A random map, a sympathetic one (Deity Fractal)

[BornInCantaloup]

I'll post it here.
It seems a little more forgiving than I first thought. In fact, the map is kinda cool, provided you don't blow it.

If anybody wants to try their hand (at a pre t250 space race ?), they can post their progress here.

Fractal, low sea, this is the start. Roosevelt is the leader - the worst American leader.
Warning : there are decisions to be made (although not on where to settle).

Spoiler :

Do you see this riverside ? What could go wrong ?

gl gl

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I can guarantee a write-up to almost 1200 BC, this is already a moral victory.

ps : good choice, BiC, that was a great map, now I'm done with it !

 

[BornInCantaloup]

This is turn 5, time for our first decision :
(Don't click if you don't wanna.)

Spoiler :

So, Washington goes onto the ivory tile and gets a nice bonus, in the form of a wet corn.
With pigs in the capital and Agriculture already known, surely we should set research to Animal Husbandry, right, right ?
Wrong.
The warrior in the East has uncovered a seemingly perfect spot for a third city. Not a second city, mind you, a third.
How do we get a third city up asap ?
Well, it starts with Mining, Bronze Working. Expanding on a gold tile is the perfect excuse to favour BW over AH.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

I played a bit and went mining-BW too, despite not uncovering the corn-gold spot in the first 75T.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

This is turn 29 :
(noooo, don't click !)

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Wait, what ? Happy resources, strategic resources ? What is this trickery, some sort of dark magic ? Sorcery ?
Also, two workers are out. Let us rewind a little.
The first worker has farmed the corn, then mined the hill, then pre-chopped the forest NE of Washington.
Since we were researching BW and aiming to plant a city 9 tiles East of Washington, the city started a Worker at size 2, which came out shortly after BW was done.
The forest to the NE wasn't chopped since it wouldn't speed up that second worker. Now, Washington has grown to size 3 (completing the 2nd warrior) and 60H worth of chops are ready to go into the settler : this is a 4-turns build.

Can you see the location for city 2 ?
I'll give it to you : SW of the copper. This is a fine spot to train the third worker (improve the copper + chop).
It is also on the way to the gold site.

Now that we've discovered yet another pigs tile, surely we are researching Animal Husbandry. No, of course, the Wheel should take priority, so as to actually get us there.

Question : how do we build the settler for city 3 ?
This one we can whip at size 4, with the help of a chop. (3 turns build)

Also :

Spoiler :

A lot of desert but more rivers, this is nice. We've met a few AIs. Carthage in the South-East, Mongolia in the North-East, Khmer in the West.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

This is turn 33 :
(alright, go for it)

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

This is cute : the road can be completed in time to speed up the settling.
Workers movement in red : 2x chopped vs chopped and roaded.
I revolted into Slavery last turn. Now Washington can grow to 4 on the 3rd warrior.
Remember how we want to assist the whip for the 3rd settler with a chop ? That means one of those workers will remain by the capital city.

New-York will be settled next turn and start on the third worker.
Clearing up the jungle tile means that the second worker will be able to hop onto the copper tile next turn as well.

Carthaginian borders have been found by the coast in the SE.
Oh, yeah, and I'm going for a cheap Pottery now (Agri+Fishing) vs, yet again, Animal Husbandry.

 

[sampsa]

T33

Spoiler :

Made a pretty huge mistake and settled on ph to get 1st ring food. Guess I didn't foresee T50 cap border pop... At least I realized I'm going to need archery! My scouting is non-existent as usual.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

T33

Spoiler :

Made a pretty huge mistake and settled on ph to get 1st ring food. Guess I didn't foresee T50 cap border pop... At least I realized I'm going to need archery! My scouting is non-existent as usual.

View attachment 616134

Very interesting.

Spoiler :

I'm confident you're not the only one who would settle New-York in that way. On T5, it looks like the obvious spot (and it's kinda nice to have a guaranteed spot for city 2 that early).
I'll admit that it took me a pause to figure out SW of the copper : that city doesn't even share a cottage with Washington.

So, obviously, I had the incentive to go East, having scouted the gold. You mention the capital's border pops and that's a good point.
There's a little more than that : workboats and axemen.
Once Washington is done with its settler, its next build is an axeman (in my game ; even working the mine at size 2, over a floodplains, to get it out).
Workboats are a heavy committment, that early on, competing directly with the extra workers. Copper in the first ring contributes a worker without the need to invest into a workboat. Even better, copper in the first ring (aka New-York) can then build the 2 workboats itself, at its leisure, when the opportunity cost is not so dramatic.

 

[sampsa]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

Yep, there are plenty of reasons to get 1st ring copper - I just didn't think about it and autopiloted 1st ring food. Archery is a detour which means my cottages (and granaries) are a bit late. Axes should be pretty useful on this map as there is plenty of room for barbs to spawn. My heroic archers had to defend against 4 spears!

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Turns 38-39 :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

As announced, a timely chop was made in Washington (now size 4), so it would only need 2 turns into the settler before whipping.
The highlighted worker spent a turn roading that tile, then... do I really need that road ?
As it happens : it is unnecessary, it doesn't speed up the settling of city 3 : roading the copper and one tile further is enough to reduce the travel time of the settler to 4 turns.
Soooo....
That worker can, in fact, chop the forest 2S2E and help complete the worker in New-York at an appreciable 64H/60.

Look, it's easier to see this way :

Spoiler :

Pottery is in. Now we can go towards AH. Not Hunting, no, because the gold will do for now (happiness), I'd like a few more warriors (probably) and I don't want to suffer the delay towards Writing.
The warrior by the corn is dancing a little, just having peaks at AI units passing by and not fogbusting too hard, so as to avoid attracting settler parties.
Washington is starting on an Axeman next turn, working corn + mine.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

My heroic archers had to defend against 4 spears!

I'm sure there's plenty of room for that, on this map

This is turn 44 :
(oops, I did it again)

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Hum... so, Boston is the city's name, uh ? It has been settled a couple of turns ago and the corn will be improved next turn (thank you for the worker, New-York).
Does it look like a nice grab, now ? I'd say it looks mighty fine. With all those AI borders, it is also very safe against barbarians.
Let me just remind you that this is a success : this is what I've played towards from as early as turn 5
How do we go about this city's development ?
It seems we can road before mining, so we do that.
I still want to expand, so : after the mine is done, 1 worker remains on site to chop a 4th worker at size 2. Grow to 2, work the corn+gold, start on a 6-turns worker is the answer.

Meanwhile...

Spoiler :

Some heat. The barbarians will avoid attacking my units and head straight for Washington. Some more will appear. I'll lose the warrior outside the city and the axeman will defend against 5 units (some injured), gaining 8xp in the process : Axeman is now a Woodsman II.
I'm fine with losing the warrior, I actively tried to engage in defense to avoid getting my corn pillaged. The corn didn't get pillaged. I'm happy with the result.

The worker is still chopping : I intend to 1-pop whip Washington's granary. Then, before it is pasture time, it will plant the lone cottage.
As advertised, New-York is now on Workboat duty.

Oh, yes, before I forget... Also, I found Suryvayarman's borders :

Spoiler :

Holy Levees ! I want that, all of it. I don't know how but I want it all.
This is the point where I thank the game for Low Sea Level.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Turn 57 :
(now this is tricky)

Spoiler :

We get to Writing, city 4 is ready to be settled, this is the end of the initial expansion (kinda).
The economy is fine, there are 4 workers, a Granary, 30+ hammers into a Library.
The question is : what are we supposed to do ?

Spoiler :

So, 4th city next turn with a worker on standby.
The worker by Boston is a little out of position : cottaging. The little guy should be roading to Mongolia for trade routes (is there anything that city doesn't do ?).
New-York is almost done with its Granary. It then goes Warrior -> 2nd Axeman -> Barracks.
Washington has just whipped the settler and overflows heavily into the Library. This is what "max overflow" is for. The other 2 workers by Washington are unsure whether they should be chopping or cottaging.

(Can you see the cute little corner of paradise in the SW with clams and gems ?)

Now, what's the plan ?

Spoiler :

This is the area to the North. Barb cities are slowly creeping in on us. This is why New-York will start on some Barracks, I suppose.
So... Roosevelt is known as the Great Lighthouse Specialist. Is this a map for the GLH, really ?
There's the stone. I've known about the stone for a while, now (like, almost the whole game). Am I really settling up there, really ?
Nah... I don't think so.
The city spot I envision for city 5 is 3N of Washington. There's no hurry but that is the location.

Spoiler :

More barbarian cities ! (There's actually another one, hidden in the fog, below the horses.)
This, actually, is excellent news. I'm competing against Sury for this area, he is an excellent REXer and I can hope the barb cities will slow him down.

So, what's the plan again ? I want some metal units with City Raider to capture along those rivers, sure.
I've met Huayna Capac who founded both Hinduism and Judaism (sidenote : those AIs are all Pleased with each other).
I'm kinda interested in two different techs :
- Metal Casting for IND Forges with gold and gems (seems good, right ?) ;
- Code of Laws for some action and ORG Courthouses (seems like the city count might explode, right ?).
Hum... suddenly, Roosevelt doesn't seem so bad anymore.

So, this is the plan, right ? We research Metal Casting and Code of Laws, easy.
Another thing, I forgot :
At this point in the game, turn 57, a single wonder has been completed, and it was the Stonehenge in 2000 BC.
Can I stress that enough ? A single wonder. Judaism has just been founded, like, barely. It's like they didn't want to but they did anyway, probably in some kind of accident.
So, the plan is that we go for an Oracle play.

Look, this is easy :

Spoiler :

1, 2, 3, 4, that's four forests, so 120H/150 accounted for towards the Oracle. Surely, we can find another 30H, right ? Even, like, whipping a Warrior is 24H of overflow already.

We beeline Code of Laws, Oracle Metal Casting along the way. This is the plan.

 

[Pangaea]

I was intrigued by the frequent updates. Naturally (heh) low sea level makes for a difficult scenario, but I'm trying it out. I'm writing this update before reading any of yours, so take it for what it is.

Turn 53/1880BC:

Spoiler :

Ended up taking a thousand pictures, so will post some of them. Difficult start. Okay, settling on ivory makes sense, but from fog gazing it kinda looks like FP to the SE. Turns out that was incorrect, but we lost another clam by moving. But gains a wet corn! Woot.

Spoiler :

But what to tech here?? I'm pondering many things. Eventually I land on going Hunting first (after waiting the five turns, which did nothing here). It gives a bonus on AH, which I want early, and it gives a shortcut to archery. The latter is actually an important consideration under these unfriendly settings. Even more so after freaking Genghis Khan shows up as the first AI. If we don't die to barbs, he's likely to be the end of us.

Could be questionable, but the warrior ended up going up that ridge of desert hills, and then parked himself on the stone. Not because I want to settle up there, but because deadlands like that can spawn barbs, and I want to try to avoid that.

In turn 3 it becomes apparent there is a creative civ in the world, which later is revealed as Sury. Bugger, that guy is always good. More bad news as AIs show up (four so far). They all love each other, dislike me, and put all their spy points on me. Never a good sign.

I went worker first, then improved the corn, and in turn 18 there is another decision to be made. Wheel is a little tempting for connecting cities, but has lower value due to no horses being in sight anywhere I go Mining. Once that is in, there is an even more important decision. Do I dare to go BW, or make the safe call of going Archery?

Spoiler :

Turn 25 and I need to make that call. Looking at the capital, there are few tiles that can be copper (only 4). Not impossible of course, but a big gamble. It would also be cutting it pretty close, as barbs can invade around T35 sometimes, and certainly by T40 if given the chance. Getting the tech isn't enough, I need the units too. So I decide to go archery. It feels safer given this huge map (over 1200 land tiles!) with only 6 AIs.

I'm trying to dance around too dangerous barbs, but sometimes you don't have a choice, like when your warrior moves onto a hill and is stood face to face with an archer. Thankfully he wins this one, which feels like a 5% win.

Spoiler :

With Archery in, there is another big call: do I go BW now?

Spoiler :

No. Wait a bit more. We already have archery, so safety is kinda secured. BW would be great, but I need commerce too. So I go Wheel, and then hope to be able to go Pottery after. First settler is sent to that hill between rice and pig, which won't be auto-connected. But looks like only one road is needed.

The city is settled in T34, and it start by building a warrior and archer by working forested plains instead of unimproved pig. The warrior nearby just defeated a fellow warrior, but this place is not at all safe.

Spoiler :

I spot the borders of Genghis just NE of this city, but so far he seems to 'only' have archers. Let's hope that remains the situation for the rest of the game!

Barbs are a little late to invading, but it's turn 48 now, and here they come. Tough call to let this guy stand his ground, but due to the archer being weakened, I hope we kill at least him. He is practically at full health with 20% fortification.

Spoiler :

Don't have "room" for showing the combat log as well, but he actually wins both fights! Archer only had 1.7%, and the warrior 6.8%.

More barbs coming from the west and north-east. I had an archer in the west, but on a hill with good view. However, that meant a barb archer snuck past him from what appears to be the jungle. But I moved my dude back, and thankfully a fight ensued in the forest instead of the bugger invading and busting my mine or corn. The one in the NE actually didn't invade, so he probably invaded Genghis instead. Looks like he has a city over there.

Spoiler :

Stats just after 2000BC (t52). Pretty hectic for so early in the game.

Spoiler :

This is a map overview in T53, which is how far I've played. We're still alive and worst seems over for now, but we'll see. Suddenly Genghis can show up with 12 Keshiks or something stupid like that. The capital is size 6 btw, and just started on another settler. Maybe I can finally get it up north of the capital now, or possibly try to snatch the corn in the east?

Spoiler :

It's nice to be alive at this point at least, but don't think I want to play out a map like this. It's going to be way too difficult with so much land for the AIs to grab, and such a difficult diplo situation with so many leaders that dislike me and love each other. Almost sure to get DOWed by Genghis before 1000BC.

Feels very strange to not have BW yet, but I thought it made some sense here, given the reasons I posted about above. And it will be done in 4 turns as you can see. Now I want to read the other updates, and see how you guys played it

 

[konata_LS]

Nice write-ups !

Spoiler :

It seems BiC's scouting is the opposite of sampsa: BiC's warrior moved to 6 tiles out of the capital, while sampsa just let the warrior fogbust nearby. Pangaea's scouting was the "middle" of the other two players: mowing the warrior not too far, not too close.

Will any of you go GLH? Cheap wonders + half-price LH make the GLH tempting for Roosevelt.

 

[Pangaea]

I usually didn't play like this up to Immortal, but lately have learnt to appreciate the extra safety of archery and staying closer to home with early units. To me, if I may be allowed to say so, the gameplan of BiC looks very risky. Ofc early map knowledge is very different due to different scouting patterns, but going all the way out there so early, could very easily lead to a barb razing the city. Think I've also been encouraged by watching Lain go archery fairly frequently, because I used to think of it like a deathly sin. Until Deity barbs kicked my arse!

I've ended up with a bunch of concurrent games, and this one looks like a mammoth (it's kinda obvious from map settings, so don't fret at this being outside spoilers). I'll probably play a little further to see what happens, but doubt I'll try to finish the map. If I live long enough to be able to make that call myself that is, hah.

 

[Pangaea]

Damnit My Woodie2 guy died in a 12% fight

Spoiler :

Full fortification and everything. Kinda hurts less on Deity, oddly enough, because it's not like I can go workerstealing against this crazy lot and difficulty.

 

[Pangaea]

Interesting, @sampsa

Spoiler :

I didn't know you were related to Hannibal

 

[Pangaea]

Sorry for all the posts, but I made it this far at least. T80.

Spoiler :

So.. many.. barbs!! Sury building the Great Wall certainly didn't help

Spoiler :

Losing combat like that doesn't help either. But then there is a lot of fighting, and we do kill a bunch too.

I had started to slow-tech into Mysticism, dreaming about Oracle, but it went before I could do much of anything, in T66.

Yeah... this is great Genghis. Only the 8 cities too, huh?

Spoiler :

Oh hell yeah, take it, with ALL MY HEART!!!

Spoiler :

With the Oracle gone, I had another look at the Great Lighthouse, and decided to go all in for it.

Spoiler :

Definitely late, but glad it worked! We only have the two coastal cities for now, but it's better to have GLH than to not have it.

This looks like such a nice barb city, and it's down to one defender now (in T80), but sadly there isn't anything I can do with a full health archer left. My guy busts a cottage instead.

Spoiler :

I felt a little bad for settling that gold city, but with a warrior over there it wasn't unreasonable I would have spotted that location anyway, though perhaps not as early as I did, and then it's also possible it would have been too late as Hannibal had an axe fortified on the gold. We only have five cities in T80, but then we had a world of hurt from the barb horde as well.

Spoiler :

Wonders thus far

Spoiler :

The game appears to be going pretty much as expected. AIs get a pile of cities while I try to survive the barbs, and they will soon take off in teching power. And Genghis will probably DOW us at some point in the near future. He seems to like Hannibal, so....

 

[Pangaea]

Okay, okay. I need to stop playing this one. But here is 1AD.

Spoiler :

Genghis keeps surrounding us with cities, and stealing the spots I thought to settle. Here is one settler party, with another settler party as tag-along.

Spoiler :

T103, and it's GG.

Spoiler :

Gotta love peace vassaling.

In T109, team Genghis starts plotting. I'm very glad we have a peace treaty from a beg earlier. Which lasted for two more turns. I did that when taking the leap of picking the non-Genghis religion. We were actually still pleased afterwards, but at some point fell down to cautious. Not sure if that would make me safe, or only safe until the peace treaty expired, but in any case, he only spends 3 turns plotting. Then declares.

Spoiler :

Maybe this is one of those opportunistic wars, because I don't see a huge stack yet. And I'm sure a freakin' 14-city Genghis Khan has about 2 million units by now.

Here is the empire at 1AD. I'm pleased about managing to secure those barb cities in the south-west, and also settling a few. It's a squeezed area, but I figured it was worth it. That is also why I kept the lousy foodless barb city: with GLH, even that one runs at a profit.

Spoiler :

Unless Music goes next turn, we got that one in the bag, which will be nice. We don't have horses, but it's available in trade now and then, so Cuirs looks possible since we have iron.

Wonders and cities. HC has a size 19 capital. Holy mother! At 1AD. Nuts.

Spoiler :

Edit: Nope, even the Music race was too late. Lost it by one #"¤! turn.

I know this is a lost game, so little point going through the motions. But here is the save too in case somebody want to see anything. Hopefully you other lot are doing better/having better luck.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

To me, if I may be allowed to say so, the gameplan of BiC looks very risky. Ofc early map knowledge is very different due to different scouting patterns, but going all the way out there so early, could very easily lead to a barb razing the city.

Please do
What risk are you referring to ? The scouting, settling city 3 or going for a wonder ? There is an amount of risk to any plan but, then, there is also an amount of reward to any plan. City 3 felt safe to me, even more so after settling (what didn't feel safe was : actually claiming the city spot before the AIs). As for scouting, Konata is right that I place a lot of value on it. Besides, I could organize my defense without the need for the extra unit (not the case on every map). Finding AIs, scouting the map, finding city locations, making long-term plans, all of these have a huge strategic importance.
(Also, dying to barbarians is my n°1 cause of loss on deity.)
As for risking a wonder...

This is a T70 teaser :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

There isn't much of a risk, here, if I am, in fact, going for Code of Laws anyway. Either I get the bonus tech (Metal Casting), either I don't.
As we will see, it is mostly a cost in worker turns. And, then, there is upside.
Keep in mind I already had Writing, 4 cities, 4 workers and a gold mine running when I made that decision. This isn't the same situation as losing the Oracle after skipping some key techs and/or sacrificing city spots.

Good guy Hannibal discoverd Alphabet this turn. That seems handy

ps : I am baffled by the amount of barbarians you fought. I just had the single wave that I mentionned. It's possible that having the stronger unit makes a difference in their decisions. TGW location was probably also bad luck for you for a couple of reasons.