A Request for Shadow Game

[WhatMeNo]

Hello, I've been playing Civ IV BtS for a while now but have yet to play very seriously. I've been wanting to start a forum game where I am shadowed.
Are there any things that should be disabled (goody huts, random events, certain victories) for a normal forum game? Are certain times/maps/map sizes normal for forum games? I will start a forum game as soon as I know what is "normal".
Thanks very much.

 

[lymond]

Normal Speed/Normal Size
Pangaea I think is best for learning, starting out. Continents or Fractal is okay too.
No Huts/No Events
All Victories enabled

 

[WhatMeNo]

Alright, well I have started a new game with above specifications.
Random leader gave us:

Spoiler :

Here is my start:

Spoiler :

Where should I found? Should I build worker first?
Save file attached.

 

[lymond]

It amazes me how newbies somehow always luck out an terrible starts when running these shadow games. Listen..if you don't have good food then reroll. Do us and yourself a favor. Civ IV is all about FOOD

Anyway, maybe you will luck out on something to the West. Settle on the Plains Hill 1 SW and pray for more food. It's the best move either way as you keep all visible resources and get the hammer bonus to the city center tile for boosted early production.

Warrior move is pretty irrelevant here due to positioning. Maybe move him 1NE for now.

 

[WhatMeNo]

As suggested, I re-rolled. Here is the new start:

Spoiler :

Are the 3 crabs good enough?
Save attached.

 

[Daraexus]

I'm a noble player, I'll give my opinion, but I suggest to wait for others to show up and confirm/disprove my thoughts on what to do first.

I'd suggest to move your Warrior South. If there's nothing there, SIP (Settle in Place). 3 Clams should suffice to a decent GP farm in your capital.

As NAE starts with Fishing and Agriculture, I'd work the elephants while building a Work Boat to work the clams. I'd go for Hunting->Mining->Bronze Working as starting tech path.

Nevertheless, let's see what other experienced players think.

 

[WhatMeNo]

I'm a noble player, I'll give my opinion, but I suggest to wait for others to show up and confirm/disprove my thoughts on what to do first.

I'd suggest to move your Warrior South. If there's nothing there, SIP (Settle in Place). 3 Clams should suffice to a decent GP farm in your capital.

As NAE starts with Fishing and Agriculture, I'd work the elephants while building a Work Boat to work the clams. I'd go for Hunting->Mining->Bronze Working as starting tech path.

Nevertheless, let's see what other experienced players think.

Now, would you go Worker --> Work Boat --> Work Boat --> Work Boat for all three clams?

 

[lymond]

this one is okay ...at least Sitting Butt starts with fishing. coastal starts are sometimes tricky for newer players as they can call for unorthodox starting builds.

The warrior move here again won't do you much. Wish he was on the W side.

The tile 1SW of the warrior is clearly a strat resource like horses. However, I'd still recommend settling on the ivory for the production boost. It means faster WB and worker early. Plus it gives you more land tiles vs. coastal tiles. Another city can grab horse or whatever later and your culture will grab it soon anyway. There's still plenty of production here.

Barring what you see in the fog like a good food resource, I would start with a Worboat at max hammers (1F2H tile or 3H tile if exists). Beeline BW so you can chop out more work boats and other stuff.

Build a worker after WB using clams, or start a WB and grow to size 2 or more and whip the worker after BW. the chop out the 2nd work boat.

 

[Daraexus]

As Limond says, I'd go Work Boat->Work Boat->Worker, so you give your capital time to grow. If you go for Bronze Working, you can whip the worker as he told you.

Meanwhile, don't forget to scout with your warrios, looking for spots for your next cities.

Also, the save you posted is the one from your first start.

Sorry, it was my mistake, not yours.

 

[WhatMeNo]

this one is okay ...at least Sitting Butt starts with fishing. coastal starts are sometimes tricky for newer players as they can call for unorthodox starting builds.

The warrior move here again won't do you much. Wish he was on the W side.

The tile 1SW of the warrior is clearly a strat resource like horses. However, I'd still recommend settling on the ivory for the production boost. It means faster WB and worker early. Plus it gives you more land tiles vs. coastal tiles. Another city can grab horse or whatever later and your culture will grab it soon anyway. There's still plenty of production here.

Barring what you see in the fog like a good food resource, I would start with a Worboat at max hammers (1F2H tile or 3H tile if exists). Beeline BW so you can chop out more work boats and other stuff.

Build a worker after WB using clams, or start a WB and grow to size 2 or more and whip the worker after BW. the chop out the 2nd work boat.

When should I check back with you guys? How many turns?

 

[Daraexus]

It's better to do a small turnset while starting (10-15 turns). If you feel confident, you could do more until you reach a point of confusion/doubt and you'd like to know our advice.

Don't be afraid of commenting your thoughts on strategies, ideas. In that way you'll gain more confidence ;D

 

[lymond]

the shorter the better. 90 plus percent of starts are worker first, so we just say play until the worker arrives. You'll have some good scouting done by then too so we can assess the land.

In this case, I would play until BW is in so we can help you through that initial process I discussed.

 

[WhatMeNo]

Bronze Working is discovered and I've changed Civics to Slavery. Note: I founded on the spot because the allure of the mystery resource south was too much (I also have a huge fear of settling on resources).

I found a spot that I thought had enough food to be a good city (where the warrior is standing):

Spoiler :

I met Ragnar:

Spoiler :

Here is the world right after discovering BW:

Spoiler :

Save included as always.

 

[enKage]

I liked former one but only if moving settler 1 SW and settling there would reveal something foodish bit still it was not mediocore start

your second start - is ok, but I will call it "advanced", cause you have to start with workboat. If it is fish, that/s ok, but claims? reroll.

Rerol until you have REAL food nearby (that mean: farm)

 

[lymond]

Well, doesn't do much good if you ain't gonna listen. Settling on elephants was the better move. It's a very common play.

 

[WhatMeNo]

When I discover Hunting, will the city's tile (if on the Elephant) be the equivalent of a Camp improvement?

 

[enKage]

You will get elephants, but the tile will be the same. Still 2 hammer start is better than camping elephant (elephant is a weak tile even improved. It is powerfull only because it gives acces to dumbos)

Settling elephant will give you immediate boost to production without having to discover usually skipped tech (in most games you want to avoid hunting, there are more usuful techs to research))

 

[lymond]

When I discover Hunting, will the city's tile (if on the Elephant) be the equivalent of a Camp improvement?

You are basically sacrificing 1H later for 1H much sooner. faster the start better the game. You still would have had plenty of production (and a surprise later on)

Settling on certain resources that boost the center tile (whether food, commerce or hammers) is a common tactic. Ofc, settling on plains hills is nice.

Things such as sugar, bananas, dry rice, elies, riverside wine and calendar resources, PH marble and stone (best tiles to settle on).

The main thing you want to avoid settling on is strong food resources, unless you already have an abundance and it makes for an overall better city settling in that spot.

 

[WhatMeNo]

Okay, I redid the game and settled on the Elephant. My God, I noticed an immediate difference. It's turn 19 and I've just discovered BW with two WBs already complete.

 

[Patchface]

Here is my opening, to 1320 BC.

Spoiler :

Settled on the phant for the extra hammer, queued a workboat and citizen worked the forested hill. Tech was Mining->Bronze Working.


Warrior moved south and saw Celtic borders on turn 2 (!). Before it popped even. So I moved closer with an eye to worker steal, but then I saw a completely undefended capital.


So I declare war, and sure enough Brennus pops a warrior next turn. At 11% odds, I dedided to gamble. and lost.



So, having failed to either take a worker, or the Brennus' capital, I have little choice but to queue a worker:


Finished the worker same turn as BW arrives, so I chop and mine a hill while building a 2nd workboat. Then build a Dog Soldier.



Discovered Horse nearby, so teched Wheel next in order to hook up the horse and get a chariot army together.



Meanwhile the Dog Soldier camped on a forested hill north of Bibracte (he's out of turns in this pic).


Settled the 2nd city and teched pottery to build Grainary-Barracks-Chariots* in both cities. At 7 chariots and 1 DS, I attacked 3 archers in Bibracte. Didn't quite take it.



However, 2 chariots and the DS survived, and luckily Brennus didn't get another archer out, so I took Bibracte on the next turn.

If I were continued, plan would be to:
* take Celtia's 2nd city with Chariots
* finish HBR while cottaging Poverty Point.
* build stables everywhere
* HA rush someone else.