Academic jargon in use in CFCOT

[Gorbles]

Most of my jargon relates to games development, and we don't discuss that much (probably a good thing ). On most other subjects I wouldn't call myself anywhere near educated, so I rely on Google and Wikipedia to back up my assumptions, and I try to provide links wherever possible.

My worst habit is probably putting clarifying points in brackets (so they often look like this, and then I end up writing half a paragraph in them).

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Some senior people at a place I worked at were fond of one bit of 'academic jargon' that really pissed me off whenever they used it-

There was a mission to take a picture in outer space and some executives would refer to the moment of taking the picture as the 'money shot' in meetings with government officials and I cringed and died inside.

 

[aelf]

There's a Civfanatics wiki???

The content seems crappy. I can appreciate a clever dig, but the articles, including mine, seem to consist mostly of random insults and accusations with no basis in reality

I don't even remember who the creator, Bomberman124 or whatever, is.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I don't recognize that name.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I'm really happy I can express myself the way I can on here, and that I'm usually not judged for my language. It feels very freeing. I can just spell out my thoughts best as I can. Obviously yeah I use a lot of jargon from philosophy/cultural sciences/pop culture and so forth, but only when it feels either necessary or enriching.

I couldn't imagine "dumbing down" my language while conversing with friends. I already have to do that at my job. Seems very inauthentic to me.

An ideal type is the imagined form in a pure version of the category of a thing being discussed.

So like in the real world there’s no perfect representation of mental models of things, there’s only the idealized form of the model with which to measure real life things against.

It’s used to compare real life things that are messy against a recognized common thread.

It’s also kind of a meta-idea of how to model things in a social science context in general.

I didn't know Max Weber was so close to Plato w/r/t ideal types and Plato's forms. Weber is a really cool guy though, nice taste my man!

Use of jargon is also not very welcoming. It's cool we have a regular cast of characters but I think expecting everyone that comes through the digital door to be on the same level isn't inclusive.

So what? Learning new words is one of the many joys of life!

 

[MaryKB]

Some senior people at a place I worked that were fond of one bit of 'academic jargon' that really pissed me off whenever they used it-

There was a mission to take a picture in outer space and some executives would refer to the moment of taking the picture as the 'money shot' in meetings with government officials and I cringed and died inside.

That sounds more like a buzz word than jargon? Jargon's like technobabble. But I hate buzz words as much as you do! Oh dear, and I hear it sooo much in my business! "bottom line", "low-hanging fruit", etc etc.

I spent about six years talking directly with customers, and I was trained pretty well not to use jargon, and I feel I'm pretty natural at it now

@yung.carl.jung I wouldn't call it "dumbing down", but rather the opposite. I feel jargon's about trying to make yourself feel superior, by using words other people don't (and shouldn't be expected to) know. It's sort of like "insider talk" ... if you're in that kind of business, you'll know these terms, but someone outside doesn't. If you're talking to people not in your business about something, and you're using insider terms, I feel you're trying to make yourself look smarter than you really are, and are trying to exclude people from conversation. It's not about dumbing down, but rather simply being respectful.

Consider, English probably isn't your native language, right? But you speak that here to communicate with people who mostly don't speak German or French, etc

 

[Phrossack]

I avoid jargon whenever I can, and even avoid most big or overly Latin/Greek/French words. I find they usually get in the way of a clear point and come across as a claim that the speaker is better or smarter.

That said, once I get into discussing certain things like tanks, I can start flinging acronyms like confetti at a parade

 

[Gori the Grey]

That the arbitrary nature of the relation between Sr and Sd has been indisputably established (the field of phenomenal reality being rendered signifiable by and through a differential system of Srs) does not bring as a linguistic entailment that so-called synonymic Srs equivalently partition the field of Sds. Quite the opposite. It is the virtue of that, now axiomatic, principle to disclose that each Sr must of necessity (constituted as it is by nothing other than its difference from all other Sr) designate a unique reference.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That sounds more like a buzz word than jargon? Jargon's like technobabble. But I hate buzz words as much as you do! Oh dear, and I hear it sooo much in my business! "bottom line", "low-hanging fruit", etc etc.

I spent about six years talking directly with customers, and I was trained pretty well not to use jargon, and I feel I'm pretty natural at it now

@yung.carl.jung I wouldn't call it "dumbing down", but rather the opposite. I feel jargon's about trying to make yourself feel superior, by using words other people don't (and shouldn't be expected to) know. It's sort of like "insider talk" ... if you're in that kind of business, you'll know these terms, but someone outside doesn't. If you're talking to people not in your business about something, and you're using insider terms, I feel you're trying to make yourself look smarter than you really are, and are trying to exclude people from conversation. It's not about dumbing down, but rather simply being respectful.

Consider, English probably isn't your native language, right? But you speak that here to communicate with people who mostly don't speak German or French, etc

Buzzwords are not really the issue I had with that. The phrase 'money shot' is a term in pornography and I felt wasn't really an appropriate descriptor in a formal setting. Maybe I'm a prude.

 

[Synobun]

Buzzwords are not really the issue I had with that. The phrase 'money shot' is a term in pornography and I felt wasn't really an appropriate descriptor in a formal setting. Maybe I'm a prude.

Do you find that you feel strange feelings when ankles are exposed?

 

[MaryKB]

Oh dear, I wasn't aware of that. I always though "money shot" is like one picture or scene you film that's really expensive and important, that you need to get right.

 

[Synobun]

Oh dear, I wasn't aware of that. I always though "money shot" is like one picture or scene you film that's really expensive and important, that you need to get right.

Well...

... that's still right.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Is it where they roll around and have sex in a giant pile of coins?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Oh dear, I wasn't aware of that. I always though "money shot" is like one picture or scene you film that's really expensive and important, that you need to get right.

To be fair, that's exactly how he was using the term. He didn't mean anything vulgar, it's just that the specific word he chose has a connotation. Almost as important as the connotation is that he knows it has a connotation. He was trying to be funny.

But no one seemed offended so I admit maybe I'm just a prude.

 

[MaryKB]

Oh I see ... well sorry that originally went right over my head, lol!

I still don't feel that's jargon though. I think jargon would be like if you're constantly talking in space industry terms that no one outside is aware of, and then sort of scoffing at us for our philistine ways.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

That sounds more like a buzz word than jargon? Jargon's like technobabble. But I hate buzz words as much as you do! Oh dear, and I hear it sooo much in my business! "bottom line", "low-hanging fruit", etc etc.

I spent about six years talking directly with customers, and I was trained pretty well not to use jargon, and I feel I'm pretty natural at it now

@yung.carl.jung I wouldn't call it "dumbing down", but rather the opposite. I feel jargon's about trying to make yourself feel superior, by using words other people don't (and shouldn't be expected to) know. It's sort of like "insider talk" ... if you're in that kind of business, you'll know these terms, but someone outside doesn't. If you're talking to people not in your business about something, and you're using insider terms, I feel you're trying to make yourself look smarter than you really are, and are trying to exclude people from conversation. It's not about dumbing down, but rather simply being respectful.

Consider, English probably isn't your native language, right? But you speak that here to communicate with people who mostly don't speak German or French, etc

where is the difference between "jargon" and prose? I see none, really, it's a pretty arbitrary distinction. should I stop saying words which I might find evocative, beautiful, just so that some people can better understand me? that kinda goes against everything I believe in.

sure, we could have a universal language which everyone understands, that is absolutely simple and easily understandable. but it's also not open for interpretation, doesn't carry nuance etc. just seems so sad to me.

also, I think talking about words that "others aren't supposed to know" doesn't ring a bell with me.. at all. there is not a single word in the world I'm not supposed to know, that I don't want to know, I'm grateful for every new one.

yeah, maybe Joyce or Nabokov or someone else would have had more popular books, or a bigger base of readers, had they used clearly intelligible and simple language for their books. but then they'd lose their intricacy.

fact is, there just are some things you cannot convey without specific words, I mean that's why they exist after all. so changing the word, to something simpler, also changes the meaning.

your last point is one I would also like to use for my own argument. I often simply use German words in place of English counterparts that don't do them justice, and then explain the difference in meaning in my post. sure, I could just substitute the German word, but I feel like someone has a tangible benefit there, someone might actually appreciate knowing about the differences between these languages and words. I get equally excited whenever @Kyriakos explains some term in ancient greek, or @Hrothbern in dutch, because the way we speak ultimate shapes and reflects the way we think.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

sure, we could have a universal language which everyone understands, that is absolutely simple and easily understandable.

They tried.

 

[Synobun]

where is the difference between "jargon" and prose? I see none, really, it's a pretty arbitrary distinction. should I stop saying words which I might find evocative, beautiful, just so that some people can better understand me? that kinda goes against everything I believe in.

sure, we could have a universal language which everyone understands, that is absolutely simple and easily understandable. but it's also not open for interpretation, doesn't carry nuance etc. just seems so sad to me.

also, I think talking about words that "others aren't supposed to know" doesn't ring a bell with me.. at all. there is not a single word in the world I'm not supposed to know, that I don't want to know, I'm grateful for every new one.

yeah, maybe Joyce or Nabokov or someone else would have had more popular books, or a bigger base of readers, had they used clearly intelligible and simple language for their books. but then they'd lose their intricacy.

fact is, there just are some things you cannot convey without specific words, I mean that's why they exist after all. so changing the word, to something simpler, also changes the meaning.

your last point is one I would also like to use for my own argument. I often simply use German words in place of English counterparts that don't do them justice, and then explain the difference in meaning in my post. sure, I could just substitute the German word, but I feel like someone has a tangible benefit there, someone might actually appreciate knowing about the differences between these languages and words. I get equally excited whenever @Kyriakos explains some term in ancient greek, or @Hrothbern in dutch, because the way we speak ultimate shapes and reflects the way we think.

Jargon is language specific to your niche that is inaccessible to outsiders. Useful for within the niche, but often elitist outside of it.

 

[MaryKB]

Right, jargon isn't about eloquent words, it's more like insider code. Sometimes industries have very technical terms that don't mean anything to people outside those industries, and I'd say if you use those in your common speech you're being deliberately rude.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

They tried.

yeah, that is what I was hinting at.

Jargon is language specific to your niche that is inaccessible to outsiders. Useful for within the niche, but often elitist outside of it.

what I was trying to say is: what might for one excentric author be his normal, authentic way to talk might for someone else be incomprehensible. is there a meaningful difference between someone using scientific jargon and someone using an old adjective from the 1700s that barely anyone knows?

what is the difference between a heavily technical description using jargon in, say, Gravity's Rainbow (which for the authot is certainly prose) and some french romanticist author writing purple prose? they're just modes of expression with the tools we have at hand. excluding those tools because they're not widely known nor accessible feels wrong to me

some technical terms are to me utterly beautiful, for example the idea of synchronicity, or Planck's law, or entropy. I don't just find them phonetically interesting. they're picturesque and evocative, even emotionally loaded. entropy leads to the head death of the universe, after all. sure, I could maybe find a way to describe the same thing with other words, but then I wouldn't be concise nor direct, I would be doing verbal gymnastics.

in the end what it boils down to is that words represent ideas, and no matter how similair some words or phrases might look, they're meaningfully different. excluding certain words because they're difficult is absolutely no different than excluding certain ideas for their difficulty, and that feels wrong to me. I hope I could express myself clearly, I rather feel that I'm not getting my point across well, even without using any jargon

Right, jargon isn't about eloquent words, it's more like insider code. Sometimes industries have very technical terms that don't mean anything to people outside those industries, and I'd say if you use those in your common speech you're being deliberately rude.

I mean I can certainly understand that. I wouldn't want people constantly using acronyms in every day conversation either, that's just being purposefully asinine. luckily, I don't really know anyone who does this.

similiarly, I wouldn't really go all out when I'm doing small talk, you want your language to be concise and understandable. but I feel like we're digressing from the topic at hand into more every-day applications of it. it's pretty common sense I feel to not use jargon when talking to your make-up artist or kids or Ricky from the corner store.