A New Dawn Beta Builds

Hi

Just wondering what the changes are from AND 1.74 beta 5 to Beta 6.

Go back a few pages. I posted a changelog.
Also, im sure your probably sick of hearing things like this. But im finding the amount of gold i can bring in is still way to high. I am playing on huge earth map on snail and I am currently in the medieval era just discovered astronomy. I have 13 cities and my vassals are spain, germany, russia, persia and mali. I am playng as england. I am at 100% research and have quite a large army and my navy force is very big, should be costing me a fortune. Plus 4 of my cities are where mongolia once stood and i am still getting 150 to 200 extra currency per turn! My tre4asury is currently holding over 15000.

First off, If you aren't playing with Better RoM and the Building Upgrade Chains, there is no guarantee you are playing a balanced game.
Also, I have noticed a huge reduction in the amount of revolts occuring in my game. I have had none at all and it has been only a few times where a message telling me that an AI's chance of revolting has increased because they refused rebel terms, indicating that rev is on and working but seems to be more relaxed. Were there any changes made to revolutions?

This was because Revolution's scaling with difficulty was disabled due to some code changes in RevDCM. I've re-added it, and you should see more revolts.

However, Marathon and Epic seem broken. They've had their number of turns adjusted up and also gotten a new layout for the interval increments.
Marathon's gone up from 1590 to 1875 turns. But with the current increment layout, Marathon games finish in 3468! Also, the modifiers have not changed. I don't know if that's a balancing change because it was impossible to finish a game in 1590 turns previously.

Epic is much the same. Turns increased from 1050 to 1250 without modifier changes. But it's also off by a bit as the game is set to finish in 2281.

Epic's changed are intended, but thanks for the note about Marathon. I forgot to remove on section, a copy-n-paste error. I'll correct that, and the real end date is really close to epic's. The goal when I redesigned those was to scale the number of turns with the correct date, but in a formulaic manner, rather than the guesswork everyone has used before. If you look it how I set it up, I used strict formula's and a calculator, so each month period has the same number of turns as all the others. The end date is pretty trivial, as long as it is in the 2100-2300 ballpark. I wanted players to feel that turns lined up, and so far, it does much better than it previously did.


Bugs for Revision 213:
1. [ unresolved old bug ]. The city bar doesn't display the Religion icons except the religion which is in the holy city.
2. Once I command a worker to build a road ( after researched Monarch ) I can gain some money immdiately. ( The money should be spend, not gain. )

Edited:
3. The Drama technology is invisible in the big picture.

1.) Fix uploaded to SVN

2.) Fix Uploaded to SVN

3.) Fix Uploaded to SVN. :p

I've tried both, with the same result. There is still/new forest and no orchard.

Try the DLL on the OP.

Had this weird NO religious icon appear in Beta 6? Now to two cities:crazyeye: But as you can see in the pic's the religion is there.

Don't worry, It's been taken care of.

And to Afforess: I highly recommend you stop to add new modmods, and keep focus on debugging and balance adjusting. Then we will get a best Civ4 mod for collection before the release of Civ5.

What new modmods have I added? :rolleyes:
 
Why can't I attack paris?
 

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It might have a heavy gate. You can't attack until the defenses are below 25%.
 
Don't know why, but the Fish Market can't be built. If you build one of the required buildings, the text just removes that one from "Requires * or * or *". Just ignore if it's disabled by better rom or something that I'm not aware of.
 
I get a hanging game after this turn (mouse pointer turns into world and stays there, next turn never starts)

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology Arctic Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Civic Diplomacy} {Building Upgrades}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.74 Beta6

Install Directory:
C:\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization iv beyond the sword\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows
 

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that is a bitter thing i try to prevent. time scale between turns massively reduces over the ages to reflect that everything is becoming faster. while at the game start decades of years pass between two turns it's down to months in the 19th century. so no need to boost the game speed additionally. i want to keep it somewhat constant - so a snail game feels like snail in every age, even in the transhuman and research takes more then one turn!

i've put the population requirement up to 25 and set the tech requirement to social contract (although realistically it far too early for mega cities to occur) but therefore i added a national wonder like building with the same function that can be build in the capital earlier with easier requirement.

i suppose it won't work balanced... i've increased the additional maintenance to +50% but i fear even that won't help much.

IMHO, your logic here is slightly flawed. I understand why you'd want a snail game to feel like a snail game all the way through -- but as you pointed out, your games are usually long over before you get to the modern age. So if you're going to be balancing the game for things like the modern era, please, please, please play on a faster speed so you get there and can actually see what's going on. Otherwise you're trying to balance the rest of us on a speed your not playing, in an age you don't get to, for concerns you're not seeing first-hand.

I like the increase in game speed. Even if the turn is now a year, if I have a large city, factories, etc., I should be able to produce mech infantries in 1 turn. This has been a core design element in every version of Civilization I've ever played, and I don't think you're going to fix it with just buildings.

Let me give you an example why this will be a problem:
Lets say turn intervals are 1 year. A war breaks out. The enemy sends their mech. infantry into my territory. Base movement cost is 2, plus their using my roads with a promotion, so they can move 5-6 spaces in 1 turn (which makes sense that an advanced unit can move that quick). If, because you want things to feel on "snail" speed, you've changed production so that it takes me 2-3 turns to build a mech. infantry, the game is badly imbalanced. Why would it take 2-3 years to build a single unit, but enemy troops can move 6 squares in a year? Logically, it just doesn't make sense, and worse, it creates a frustrating game.

So that's what I mean about balancing the end game -- you have to look at everything (movement costs being a big one) to make things scale consistently.

If you really want things to feel snail the whole way, I would recommend the following:
- Create a new modmodmod that is different than the building upgrades (e.g., "Consistent Speed Mod"
- There should be significantly less increases to movement speed over time (a warrior moves 1 space every 20 years, the time interval changes to 5 years, they should only get 1/4 movement; so a new unit with 2 movement points should only get to move 1/2 a space, and so on)
- Dramatically increase all research costs to scale with the changes in the game interval (so if I could research Drama in 1 turn at 20 year interval, then it should take me 4 turns if it's later in the game and the interval is now 5 years)
- Change scaling of hammers / food / culture / commerce /etc. so that if 1 turn is 20 years and it produced 20 hammers, then if nothing changes, and the interval is now 5 years, they only produce 4 hammers (I'm sure you get my drift).

The benefits then, of building upgrades, farms, etc., isn't to "increase production capability" as much as it is to keep up with the game's scaling.

This would be a major undertaking (obviously). But please, please, please don't try to fix this issue with building upgrades. Just my $0.02, thx!
 
I will say, a problem that RoM slightly carries over from real civ is that the slower the game speed, the more difficult it is to build defenders during a war, because movement speeds don't scale down. It's actually part of why I refuse to play faster than Marathon, because above that it seems like units move so slowly in balance to research and production speeds that they are obsolete by the time they get to my enemy's doorstep. So I guess its not really a problem so much as it is a asterisk and note.
 
Epic's changed are intended, but thanks for the note about Marathon. I forgot to remove on section, a copy-n-paste error. I'll correct that, and the real end date is really close to epic's. The goal when I redesigned those was to scale the number of turns with the correct date, but in a formulaic manner, rather than the guesswork everyone has used before. If you look it how I set it up, I used strict formula's and a calculator, so each month period has the same number of turns as all the others. The end date is pretty trivial, as long as it is in the 2100-2300 ballpark. I wanted players to feel that turns lined up, and so far, it does much better than it previously did.

I had a look in the trunk, it seems you removed the first section. That puts the game at an end date of 1593. The only full section you can remove to hit the ballpark number is the section with increments of 120 months, which will land you in 2218 when the game finishes.
 
You said in Stop the Presses thread that this version will be your final version for new modmod additions. What about old leftover codes from Elections, Dark Ages, and whatever else that you abandoned for one reason or another. Will you clean AND_GlobalDefines.xml, the source codes and whatever else of these or will you leave them alone? Reason I ask is if you clean them up, that would make for less cluttered code. And you can always make a small basic txt file describing your codes for anyone else in future who may want to work on these codes. It may take you three to four days at casual pace to write that documentation up but it will pay off because that means that the actual code is no longer cluttered with unused code, y'know?

Your decision, though :). I'm posting this more as curious person than anything else ;). Personally, I think the mod without these codes in or with them will make no difference because what you have now is a tremendous mod of a great mod!
 
You said in Stop the Presses thread that this version will be your final version for new modmod additions. What about old leftover codes from Elections, Dark Ages, and whatever else that you abandoned for one reason or another. Will you clean AND_GlobalDefines.xml, the source codes and whatever else of these or will you leave them alone? Reason I ask is if you clean them up, that would make for less cluttered code. And you can always make a small basic txt file describing your codes for anyone else in future who may want to work on these codes. It may take you three to four days at casual pace to write that documentation up but it will pay off because that means that the actual code is no longer cluttered with unused code, y'know?

Your decision, though :). I'm posting this more as curious person than anything else ;). Personally, I think the mod without these codes in or with them will make no difference because what you have now is a tremendous mod of a great mod!

Since the code for the unused parts is never executed, it only increases the dll size, but doesn't hurt gamespeed. I'm not too worried about it.
 
Jumping on OS79's bandwagon -- sorry if it seems I've been trolling on a few topics lately...knowing this is close to finishing up made me want to make sure to weigh in on things like game balancing, building upgrades, etc.

Hopefully my comments were helpful :D I'm very pleased with the modmod and highly impressed with all the amazing improvements...it really is a whole new game compared to vanilla BTS!
:clap: :hatsoff: :beer:
 
I mean you should stop adding by now, and you did add many modmods since I registered my account in this forum, is it right? I just want to remind you that a huge project is hard to maintain, and a big one not a good one.

Oh, don't worry :D. Afforess already stated his position in another thread "Stop the Press". He said that this version will be the final version for new modmods. After this version, it will be just improvements and tweaks, that's it. Am I right, Afforess?
 
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