A new idea: religious wars

The idea that Jews are good merchants is a stereotype, in a way. Jews were pretty much forced to work as merchants in Europe for hundreds of years and still somehow prospered in that position.
I do however agree that it's a bit unrealistic to portray Judaism the way it is portrayed, as a religion that spreads and embraces new nations gladly, and can be spread by missionary. I think the way religions spread should be differentiated somewhat, and with Judaism there should be no missionaries, and it should spread very slowly and possibly be disfavored by the AI as a state religion.
 
Judaism was one of the earliest proselytist religions. They converted, within their own guidelines. The main reason Judaism didn't spread as far or wide as Christianity or Islam is because the religion was essentially homeless for more than 2000 years. (Also, the reason why Jewish people have the financial stereotype is because money-lending was sinful and illegal for Christians, so Jews filled this niche as a matter of survival.)

I'd also argue that Christianity and Islam's ability and willingness to spread had more to do with location and neighboring politics, even if their belief system had a lot to do with it too.

There's no need to make the religions drastically different. If you really wanted to simulate Judaism, you'd have it founded in a barbarian city which is easily conquered. And maybe have an incentive for working with a pagan religion for a while (so Rome doesn't convert the first chance they access Judaism).
 
Islam was spread by the sword, like the mod now does, christianity was spread by the Roman Empire, but this is most of the time Jewish (an other reason for a large roman empire, but that is an other forum). Around 300AD the Catholic Church was founded in Nicaea by all Christian sects in the empire comming together.

What you say about the Jews is true, but now they still are an economical superpower, in Antwerp, Belgium the Jews control the diamant trade, and most diamants pass trow Antwerp. And isn't the american vice-president jewish because of jewish financial support to the rep. party?
 
SM, all that doesn't demonstrate any kind of connection between the Jewish religion in and of itself and the positions of financial strength that certain ethnic Jews are in today or were in in the past.
 
Yeah, drop all that stuff about "people of religion X are all like that", because you'll always find a counter example. This mod does a pretty good job in terms of religious realism, IMO.
 
This is definitely true. While one might get the impression for instance that Chinese religious figures were extremely open-minded from what I said, the mergers between religions in China were certainly not without conflict. In fact many times a religion would take the other's idea in order to gain a competitive advantage over that religion. So for instance we have Daoists and Neo-Confucians taking many ideas from Ch'an (Zen) but at the same time attacking Buddhism on certain grounds particular to their beliefs. This never really came down to war in China, but it caused its fair share of conflict. Remember, where there's power there's vested interests and those trying to overthrow them. In this sense religions tend to all play out the same way.
 
I had an extremely weird religious division in my most recent game as England. Rome founded Islam before the coming of Arabia, which is the first time I've ever seen anyone other than Arabia found it. Persia founded Taoism, which happens occassionally, but it was the first time I'd seen Persia beat Arabia in a while, Russia was hindu for the first half of the game, then jewish, then christian. I was just REALLY surprised by the Roman-Islam situation.
 
McA123 said:
I had an extremely weird religious division in my most recent game as England. Rome founded Islam before the coming of Arabia, which is the first time I've ever seen anyone other than Arabia found it. Persia founded Taoism, which happens occassionally, but it was the first time I'd seen Persia beat Arabia in a while, Russia was hindu for the first half of the game, then jewish, then christian. I was just REALLY surprised by the Roman-Islam situation.
Click to expand...

cool! never seen that, but it proves the current system is better than the old scripted one
 
I was Greece, and founded confusism. Because of which, the major Western world Religions were Confusism and eventually Islam. Christianity was number 3.

Everyone in the East was Taoist and Hindu.
 
Taoism is sometimes founded by Persia, more rarely by Greece, and once I saw it founded by Egypt. I've seen confucianism founded by Greece too, actually. And I played one game as England where most Civs spent the game without a state religion until some random religion spread to one of their cities, at which point they immediately adopted it. This was because Christianity's holy city was barbarian, I think. But it ended up being a nothing-faith. Religions tend to follow a somewhat realistic path in the mod, but sometimes they deviate, which is good. Not everything should be set in stone.
 
Yeah, I think there's a pretty good balance. Most of the time it's the same as actual history, but there's a decent chance things work out differently.
 
I guess the question I have is are we now looking at two layers of religion - the religion as a whole and the sect? So being of a diff. sect may put you at odds with another civ of a different sect, but not as much as one w/ a different religion entirely? At the end, Muslims may look at Christianity or Judaism as a whole, or Hindus will look at Buddhists as a whole, regardless of sect - though we split Sunni or Shia, as a whole, we've treated Muslims as Muslims period, just as it seems as if many of them view the West as Christian (as opposed to Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, etc.).

Maybe if a civ of another faith starts attacking another religion, the different sects will somehow band together until the war is over.

And yet at the same time, aside from a few spots in around the world, England, for example, doesn't look at Italy or Mexico because it's predominantly Catholic as opposed to Protestant. And yet yes, def. in the Middle East their is clearly fighting among the Muslim sects - so how can sect be represented in the game, where at times maybe sects are cool w/ one another, while other times they aren't.
 
dc82 said:
I guess the question I have is are we now looking at two layers of religion - the religion as a whole and the sect? So being of a diff. sect may put you at odds with another civ of a different sect, but not as much as one w/ a different religion entirely? At the end, Muslims may look at Christianity or Judaism as a whole, or Hindus will look at Buddhists as a whole, regardless of sect - though we split Sunni or Shia, as a whole, we've treated Muslims as Muslims period, just as it seems as if many of them view the West as Christian (as opposed to Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, etc.).

Maybe if a civ of another faith starts attacking another religion, the different sects will somehow band together until the war is over.

And yet at the same time, aside from a few spots in around the world, England, for example, doesn't look at Italy or Mexico because it's predominantly Catholic as opposed to Protestant. And yet yes, def. in the Middle East their is clearly fighting among the Muslim sects - so how can sect be represented in the game, where at times maybe sects are cool w/ one another, while other times they aren't.
Click to expand...
... I think we have clearly established earlier that it is NOT going to be sects, it will be a minor thing, you won't see the sects in the game, it will be a gameplay thing...
As I said earlier, I do not think it would be displayed pleasantly in the game, besides, the religious system needs no more additions/ alteratoins, let's just leave it as it is (if the sects are kept the way Rhye described it earlier).
 
Rhye said:
no, they can't spread, because they aren't religions.
They are just a decision the leaders do, like the state religion.
Choose one faction, and in case join a war vs the other faction, that's it.
Click to expand...
Here is the quote I was looking for.
 
Rhye, have you seen the Eusebius World Religions MOD. It has pagan temples, religions founded by great profets and by a building. It has a shism system for christianty, but it has some new tech.

Perhaps you could get some inspiration.
 
hmmm, it looks interesting, but I think it'd need many tuning and balancing for it to work as one would wish. One that striked me was that certain religions would only found if x and x religions are in a city. It would be hard to make realism...
 
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