Aaaarmy Training, Sir!

ShiVvV · Oct 14, 2014

Wow...just Wow!

Awesome turnset, Lymond. That was certainly worth the wait! Appears to me to be game-breaking. Kudos to Quip and Walter_Wolf (and anyone else that saw it too) for recognizing our opportunity to hit Izzy.

Had I been playing this game solo, this is probably what would've happened...

Spoiler :

I'm still processing your set here but have a couple of newbie-ish questions for you Lymond while I'm still thinking about them:
1) Can you explain the 'granary trick/avoid growth' thing in Hittite for me? I have no idea what's going on here.
2) The ghill cottages east of Berlin were built in expectation of Berlin being new capital, right? So, if we decide to relocate cap to Madrid instead, we would mine>windmill these tiles soonish for max. growth in Berlin? I'm assuming this would be GP farm as you mentioned so NatEpic goes here also?
3) Not a question but--clearing jungle on calendar resource tiles pre-Calendar; will remember that.
4) Did you consider razing any of Izzy's cities? Did they just look good enough to keep? (I rarely raze cities unless they're just horrible so I guess what I'm asking here is your thoughts on razing vs. keeping conquest cities).

Various minor things:
1) Stuttgart to be razed and relocated 2N?
2) 'Filler city' 1SE or 1S2E of Stuttgart eventually? (can steal cows from Frankfurt once bananas up)--or is this area even worth settling?
3) The whole spy thing is on me. About the only beneficial thing they can still do for us is steal 62 gold from Biz (yay!) or city revolt (meh). Biz must've run counter-espy on us. Espionage goes against Churchill now?
4) Where do we want the HerEpic? Madrid, Barcelona, Salamanaca all have hills/levee potential (if we get that far)...maybe AA?

Roster
3. Lymond-set completed gloriously
4. yena-UP (haven't heard from yena recently so I will also prepare to play; chime in if still with us yena).
5. ShiVvV-On Deck

lymond · Oct 14, 2014

1) The granary thing is not that easy to explain. If you can believe it, in the years I've been playing, it's only fairly recently that I learned about it. Part of it is understanding granary mechanics, which you would be better served reading an War Acad article on. Basically there are optimal times to finish a granary, whether whipping it or chopping it. In certain cases, you can use the "avoid growth" button to prevent growth after the granary finishes, if the city would grow that turn. This allows the food surplus in the city to fill the granary that turn and the next. This can jump start your granary/food bucket and lead to much faster growth in the city subsequently. This can be very effective in smaller cities with decent food.

Really, the best way to learn this is just to test it out in practice games. In SGOTMs, for a given city's granary build, we will actually test it out in test maps first to get the best optimization for finishing granary and growth. (For example, set up a game. Use an EXP leader for convenience. Improve the city via WB and add a couple of workers for chopping. Save it and try different scenarios while chopping the granary at certain points of growth. Look at the food bucket before and after in each case and not the differences. Ofc, try it with and without avoid growth and not that that option should e used at a growth point after just finishing a granary. You don't always need to use it.)

2) Yeah, I initially thought Berlin might make the best bureau cap without really thinking about the map as a whole and what Iz might have. Honestly though, a Bureau cap should already be well in development by this stage. We can still certainly use Bureau somewhere - like Madrid - but the short term efficacy will be limited simply as we have no development. Madrid does have some commerce from those spices which helps and it can be cottage heavily.

Berlin on the other hand does appear to be the best option for GP farm that I see, and having the 2 GE wonders in there is nice for a GE or two, although that can screw up getting some GSs short-term. But with TGL in there we should be ok and I think we can get some pure GSs elsewhere. (Technically, Berlin still is probably the best Bureau cap at this stage, but I don't think we have a better GP farm either....and the two concepts are mutually exclusive)

We could possibly bypass a true Bureau cap and work on more of a hammer economy, especially this large. Bulbing will likely be the key to the game I think anyway. The Bureau cap basically helping with some research and gold along the way.

The nice thing is we have Rep and libraries/CHs pretty much everywhere, so beakers are not at issue, rather gold.

As for Berlin's tile improvements, it really doesn't matter at this point for a GP farm. The key thing obviously is food...with some hammers to build TGL in NE...mainly from chops. The other improvements aren't that necessary right now as this city will focus on growth and specialists. Workers there will be needed for other cities. At most we may lay down a farm or two, especialy one to irrigate the corn there.

4) Actually I did and maybe I should have, but was thinking domination (although you can certainly raze/resettle in that case) Last city is fairly sucky but it does have resources. All the others seemed like keepers. At this point though I felt it better to keep most stuff as I think we can benefit from them and support it. We may razed stuff later though...depending.

....

1) Stuttgart to be razed and relocated 2N?

Definitely raze it, but I don't see an urgent need to resettle any time soon. We can always produce settlers on the back-end to fill-up the land for domination. And keep in mind that some of Stutt's better tiles can be used by existing cities.

2) 'Filler city' 1SE or 1S2E of Stuttgart eventually? (can steal cows from Frankfurt once bananas up)--or is this area even worth settling?

I don't really see a purpose to that for this game. Maybe if going space/corps to max out land/beakers, but for our purpose I think it's more of a burden than benefit.

3) I'd have to check, but since we have dudes in there already and one at 50% maybe a city revolt before attack is a good idea. I think focus on Church or Cyrus is good. Maybe even get one going on then the other as far as tech visi, but I'd have to look at it more closely.

4) I'll have to look at best HE site later, but we should at least be putting bits of OF into HE in any cities with barracks to get some fail gold later from it.

lymond · Oct 14, 2014

Giving HE spot more thought we don't have great options in existing cities. I like Addis Ababa the best so far - farm the FPs there. OR we settle a city 1SW of the iron North of AA for what I think is a pretty darn good HE city. Takes corn from Hittite, has iron and 3 to 4 more hills - workshops later. (corn will irrigated eventually). Perfect HE city IMO and we can use HE for fail gold during the process of prepping that city.

Quip · Oct 14, 2014

Some thoughts looking at the save (Great job Lymond):

NE Discussion - I think it can be a GPP source and be Bureau, but there's no real reason to put NE here. Instead, a binary with a not as great GPP farm would still be just as good. So far, I think it's got to be Barca. Cows, sugar, some farms prebuilt and no cottages really worth the investment vs. Rep specialists. Actually, I think should consider chopping in GL somewhere else, like Madrid or even Salamanca and build Shwedagon Paya instead. It not only gives some Prophet points we could use, but no GS points in Berlin, which I think we're going to like when we have to keep burning scientists on bulbs instead of triggering GAs. Also we wouldn't have to tech Theology to unlock Theocracy, which is going to be a fun civic once we get back on the warpath.

HE Discussion - Well, at this moment I'm kinda favoring Lailabela. We're going to get irrigation soon, and I expect we'll be switching into caste with bureau. It would be a great

City Specialization - I'd say at this point we have Madrid, Seville, Toledo, Munich and Berlin as our commerce cities and the rest run specialists or hammers until we win. Basically the only things I'd say are worth the investment outside of commerce cities are grassland hamlets or above. Even though those probably would pay off in the long run, I think we'll be hearing the crack of the whip again before they'd ever catch up in value to specialists. In other words, granary-courthouse-library-wealth in every city until we get some new shiny military tech.

Tech thoughts - Golden Age Scientist, Finish CS. Then, if we really want to be a powerhouse, we collect these techs in some order: Metal Casting, Machinery, Monarchy, Construction, Engineering, and Theology (Or build Shwedagon Paya -see NE thoughts above). With that we can have maces/trebs, and then we can start a churchill smackdown. I'm not sure we really want to divert to Music, the free Great artist is nice but I don't know if it brings enough to the table economically to really be worthwhile. It might be better just to hit Churchhill ASAP.

Win conditions - I think we are best suited to go for either Domination or conquest. Sadly, we still don't have Montezuma at war with Cyrus, so we've got 3 full strength civs to take down. I'd guess we would win faster if we go for Domination on our continent and eschew astronomy and capitulating the missing AI. That means we really only get to vassal one of the guys on our continent, and then we'd probably want at least half his land just to be on the safe side.

lymond · Oct 15, 2014

I kinda disagree with much of the above with the possible exception of TGL in Madrid. Barca...no no no..don't get that at all. However, Madrid might be great for getting up a fast MoM, while Berlin gets up TGL/NE.

It may depend on what we want to do...Oromos vs. Curs...but a couple of GEs in the mix could get us a fast Gunpowder.

(I should caveat that I'm mainly a Cur guy. It really is the fast way to victory on this level. However, Oromos can be fun with a possible Lib Steel or Rifling - after using Oromos for some time with trebs)

Regardless, things like Sweggie are distractions from a strong Dom/Conq win, except for putting bits of OF into it for fail gold. If we want Theo we can get it one way or another, but it is not necessary. Vassalage might be just a strong for a spell, especially considering we don't have a strong Bureau cap ( to wit - not a strong one in the timeframe we are looking at)

Our focus right now should be on major teching and bulbing. Everything should be geared toward that. That includes some select wonders (TGL, Mom), a golden age, building wealth wherever possible...and tech tech tech.

(Church can be pretty painful withouth a strong military advantage)

If Lali is the Horse city, I did consider it, but there is still better. That Iron/corn city could be ready in time for the next build-up.

Fippy · Oct 15, 2014

Had an interesting time thinking about if or where we would have set up a Bur. Capi in sgotm games (let's assume we would need future tech

).

I think probably Berlin, cos of the earlier capture and has everything.
Madrid would be nice, but so late and no cottages yet.
Yep after looking again, Berlin would be just perfect if set up early.

pigswill · Oct 15, 2014

With existing HAs Cuirassier rush likely the way to go. Maybe use GS to bulb philo. Cities need to grow of course. Wipe out Germany and Spain to remove misery.

Quip · Oct 15, 2014

Well, I can see your points, but my quickest dom victory on immortal (1420 AD) was basically one with medieval, and only around the end of the game as I was claiming the last few cities did Curis actually play a role. The way I see it, if we can declare war on the English pretty soon and bribe monte into war, techpace is going to be even slower than it has been currently. Why spend roughly ~10,000 more in beakers to get the same results? Why not use the city capture gold to fund that research and use Curis to finish the game vs. Aztecan Persia? Why act like we're a puny 6 city civ looking to break out when we already have broken out?

That's essentially the same reason for running NE in Barca. There's nothing above a cottage in the city, and I dunno if those cottages will pay off enough in 100 turns, when we could 2-3 GPs in their place. Shwedagon Paya is kinda a crazy idea, but it's basically 1 hammer = 4.5 beakers if we don't have to tech theology, doesn't put GS points in Berlin where we want GEs and maybe a Prophet. To be fair though, at this point, it doesn't make that much of a difference. If we put a meaningful effort into getting the 4-5 cities that don't have the tiles to do anything better to push out a GP, then NE is probably only going to be worth a single GP before the game is out.

Edit: Also why cottages on those non-riverside green hills outside of Berlin? We dun turned a grass hill into a non-riverside plains tile.

lymond · Oct 15, 2014

Yeah, no question Berlin is the best bureau city in short term mainly cause it is set up for that. If we want NE to work at all maybe it is best to chop it out Madrid and farm it for now. And yeah, it would get pure GSs if we want to head straight for Curs. We could whip Library into NE there and chop the rest. I kinda wanted to get MoM in but that may be risky at this stage in another city without forest for it. Parth we may get though so that should help a lot.

Why do we want a Prophet? Shweggie adds nothing for our game. Theology is irrelevant or at least not worth the investment, and we can likely trade for it later if we really want it.

Ofc, there is the question of whether we can get Dom without Astro...it may be likely (that would eliminate the need for Future Tech

). However, our scouting is kinda bad in the SE. Maybe with Paper soon.

(cottages were ghs were a mistake. My mind was spinning around the war and deciding on best caps and stuff. It may have paid off as something started very early, but otherwise not a good idea..and really on good on riverside...I just wasn't thinking)

Not looking at save, but I don't remember Barc having any food.

ShiVvV · Oct 17, 2014

@Lymond-thanks for the granary/halt growth info. Researched it some and found this challenge by Kossin which might also interest others.

Overview

Techs
Wonder Techs
We're only ones with Literature so we have a little time re GLib.
Monty only AI with Aesthetics.
Izzy only AI with Calendar (probably not much of a concern though; her days numbered).
[Churchill and Monty each have marble. Monty, having Aesthetics, is only threat to beating us to Parthenon at moment. We have monopoly on stone at moment although not a big deal currently since wonders we're interested in mostly marble dependent.]

Military Techs
Cyrus has Construction.
Monty has Theology.
We have 97 beakers invested into Const.

1st Question: Churchy will even swap Aesthetics <> Monarchy right now. Do we want to do this ASAP? I don't see a whole lot of utility for Monarchy but is rare to see these beaker for beaker trades w/AI. I suppose we'll need it eventually but can get to Lib w/o it...what do you guys think about making this trade? Wait a turn and see if can get some gold by offering something besides Aesthetics? Everyone else already has Monarchy so might be best to wait to at least get some gold when/if we trade to acquire Monarchy.

2nd Question: I may not get much further than completing CS this set, but what next? Music has been mentioned, as has pursuing MC, Machinery, Const, etc. I'm leaning towards MC after CS just for the forges and then possibly Music. Downside is postponing Music might preclude us getting the GArtist.

Wonders/NatWonders
1. MoM chopped at Salamanaca. 7 forests = 420H of 450H required. Only real 'no brainer' I can see.
2. GLib in Madrid. Lib>GLib>granary>courthouse. 8 or so forests here/can farm and cottage for good hybrid city.
3. Palace in Berlin using forests we have left there. Oxford here eventually.
4. The NatEpic? Two possiblities.

a. Put NE in Berlin after the Palace. Will be a slow build but can mine and use whips of cheap units (axe/spear) into it to complete NE. NE in Berlin would yield 8GE/2GA gpp/turn solely from buildings.

b. Put NE in Madrid after the GLib. Could run 4 scientists here. NE + GLib yielding 28GS/2GA gpp/turn. I favor the NE + GLib in Madrid.

5. Shweggie. IMO the lowest ranking wonder priority. It could be built merely for failgold by slow building in Gondar or Barcelona. Or chopped in Frankfurt, Essen or Hittite if really intending to complete it.
6. Moai? Do we want it? Might pair well with Shweggie in Essen. A shrine in Barca would be a nice shiny thing to have someday. Won't have it if we don't try for it though.
7. HerEpic? I think Adis Ababa, Madrid, or Lymond's proposed city site in that order. Lalibella I just don't think has enough food/production.
8. Complete Parthenon as is.

The NE decision rides on whether we want to couple it with the GLib. NE in Berlin would favor GE production and we have the food to run 2 scientists here later. GP pollution a problem with NE in Berlin though...plus, will be no forests left after building Palace here so the NE would be delayed somewhat. NE in Berlin also might completely swamp GP production from any other cities.

NE + GLib in Madrid may be best option. Not a lot of food here but enough to run 4 scientists and reduced gpp pollution problem versus NE in Berlin.

Various and Sundries
1. Our GS? Bulb Philo?, Academy in Berlin? start GA? or save for future Edu bulb. I favor Academy in Berlin.
2. Our GG? Settle in our HE city which could be any of the three mentioned above.
3. Lymond-did the scout notice anything scary in Churchill's lands? I plan on sending the scout towards Cyrus/Monty.
4. Religion. I plan on not adopting any, even if asked by AI. Seems to pose more risk than benefit just now.
5. At least 3 workers will head to Madrid for chopping duty.
6. Am very worried about avoiding strike. May impact wonder building. Will be a juggling act between running wealth, whipping courthouses, checking trade screen. It may behoove us to put up a market in AA and Berlin although those damn things so expensive.
7. I might actually use the spy to steal gold from Bismark on first turn of this set--62 gold I think. City revolt probably won't be needed to kill him.
8. 10 turn peace with Izzy--gives time to go check out that barb city near Churchill's lands to see if can raze it for cash.
9. Workers will improve calendar resources (dyes! for commerce esp.), cottage up Berlin.
10. Two new cities I'd like us to get settled. A city 2N of Stuttgart to claim a gold and the clam. And the city Lymond mentioned, the 'iron/incense/steal corn from Hittite' city. Not even sure how badly this will affect our economy so may not happen this set but would like to get done soonish.
11. @Lymond-just so I'm sure of your intention for Hittite. I max food for my first turn of set. Then take off 'avoid growth' on next turn?
12. Our front with Cyrus is a bit concerning. We have like, two warriors in the area and he has construction. Don't laugh too loud if I build walls in AA and some units down here.

Turnset Goals
1. Auf wiedersehen, Biz. If I can't conquer Biz I'll retire :cry:

. Raze Stuttgart; to be relocated 2N eventually.
2. Avoid strike somehow.
3. Find Izzy's 2nd city--that fogged area southwest of Cordoba I suppose. Have forces positioned for DoW vs Izzy when deal expires.

Advice/input needed on the following
1. Where to put GLib. My intention is Madrid.
2. Where to put NE. Again, I intend to put in Madrid after GLib.
3. Chop palace now in Berlin? I intend to use GS for Academy here also instead of bulbing Philo.
4. Heroic Epic? I'm just not sure about this one. I think Madrid is the strongest option but Madrid's queue kinda full. AA is ok but so little food. Then there's Lymond's city we have yet to even settle. Speed not as important here so will probably put hammers into it in AA.

You guys have really done a great job with this game so far and I'll try to avoid screwing it up. Will give some time for further comment and play in a day or so. Will pause if anything major happens and ask for input.

Quip · Oct 17, 2014

@lymond We want a Great Prophet cause we've got Judaism holy city and like 15 cities with it. That's part of the reason I like NE there, because then we can run extra priests to give us better chances of getting that 3 GP golden age.

I still like HE for Lailabela, just because I don't think we want it in any of our commerce cities and once it gets irrigated/workshopped it'll be one of our better pure hammer cities. I believe total commerce is something like 6 with TRs, and it doesn't have much GP potential, so we'll at the very least get maximum benefit. Madrid will be a strong city but we're likely going to want to spend that population on cottages and building research/wealth multipliers.

Otherwise, I like Glib in Madrid, but I dunno about Madrid as NE. Are extra GSes really all that valuable? We should really be considering more GAs than bulbs or Academies here because of how wide the empire is. Pairing it with the Glib might mean more GSes that we can burn.

We might want to slowbuild palace, as it's sure to drive up maintenance costs. It'll recoup that with Bureau but we're still a ways off of that.

ShiVvV · Oct 17, 2014

OK, trying to summarize input here. Correct me if mistaken.

1. Great Library in Madrid

ShiVvV-yes
Quip-yes
Lymond-yesish? or GLib in Berlin

2. MoM in Salamanaca

ShiVvV-yes
all opposed?

3. NatEpic

ShiVvV-in Madrid w/GLib
Quip-in Barcelona
Lymond-in Berlin

4. Heroic Epic

ShiVvV-no strong opinion-AA, LymondCity, Lalibella
Quip-Lalibella
Lymond-AA or LymondCity

5. Shwegadon Paya

Quip-chop in Berlin? or any city with enough forests except Madrid? (not sure where you prefer Q.)
ShiVvV-Essen with Moai, or Frankfurt, or Hittite
Lymond-feels Shweggie not worth it

6. Our GScientist

ShiVvV-academy in Berlin
Quip-trigger GA?
Lymond-(not sure what L. wants here)

What do rest of you fellahs think? Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth here just trying to organize. Please correct or clarify any of above that I've misinterpreted.

Edit: I completely forgot to discuss Forbidden Palace. Do we need to start planning this now? Are we big enough?
EditEdit: Should I consider joining NWA? (Neurotic Wonderbuilders Anonymous)

lymond · Oct 17, 2014

I have to look at the game but won't have a chance today but these are my quick thoughts on the above:

Question: Do we have stone? I forget...

General thought: We need to think less about all these wonders and more about a plan off attack, i.e., what and how to research/bulb and get to where we need to be to kill peoples. Some of the thing mentioned above are just distractions and not adding anything.

1) I'm fine with GLid in Madrid. We should pre-chops wherever possible and setup a 3pop Library whip. (I forget if granary was there, but think there was)

2) MoM I'd have to look again. I forget which city is Salamanca and what it has going for it. If going for MoM it needs to be a place we can chop it out fast as it could go any minute. This is why I suggested Madrid originally. MoM would be great but if we can't get it in the next few turns by some means, it is only worth fail gold.

3) If TGL is going in Madrid then I'm for NE in there too

4) LymondCity all the way baby! Lali is very average for HE unless you got it up very early. I think there are better sight for more base hammers like the one I proposed. HE is not super urgent and we can use it for fail gold in other cities.

5) Shweggie - I see absolutely no need to waste hammers on this wonder except for purpose of fail gold. Still see no reason for prophets. I never waste GPs on those if I can except for late game golden ages. Shrines are no big deal and we will likely capture some.

6) Well, I'm assuming with get the Great Artists from Music for GA, so I would not use it for that. The acad in Berlin does pay off much short term since we got such a late GS, but is probably the best move. Or we just hold on to it for now for a bulb or in case we actually do need it for that golden age.

Not concerned about FP at the moment, but we might look at it somewhere maybe in the south like AA if we plan to move palace to Berlin.

Keep in mind that we are going to want as many cities as we can spare on wealth building in the short term.

(Shiv - turn off avoid growth in Hittite next turn or the turn the farm is completed. We might look at whipping a settler out of this city at size 4 for potential HE city, which we can pre-road before hand...maybe get an extra worker or two down south)

Maoi is the very last thing I'm concerned about, especially if we don't have stone. If we have stone - fail gold.

Quip · Oct 17, 2014

Well, SP was an idea for GP points in Berlin and would allow us to use Theocracy without having to invest at all in Theology.

As for plan of attack: I was thinking that we would go basically straight to engineering, which means we'd be looking to form some stacks Churchhill that would probably be like 2 stacks of 3 maces, 2-3 spears/pikes, 9 HAs (We have 18(?) currently) a couple of catapults and then as many Trebs as we can afford. The idea here is that we'll just siege them to death and then it doesn't really matter what we're attacking with.

Although this kills their mobility, knights often don't have the same free reign that we had in our wars with HAs. Trebs are kinda expensive, but at the same time with up to 18 build queues I don't think we'll have to worry too much about keeping ourselves stocked with them. Finally, as I mentioned, it's ~10,000 more beakers to Curis, and it probably would only take us about 40 turns to get through Churchhill with these two stacks.

This method would look like: CS -> Metal Casting -> Machinery (Bulb from GS) -> Construction -> Engineering

Music fits in after CS if (GA still available), but I don't think anything else is worthwhile right now. If we don't build SP we'd probably want to research Theology probably in between MC and Construction, so we can double promote most of the siege and melee units we field.

pigswill · Oct 18, 2014

Lots of talk about wonders and not much talk about recovering the economy, losing cash at 100% wealth we ain't going to research much of anything in the near future.

We currently have less workers than cities, lots of unimproved tiles and people talking about chopping out wonders.

On the other hand we do have a lot of land.....

In terms of future warfare we need to decide if we're going for eng or cuirassiers and adjust research path accordingly.

On the subject of future war I don't see Churchill as a target unless we fancy a HA razefest before he gets to feudalism. Monty is our major threat, he's got a lot of land and tends to be a bit aggressive.

In terms of wonders NE in Berlin, chop Parthenon asap, MoM wherever we can build it quickest. Forget Glib, HE can wait until we're ready to build up our next army.

Quip · Oct 18, 2014

Yeah, but getting churchhill would get us to something like 30 cities, and he still has more land to settle. Monty is Monty, and has a neighbor with a different religion in between us and him. Eventually there will be blood, but as long as we keep up the pace there's little chance he could conquer Persia before we took out the English.

Packers5280 · Oct 18, 2014

Don't forget we are organised, so we can 2 pop whip courthouses. Once we get some courthouses online, that should help the economy. As well as the double gold site, once it has grown. I think we should worry about courthouses first, and then wonders. Unless we want to get failgold from the marble wonders. That may be a good idea. Build the TGL in Berlin while Madrid comes out of revolt, then chop it out in Madrid. Maybe even put some OF from a courthouse whip in Berlin, starting it next turn so we can get the current OF into TGL. As big as our tech lead is, we could get failgold from the wonders.

Schwegie is only useful for failgold. Then it has a purpose.

ShiVvV · Oct 19, 2014

Ok fellahs...turnset is done.

I'm pretty beat so will just post some notes I kept while playing. Will do a proper job tomorrow on report--maybe :lol:

. Football tomorrow but I'll be around if any questions. Like, why the heck did ya do that???

Highlights
1. Biz & Izz are no more.
2. We're running Rep. and Bureau; and we're still pagan
3. CS and Const. are in. A GA popped a turn after I'd set tech to Music so I changed to Const. Cyrus was kinda massing units down south so wanted the Wellies and catapults if he hit us.
4. We have GLib in Madrid, NatEpic in Berlin (working on Palace now), MoM in Salamanaca and Parthenon in Munich (I think Munich?). (I went back n forth on where to put NE, Madrid or Berlin, but felt Berlin better since the food is there and Madrid mostly chopped out after GLib.
5. We have enough espionage vs. Cyrus now to investigate some of his cities and we can see all of his units.
6. Monty built the AP (Hindu). He also finally opened borders with Cyrus so we may get some Hindu missionaries soon.
7. Building HE in Munich for failgold only.
8. Cyrus became pleased with us about two turns ago; good news there.
9. I tried to do some war-bribing but Churchill nor Cyrus were interested; Monty wanted every tech we have to 'help' us take out Izzy.
10. There is a settler i renamed fish/cow which is headed up towards, strangely enough, the fish/cow site that had been a barb city (was 1pop city but our HAs were there after Izzy) on the northeast peninsula. I put another settler in production intending to make a city which will be crap, but can share corn with Madrid, kinda. Its purpose is just to block Churchill. Not sure we want to settle this site but neither did I want that pretty good fish/cow site totally cut off and culture-pressed.
That's the gist of set.

Oh, I renamed our ggmedic because...the evidence was clear

.

The totally unformatted c/p of notes below:

Spoiler :

Roster
5. ShiVvV-played
6. Packers5280-UP
7. pigswill-ON DECK

Wide shot of empire and the save.

lymond · Oct 19, 2014

Hey Shivv - I'm throwing up a save in which I played the same turnset for comparison.

Ideas was to get CS and Music asap and run a GA to switch civics and pump out GSs, while chopping TGL in Madrid (which finished turn after I started GA, but wanted to get into Bureau asap) Palace chopped finished in Berlin.

We are closing in on Nationalism here with second GS coming in next turn to finish Edu bulb. Then tech Compass and use 3rd GS on Liberalism for MT.

(Teching Construction was not a good idea btw) Also, we really don't need those other cities right now.

ShiVvV · Oct 19, 2014

@Lymond
A pretty vivid demonstration of GAage-powered teching comparing the saves.
Draws attention to many of the things I don't do well.
1. Building too many 'weakish' units. In my defense this was a reaction to Cyrus' buildup. But my unit maintenance is >2X yours.
2. I knew we'd need Music, but when that GArtist popped somewhere I switched assuming Music was teched by the unknown AI. I realize the GArtist doesn't necessarily mean Music gone but didn't want to risk it.
3. Not building wealth in enough cities; ties in with point 1.

Did Monty and Cyrus make demands? Noticed the peace treaty and pleased status with both. And it looks like you must have sold them techs too.

Aaaarmy Training, Sir!

Warlord

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Chieftain

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Mycro Junkie

fly (one day)

Chieftain

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Warlord

Chieftain

Warlord

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Chieftain

fly (one day)

Chieftain

Deity

Warlord

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

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