A new idea: religious wars

[McA123]

I think Rhye mentioned earlier it had been scrapped, or at least put off for the time being.

 

[UglyBoy]

That's what I wanted to know; whether it has been scrapped and we'll never see it or whether it has just been put back behind other things.

 

[onedreamer]

I'm not very fond of the idea because I think wars should be triggered by more political reasons. Religion has been just an excuse as many other invented to declare war.

 

[Rhye]

yes it's behind other things now.
We'll analyse the whole thing again after warlords version

 

[UglyBoy]

Thanks for the update Rhye!

 

[johny smith]

If you are going to work on this idea I will be greatly interested in it for my religions mod.

 

[onedreamer]

The idea kinda kills the point in spreading your religion, since you risk to provoke wars beacuse of it.

 

[dionysos2048]

Something like that would be really interesting though.
Not for all religions, but only Christianism and Islam maybe. This way, it would introduce a little balance between Christianism and other religions, as it's quite rare to see 4 civs with Islam or another religion. And war shouldn't be systematical, but an option only. Maybe as part of the Apostolic Palace.
Besides this would introduce some well needed flavour to religion in Civ.

 

[dionysos2048]

By the way the attached screenshots completely contradict what I've just written. Still this game would be very interesting with the proposed feature. Don't you think?

 

[johny smith]

I don't know how it will play out in Rhye's mod. I just want to see a schism system. The idea for my mod for spreading religion was. The reason you spread your religion is to prevent wars and make allies. The other thing I can explain with a phrase from Forrest Gump "Sh_t happens". That is what I want in my mod. You can not control what everyone believes in your empire well maybe you use fire to help.

I don't want to take this thread off Rhye's mod. I only wanted to say I support because of a fact of realism. I want all hell breaking loose with religion not a bunch of happy hippies always smiling.

 

[Úmarth]

Year old thread, people...

 

[opus95]

I like. The only thing I think is essential is to have the "brothers and sisters" diplo bonus adjusted according to sect. Catholics should like eachother more than they like Protestants, but they should like Protestants more than they like Muslims.

As to Judaism, first, let's get the names straight. It's either Hebrew, or sometimes hebraicized English, or plain, real English.
Hebrew(Hebraicized)=English
Haredi(Ortodoxi)=Orthodox
Masorati(Konservativi)=Conservative
(Reformi)=Reform
Now, the problem is that these aren't quite sects in the same way sects exist in other religions, afaik. It's more like levels of adherence. I'm not quite sure how realistic it would be, if two or more Jewish states existed, for one state to be officially Reform Jewish and another officially Orthodox Jewish. I know in Israel some would have the state go Orthodox Jewish and others would be more lax and tolerant and have the state acommodate Reform and Conservative Jews and just not get into all of the details of the Orthodox way of life.
I'm not sure about this, but my initial feeling is that the different streams of Judaism aren't quite fitting and that no real schism should be possible for Judaism in the game. But who knows how it could have played out in an alternate history.

There was at least one actual non-Hebrew state that had adopted the Jewish religion: the Khazars. I don't think they could easily be classified by either of the three names, Orthodox, Conservative or Reformed, but they did indeed practice some form of Judaism. How that would be represented in the game, I have no idea.

Opus95

 

[Lokolus]

As a Jew, I must say there is a large difference between Orthodox Jews and Reform Jews. Orthodox Jews are more traditional and practice Judaism in a more old and traditional way. while Reformi Jews are more liberal, they update their books once in a while and are more feminist (women can have Bar Mitzvahs and participate in all prayers and so forth).
Reform Judaism is relatively new and was founded in Germany in the 19th century.
Im Israeli and as most of the Israeli Jews Im Orthodox, but Im not really religious. so its not really "level of adherence."

 

[dionysos2048]

The point is Orthodox Jews never declared war on Reformi Jews.

 

[Lokolus]

Of course, there were never more than one Jewish state at the same time, so it was impossible to declare war at each other.

 

[dionysos2048]

Christians and Muslims have managed that, though. There's been many wars between Catholics and Protestants within the same nation for example.

 

[N3pomuk]

I don't know if its been said, but I would think there is anouther good way to implement this. Quests.
Lets make it interesting and say 2 ore more civs with a certain state religion are put to war with one anouther. One Seperates from the "TRUE" (the way things were before) way and is tasked with conquering the Holy City of -generic religion- and the other is tasked with defending it for x amount of turns, if the owner, or capturing it him/herself if not. Now if completed I would propose as a bonus 1. all your cities get your state religion in them for free 2. +x diplo bonus to all leaders with same State religion.
Quest idea number 2, random city within x squares (your empire or anouther) is seperating form the true way all religious leaders with state religion must now atempt to recapture it. Yet it spreads the skizim ala plauge slowly to all cities with that base religion. If it spreads to the holy city all civs with that state religion suffer a hit in stability and the skizim ends, if it spreads to say 50% of the cities in one civ you are then given option to control all seperated cities but are now at war with all other civs of that state religion plus diplo malus, or you can keep control of your remaining cities and go to war for the other side. Of course if any one manages to capture the city of skizim origin they get diplo / happyness bonus and all goes back to normal.

what do you think, it would also not need as much micromanagement as 2 sub religions.

You could also have these triggered by certain techs/wonders or by howmany non state religions are within your empire.