[NFP] AI crazy about Science

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Infixo, Jun 19, 2021.

  1. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    @MrRadar The Culture Victory works differently than SV. Meaning - you need a different yield. For SV you need Science and virtually only science, which comes mostly from Campuses. This is VERY easy for AI to go for.
    For CV you don't actually need Culture - you need Tourism. Culture in fact is needed to defend against CV. And Tourism comes from different places, which AI doesn't handle well... maybe except Wonders. You can easily force AI to build wonders.
    AI has troubles building Theater Squares and then activating GWAMs. Lots of them wandering around. Getting CV through the usage of relics - probably not possible atm because it needs cross-coordination with Faith and Religion. Tricky.
    In Real Strategy whenever a civ goes for CV, the mod boosts desire for Tourism, Wonders and Great Works. Partially Culture too. The AI can achieve CV this way but it is slower than SV usually.
     
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  2. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Yes, I understand that. AI's best shot for a CV probably comes from spamming Rockbands, so those who have a lot of faith have advantage. The only instances I saw AI to win or even approach a CV was through a spam of very lucky and successful Rockbands. But AI also is very keen to use Music Censorship, so Rockbands have a limited window.
    No, I thought more Culture would bring them to advanced governments faster, as they tend to stagnate with T1 governments for far too long, then they usually go Fascism and then they pick something from T4 at the very end. But not much use from that, as there's still that wasting of 30-50 turns while they avoid Nanotech. Do you have some idea, what could be the reason for this? Plastics seems to be the first tech that is kinda cursed for the AI - some will go as far as Future Tech before they start on Plastics.
     
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  3. Kotofei

    Kotofei Chieftain

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    @MrRadar I just finished running some similar experiments myself. tl;dr, same conclusions as you. I can nudge the AI toward/away from certain behaviors, but, yeah, it seems hard-coded to throw an interception at the start of the 4th quarter, then fumble the kickoff on its own 20 yard line.

    I made a few "personal taste" changes to the Classical section to make the game a little more interesting, but it doesn't change anything seriously.
     
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  4. DizzKneeLand33

    DizzKneeLand33 Fall from Heaven 2 still rocks

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    Has anyone had success with programming the AI to have more desire for conquest? I mean serious conquest, not just taking a couple cities. And, does it even declare Formal Wars at this point? I put in an AI favored item for formal wars (at 250 value) and surprise wars (at 25) just to see if there will be more aggression longer term in the game. Don't really know if it will do anything at all, here's to hoping!
     
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  5. aieeegrunt

    aieeegrunt King

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    The AI is ridiculous passive. I can have two archers and a warrior, border on a Trajan who hates and regularly denounces me because reasons with multiple legions visible and he does nothing
     
  6. Heyesey

    Heyesey Chieftain

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    (They just plain don't like you.)
     
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  7. aieeegrunt

    aieeegrunt King

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    or they like me too much?
     
  8. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    I think the devs saw people teaching how to play civilization simply by emphasizing on research before. Seems to me that the devs are teaching the Ai to do their research. Players too can learn from this because they have to stay ahead in technology so that they won't stay behind. Its going to get hard for the noobs but that's why there's lower ranking AI for them so they can learn their research and eventually find a way to victory.
     
  9. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Inspired by the above, I thought I'd do another test with a bit more emphasis on science. But, I'm afraid, I've made a typo of my own. Not sure what's happened here, I must've passed out on the keyboard while editing the Victories.xml file... or an elephant (which, for the record, I don't own) sat on the "0" key:


    The result was T306 (Deity AI, standard speed size, no modes, GS rules, lasers projects listed as favorites) Kongo SV:
    Spoiler :


    Although that's a noticeably faster AI finish time, still not sub t300. We'll still need a bit more emphasis on science, I'm afraid.
    ;)
     
  10. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Note that there is a probability that this kind of high value is replaced by a default internal value during the game's initialization.
     
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  11. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    What could be that default value?

    Yes, I understand that the impact of adding just one 0 there has much bigger effect than all the subsequent 0s, however many. You can't build more than 1 campus per city, after all, so more zeros don't do or matter much.
    But the general situation resembled to what's happening now - less units, less wars, less religious units.
    And there was a curious anomaly - Norway went for Plastics-Nanotech line first thing, but they never researched Rocketry. They knew how to launch to Mars, but had no spaceports, nor sattelites or Moon landing knowledge. They alone.

    And AI is really impotent against barbs. Germany settled a Paititi city. A camp was next door, permanently triggered. So barbs razed the city. After some time, Germany resettled it. Barbs razed it again. Only the third settlement was a charm and survived. City states go after barb encampments with a vengeance, but AI civs seem to completely ignore them. Would it be so difficult to give the AI civs the behaviour towards barbs that City states have?
     
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  12. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    can't say without the source code, for civ5 this kind of value had a maximum of 32767, and the default value was usually the initial value in the DB from the base game (at release, unsure, but I think it was not updated with balance patches)

    also no idea if setting a value > max will use max or default.
     
  13. Kotofei

    Kotofei Chieftain

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    This looks like a fluke. No other AI has launched the Mars Colony at T300, and those science yields are high but not outrageous, considering it's past T300.

    I ran a similar test, trying to make the AI a yield powerhouse. tl;dr I could make the AI put big numbers on the yield ribbon, but can't change behavior.

    Edit:Yields aren't the problem. The AI usually beats me to Smart Materials. It's all the awful decisions it makes that you already observed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  14. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    or go overflow.
     
  15. Tuvok694

    Tuvok694 Civ6 addict

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    "AI crazy about science" - I can absolutely confirm that. I am playing on level immortal or emperor (mostly unsuccessful). In the last few days I started about 20 games as Shaka and I could not win any of them. I tried to use Shaka's special abilities by proritizing military. Always when I thought, my troops were stromg enough to attack a neighbor civ, they had fewer but way more modern units, and I could not conquer any cities. When I had swordsmen and archers, they had men-at-arms and crossbows. When I had men-at-arms, impis, crossbows and trebuchets, they had musketmen, field cannons AND renaissance walls.
     
  16. Warmoonger

    Warmoonger Chieftain

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    Just want to ask about there being two victories.xml.

    There is one in configuration -> data and one in gameplay -> data. I edited the one in gameplay - is that correct?

    Please could someone explain why this file occurs in two places.
     
  17. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am. Moderator

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    The Victories.xml in the "..\Configuration\Data\" folder is only for the game Advanced Setup screen, where you can toggle the individual victory conditions on or off. The Victories.xml in the "..\Gameplay\Data\" deals with the actual mechanics of the victory conditions in-game. There's nothing in the former xml file other than attaching names and descriptions to the victory conditions on the setup screen. Depending on what you are changing, the latter xml is the one you'll want to look at.
     
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