith and Kennigit, and they're really good townies, so I'd rather not lynch them so early for no reason (also they're my mafia partners). And while statistically a day 1 lynch is better than no lynch, I don't like ending someone's participation in the game before it really even starts -- as someone who has had streaks of being nightkilled early in several consecutive games, I know how frustrating and disappointing it can be to die so early.

More importantly, they're my mafia partners.

Day 2:

Nah, I would've gladly lynched BSmith or Kennigit if I were scum.

Ok. I admit its not quite the same thing as his current pro-choxorn stance, since it was mostly day 1, and he started pushing for a kennigit lynch above a chox lynch very early

No it doesn't. If choxorn is town, it reveals absolutely nothing about Kennigit. If you're going to use that (flawed) argument, then lynching Kennigit is strictly better than lynching choxorn.

I'll stick to Newyn then, and give choxorn a pass again (this is becoming a trend isn't it), but I have my eye on both of you.

And I would agree if not for private interactions I've had with him.

After all, Mafia are the ones having the most private interactions....

 

[JohannaK]

I suspect Zack was targeted by a Ninja. In the previous game I could either kill or roleblock, so that could be why the write-up was somewhat unclear. That and the death by kunai are strongly pointing to the existance of ninjas on top of yakuza and mafiya.

 

[Caelian]

Yep, I have no reason to believe Count is town, but I have plenty of reason to believe choxorn is town. As I've already explained numerous times.

Ok, I'm going to go back and look at all your posts...

Spoiler :

And before someone complains about this, yes there are more Zack posts that I didn't add to the multiquote, but this should be all the ones that give arguments against lynching choxorn

You know what I meant, you're just debating semantics. My point was that mafia want to avoid being prominently associated with townie lynches.


Oh, and switching your vote off a teammate in that situation doesn't attract any attention at all? Assuming choxorn and Kennigit are mafia partners, choxorn knows that if he switches his vote like that and Kennigit later turns up as scum, that Day 1 vote switch is going to look really bad; on the other hand, if choxorn is scum and Kennigit is not his teammate, he probably doesn't even think too much about the consequences of changing his vote.

I've been in that situation as a member of a mafia team, and I did not change my vote because I knew the consequences would be severe. I'm speaking from firsthand experience here.

If choxorn and Kennigit are mafia partners, choxorn made an uncharacteristically poor play for someone who is usually fairly ruthless in bussing his scummates. If they're not mafia partners, then his vote switch is trivial and not really worth considering.


Then what are you assuming?


Because there's an implication here that there is one mafia team and the town. What if Kennigit/choxorn is a serial killer, what if he's on an opposing scum team, what if he's a cultist, what if he's neutral, etc. None of these are considered, only that Kennigit and choxorn are either both mafia buddies or both townies.

Because you're assuming that if one is mafia, then the other must not only be mafia, but be on the same mafia team, ignoring that they could theoretically be on different mafia teams.

In any case, if they ARE scum teammates, it's uncharacteristic for choxorn to act in such a way. He is a notoriously prolific busser. The whole case relies on choxorn being dumb/sloppy.

I'm not sure what you mean, exactly. If you assume him and Kennigit are teammates, it doesn't make much sense, but in any other context it's fine. What don't you "like" about it, that it conflicts with your vote?

In any case, choxorn is a bad lynch, for reasons both in-thread and in private. I'm not crazy about lynching Kennigit or BSmith either, but it's better than chox at least. I could get behind a remake lynch, but there's barely three hours left in the day and he doesn't have enough votes.

I have already explained in-thread why choxorn is a worse lynch than Kennigit, plus there are additional reasons in private legitimizing choxorn's innocence. I am not crazy about lynching Kennigit, but he is absolutely the better choice here.

And I certainly gave reasons beyond "well i like choxorn i guess," which is what you basically said.

I already explained this. choxorn is a ruthless busser when he's mafia. If him and Kennigit are mafia buddies (doubtful), then the vote change is inconsistent with his playstyle. And as others have already mentioned, we should stop pretending that choxorn single-handedly saved Kennigit's life. There were plenty of other people who could have sealed Kennigit's death, including me (and choxorn's reason for "saving" Kennigit is the EXACT same as my given reason for not voting for him or BSmith, so why rag on him for it and not rag on me?).

And townies do head-scratching things all the damn time, probably moreso than mafia do. Let's stop pretending that townies are smart and mafia are dumb, because it's blatantly false.

And for private reasons I've already alluded to (the details don't need to be publicized), other than myself choxorn is the one person I'm most confident is town.


Again, I already addressed this in literally the very next post.


What about letting me "off the hook" for refusing to lynch Kennigit or BSmith? Or letting all the other people "off the hook" who chose not to vote for one of those two? And letting him off the hook for what, not lynching someone who is (probably) a townie? The case against choxorn is very weak.

Count Dingdong tried to push choxorn ahead of Kennigit at a pivotal moment in the Day yesterday.

And yeah, I'm still confident that choxorn is town. Either that or he has a weird and borderline useless ability for a mafioso AND he made an uncharacteristic play.

Also, I was roleblocked last night (I think... the wording was kind of strange, though).

Also note that Double A was voting for choxorn over kenny.

Not to mention choxorn did the opposite of save Kennigit yesterday.*

*yeah yeah I know it's not as meaningful because it was either him or kennigit, but still - they voted for each other

So your reasons for thinking choxorn is town are:

private reasons

Meaningless to anyone who isn't you. You may very well have a very good reason not to vote for him based on your private interaction. But as long as you are (quite reasonably) keeping the details of that interaction secret it can't give anyone else any good reason not to vote for choxorn.

choxorn is usually a ruthless busser and so would have bussed here

If that is true (and it doesn't look like anyone is disputing it), and if everybody knows that it is true, then couldn't it make sense for him to intentionally do something different? Your argument implies that it is impossible (or prohibitively unlikely) that a mafia choxorn thinks "hey, everyone knows I buss hard when I am mafia. Maybe I should throw people off my trail by not doing it now." Basically you are arguing that he is completely and laughably predictable. What is that thing you said: "let's stop pretending that townies are smart and mafia are dumb"

choxorn "did the opposite of save Kennigit yesterday"

So much for choxorn is a ruthless busser so can't be mafia because he didn't buss Kennigit, huh?


Basically, your argument is that choxorn did something different than he normally would as mafia so he can't be mafia. Then he did it later and that is further proof that he isn't mafia. And you totally have more reasons in secret that he isn't mafia.

 

[Snerk]

Choxorn to hang.

 

[Murska]

Well, that went surprisingly okay.

For a second target, Kingmorgan, Legato Endless and Riedquat posted off-wagon with no real attempt to push it. Of these, according to post #206, Kingmorgan has never pointed at a known wolf. (Or anyone else than BSmith, at any rate)

Kingmorgan.

 

[Murska]

Oh, but Newyn reads really false, and deserves to be pressured. I might switch later, if nobody else picks up on this thread.

 

[edse]

No point in lynching Newyn really, the Russians will kill him for being a yakuzzi and vice versa.

I'm going to check the day one BSmith wagon, brb.

 

[edse]

Awww

I doubt whether to change my vote to BSmith or to Kennigit. Hmm, I'll decide tomorrow.

I choose you, JohannaK!

 

[Newyn]

Unvote. Vote: Newyn
There's your pressure Murska, I never bother with analysis based on 2 lynches when other people can do it instead.
Lynch me if you want, I don't care if you havn't already noticed

 

[Newyn]

Also, FC here for the playgrounders that somehow havn't figured it out yet. You guys know this is the exact sort of shennanigans I pull all the time as wolf so don't let the CFCers be the only ones to be lynching me. I'm beginning to think they know me better that you guys

 

[Legato Endless]

Also, FC here for the playgrounders that somehow havn't figured it out yet. You guys know this is the exact sort of shennanigans I pull all the time as wolf so don't let the CFCers be the only ones to be lynching me. I'm beginning to think they know me better that you guys

It was a secret? You posted your location on the forum. As you're the only mafia player in Australia, I'm not sure why this would be a mystery.

I'm pretty hesitant to accommodate you're request. Are you really bored, or is this a trick? At least when another guy yesterday started claiming to be scum, I already had a good idea what was going on before hand.

 

[Riedquat]

Also, FC here for the playgrounders that somehow havn't figured it out yet. You guys know this is the exact sort of shennanigans I pull all the time as wolf so don't let the CFCers be the only ones to be lynching me. I'm beginning to think they know me better that you guys

I wonder what drugs are you on, and I'm a bit concerned perhaps you have an special ability like the one I had in the previous game and never got to use it... a sort of immunity to get lynched under certain conditions...

Anyway, you aren't acting like any other game we played together as town or scum...

 

[Legato Endless]

Let's go with Vote: johnhughthom for now.