Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
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- Apr 3, 2005
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- 5,255
Well I know about the selling to them. You can sell it for 200+ lump sum early on which is kinda silly that it's considered meta at this point
[NFP] AI crazy about Science
- Thread starter Infixo
- Start date
reddishrecue
Some dude on civfans
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
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- 6,213
I have a suggestion, choosing Germany could help you kill barbarians better than other civilizations.
Aristos
Lightseeker
Indeed. Which also shows you how poorly coded the diplo AI is. In my case, they gift me their OBs for 1 coin so I can pinpoint their spammed SPs and destroy them a piacere.
Going to try it out and see how they perform.As it was found out, these three lines were modified/added in the April patch in the Victories.xml file and they gimp the AI the worst:
The simplest change to bring AI back to what it was before the patch would be to delete the 0 in the first line (150 becomes 15) and to delete the second and third line entirely.
If you want to bring up AI science yields gradually in later eras, so that more AIs would attempt a SV, I added three more lines:
<Row ListType="RenaissanceYields" Item="YIELD_SCIENCE" Value="25"/>
<Row ListType="IndustrialYields" Item="YIELD_SCIENCE" Value="50"/>
<Row ListType="ModernYields" Item="YIELD_SCIENCE" Value="100"/>
That gave quite a nice result. I'm just uploading the whole modified Victories.xml file which includes these extended modifications as well, in case this makes things easier.
My bad, I was referring to encampment district for AI, who spam them. Figure someone might have edit a couple of lines of code to stop them from spamming encampments.
If you can find an equivalent line that says "district_encampment" and "favoured=yes" change the yes to a no. I'm not a coder or a modder, but I assume just by logical inference that such a line ought to be in there somewhere.
Linklite
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2019
- Messages
- 1,682
You're famous, Harry...
Civilization 6’s AI has been going mad for science thanks to a few lines of code
Moderator Action: Updated broken article link. ~ LK
Civilization 6’s AI has been going mad for science thanks to a few lines of code
Moderator Action: Updated broken article link. ~ LK
Last edited by a moderator:
Minou
King
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2013
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- 822
I am curious about this, currently playing a game with lots of “fun modes” (Heroes, Corporations, Secret Socities) and I have not seen many Campus at all. I conquered Mali early and they had two Commercial Hub only, Greece had no districts at all, England had two Holy Sites and one Campus, Canada had two Holy Sites, a Theater Square, and an Entertainment Complex, Carthage one Campus and one Harbor, and Sumerian two Campus and one Encampment.
That’s a pretty good mix with no obvious Campus bias so I wonder if they patched this, or maybe if turning on the special modes changes preferences?
That’s a pretty good mix with no obvious Campus bias so I wonder if they patched this, or maybe if turning on the special modes changes preferences?
Linklite
Emperor
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They also said that TDs were favoured, but there was an entirenthread about how they weren't being built. The only thing I can say is that they do have crazy science (in comparison to other yields, including cukture).
DizzKneeLand33
Fall from Heaven 2 still rocks
From what I've been told the Corporations mode is completely broken from an AI balance standpoint, so that could have something to do with it (the other's I'm not sure). Changing the numbers (and a few others) has resulted in the AI (on Immortal) sending *waves* of troops during war and/or emergencies. It's becoming the game I always wanted it to be (in my own personal opinion).
The science bias isn't *just* about science, but also about what they cannot support/build because of too much science.
Level, starting civs, proximity, game speed, all of these matter when looking at the results, so it's always a moving target when observing.
The science bias isn't *just* about science, but also about what they cannot support/build because of too much science.
Level, starting civs, proximity, game speed, all of these matter when looking at the results, so it's always a moving target when observing.
These are great news. Good to hear that. Tell us, are you using infixo's Real Strategy AI too? Or just those changes already mencioned?
From the article: "We reached out to Firaxis for comment, but at the time of writing have not heard back."
Has anyone who is actually involved in developing this game made any comment on this anywhere? Acknowledged this is an issue? Or said they don't think it's an issue and this is actually what they intended?
DizzKneeLand33
Fall from Heaven 2 still rocks
I am not currently using Infixo's mod just so that the results don't conflict with one another. That said, it's a great mod and will use it again at some point (now that I have my changes in my own mod instead of changing the source code, this will be easier to facilitate).
Kotofei
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2020
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- 139
I commented out that line too, and yup, the AI doesn't build many TD's anymore. Now it goes ape for industrial zones. It still builds plenty of campuses.
I see that Culture isn't listed anyway as a favored yield, and in fact in the Classical Era is the only yield NOT favored. I've half a mind just to comment out all the ClassicalYields and see how the AI fends for itself.
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
You know what's wild? They're actually using green districts to boost I adjacencies. Wish I'd have seen shotted it but Ethiopia had an IZ in an aqueduct triangle with a dam next to it in a recent game. Might be one of those room full of monkeys and typewriters thing but still pretty cool.
Minou
King
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- Apr 19, 2013
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- 822
Ah, I think I missed one important point here. If the big swing to favoring science only starts in the Classical Era, that probably explains why I was noticing lots of non-Campus districts. The AIs must value culture more in the Ancient Era because they seem to really strongly prefer Monuments as one of their first builds in most cities. That's a pretty good call IMO. It feels like they start out pretty well with early Monuments to speed Political Philosophy and a decent mix of Warrior/Archer/Chariots in the Ancient Era and then just kind of fall off the map by the time the Classical Era is over. Starting to focus on Campus in the Classical Era is actually a pretty sound strategy but I guess it falls flat when they run out of gold and/or have no military.
Do they sell stuff to each other? I feel like I only get a small fraction of my gold from Commercial Hubs and Harbors, with much more coming from selling resources, pillaging, harvesting Crabs/Copper/Maize, and eventually Merchant Confederation.
Do they sell stuff to each other? I feel like I only get a small fraction of my gold from Commercial Hubs and Harbors, with much more coming from selling resources, pillaging, harvesting Crabs/Copper/Maize, and eventually Merchant Confederation.
Bitterman
Warlord
I just got back after a big hiatus and didn't realize Real strategy was activated.
Man what a blast. Granted I play with mods that bust AI's bonuses scaling per era but I think yesterday was the first time I lost my capital against an AI in +1000 hours. Greece sent like 1545632 hoplites and peltaste (modded UU) and destroyed me by directly attacking my city and ignoring defenders. If it weren't because I was Vietnam and had that +5 CS in forests/jungles I would've been done. And then later Australia was +10 techs above me and surprised DOWed me to raze one of my other cities. I just made a comeback recently but man reconquering was fun.
I don't know if was Infixo with RS or Firaxis with last patch but I recall AI being a lot dumber and less resolutive attacking cities. They even tried to use catapults once!
Man what a blast. Granted I play with mods that bust AI's bonuses scaling per era but I think yesterday was the first time I lost my capital against an AI in +1000 hours. Greece sent like 1545632 hoplites and peltaste (modded UU) and destroyed me by directly attacking my city and ignoring defenders. If it weren't because I was Vietnam and had that +5 CS in forests/jungles I would've been done. And then later Australia was +10 techs above me and surprised DOWed me to raze one of my other cities. I just made a comeback recently but man reconquering was fun.
I don't know if was Infixo with RS or Firaxis with last patch but I recall AI being a lot dumber and less resolutive attacking cities. They even tried to use catapults once!
MrRadar
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2014
- Messages
- 2,215
I tested one game with increased Culture bias, replaced Science by Culture in a few places over the eras. The results were nothing to write home about. AI had more culture and advanced governments faster, but Teddy scored a SV on T328. The same old story of avoiding Plastics-Nanotechnology line.
Then I realized that I've never tested the settings with just the 0 removed, as if it was indeed a typo, so now I've tested just that - Classical science 150->15, and I've left classical campus and TD as AI favorites. And it seems that was enough to bring back the AI to that level of reason it had before +150 science.
Below are some screenshots from the end game period.
Teddy was rocking the world although this optimistic forecast did not hold:
Spoiler :
Quite a few AIs were approaching a DV condition...
Spoiler :
There were respectable yields across the board, quite a few planes, and not far too many GDRs:
Spoiler :
Freddy even made a valiant last minute conversion effort, bringing his converts from 3/9 to 5/9 (9 should be 8, I guess, as the human spectator is also counted here. But how then about completing a RV then? I guess, AI can't win a RV in games, observed with this mod?):
Spoiler :
And again, the same general aversion for Plastics-Nanotech line. But almost all civs were trying to go to space - probably the most active participation in a SV I've seen in all my tests.
And after the Exoplanet Expeditions launched, nobody built a single laser project (though I'd listed them as favorites). AI just builds all kind of nonsense like endless nuclear subs, machine guns, AT, nukes and such, but not a single laser, despite having plenty of aluminium this time. So Freddy won Diplomacy on T341.
To summarize all that, 150 indeed very much looks like a typo, the intended value was most certainly 15.
Slapping a blanket classical priority for campuses and TD for all AI across the board probably helps the AI to get nicer yields, but the end result is still the same - AI hasn't got the slightest idea what to do with them.
I guess, quite a few bias lines in that spot may be deleted or added, AI victory times on Deity will still be around T330-360.
AI should have its decision trees revised and given some focus. However, I don't believe FXS will do this, as making Civ 6 just a builder's game was probably their intention all along. But they could patch out that 0 from 150, as console players are indeed screwed atm.
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