[NFP] AI crazy about Science

[MrRadar]

Not sure if it helps, but JNR (Steam name, not sure if active here) has done a mod changing deforestation:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1868147338&searchtext=deforestation

Following the mods description I don't think that the changes made would be possible without having access to the formula, but I'm no modder

Thanks for the mod reference, @Pfeffersack, the description looked promising, so I ran a test game with it
The mod aims to introduce more deforestation stages and make the effects more severe. So I ran the game with no other changes, unchanged victories.xml and Expansion2_victories.xml files, the only gameplay change was this Deforestation mod.

And as soon as I noticed that industrial pollution has started, I was greeted with this screen - 100% deforestation factor right of the bat, up from 0%, t205:

Spoiler :

But then, t292, it goes down to 75%:

Spoiler :

the world has already sunk, btw:

And to 50% t320:

Spoiler :

So I wasn't dreaming or imagining things that time, they did screw up the Deforestation formula in such a way that it goes in reverse now. And it is not exposed, as the mod author, apparently, could only tweak the modifier values.

It was after the update 1.0.1.501 - first update of the NFP - what a disaster pack this turned out to be...

Btw., fun fact: I could not believe my eyes when each and every AI went for Nanotechnology and Mars mission after the Lunar Landing.
And then I realised what was the reason - the random end of the tech tree, the Future era, put Smart Materials behind Nanotechnology, with Nt as a prerequisite. Still, timing wise, nothing impressive: Gilga won SV t331, with 2 Lagrange lasers and 3 ly/t speed, as he did not have more aluminium.

 

[nzcamel]

Anyone wondering why AI is mostly focused on science for the last... let's say... half-a-year?
It is because of this line, added in Victories.xml file with September 2020 patch:
<Row ListType="ClassicalYields" Item="YIELD_SCIENCE" Value="150"/>
It increases the internal value of science yield by 150% and this stays for the entire game. It overshadows other yields, like Gold or Faith. AI almost stopped building Commercial Hubs. No more missionary carpets. And poor Great People are wandering around not even in Russia (they always did so in Peter's empire) but basically in every civ - because there are not enough Theater Squares to put their Great Works into.
Change this value to a reasonable 30-50 if you want to have a bit more diverse game.

I'm not the kind of person who has the ability to be messing around with the code in my game, so is there a mod that fixes this?
Sorry if this has already been covered in this thread, but I haven't read it all yet.

 

[MrRadar]

I'm not the kind of person who has the ability to be messing around with the code in my game, so is there a mod that fixes this?
Sorry if this has already been covered in this thread, but I haven't read it all yet.

I saw one in the Steam Workshop, titled 'April AI Science changes reverted'

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Iis there a mod that fixes this?

As stated above: April AI Science changes reverted

 

[vorlon_mi]

As stated above: April AI Science changes reverted

Thanks for the link. Now I'm torn -- I still have some Steam Achievements to get in Civ 6, so I'm reluctant to start installing mods. On the other hand, I would really like to fix this bug/typo so that I can go for my favorite victory type, Science Victory. Will installing this fix block me from getting Steam Achievements?

 

[kaspergm]

Thanks for the link. Now I'm torn -- I still have some Steam Achievements to get in Civ 6, so I'm reluctant to start installing mods. On the other hand, I would really like to fix this bug/typo so that I can go for my favorite victory type, Science Victory. Will installing this fix block me from getting Steam Achievements?

You can use any mod you want and still earn steam achievements when playing Civ6. It was only in Civ5 that using mods blocked you from earning achievements.

 

[nzcamel]

Thanks for the link. Now I'm torn -- I still have some Steam Achievements to get in Civ 6, so I'm reluctant to start installing mods. On the other hand, I would really like to fix this bug/typo so that I can go for my favorite victory type, Science Victory. Will installing this fix block me from getting Steam Achievements?

You can use any mod you want and still earn steam achievements when playing Civ6. It was only in Civ5 that using mods blocked you from earning achievements.

I'd like to see a middle path on that in Civ 7. Mods that make cosmetic/practical changes to the game like UI mods; or make it harder should still allow steam achievements. Mods that change the game play in ways that can make it easier shouldn't. Just my 5 cents

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Well, 5 cents is kind of like 2 cents after inflation these days.

 

[Gedemon]

I'd like to see a middle path on that in Civ 7. Mods that make cosmetic/practical changes to the game like UI mods; or make it harder should still allow steam achievements. Mods that change the game play in ways that can make it easier shouldn't. Just my 5 cents

That's not a bad idea, but technically impossible, it would require the modder to honestly tag his mod as "disabling achievements".

 

[nzcamel]

That's not a bad idea, but technically impossible, it would require the modder to honestly tag his mod as "disabling achievements".

Which wouldn't make their mod popular at all...

 

[Bibor]

Hi there, sorry for the necro, but for me this is a relevant topic since I'm working on perfecting sub-200 science runs.

It might interest you that manually tweaking the XML file from 150 to 50 also had the effect of the AI *not* dumping all their envoys into science city states (which was quite annoying), but rather making them again focus on a city state of their choice (which migth still result in a high envoy count, but not an insurmountable one).

 

[Bostock]

Since we're necroing...

I think simply not having mods block achievements - the Civ 6 way - was the right call. I mean, there's no practical way to block cooked starts, and those can have a stronger achievement-easing effect as most mods.

And in any case, achievements aren't really a competitive area like multiplayer is, so if you really want to use some "give me all the achievements for free in a button press" mod... you do you.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Since we're necroing...

I think simply not having mods block achievements - the Civ 6 way - was the right call. I mean, there's no practical way to block cooked starts, and those can have a stronger achievement-easing effect as most mods.

And in any case, achievements aren't really a competitive area like multiplayer is, so if you really want to use some "give me all the achievements for free in a button press" mod... you do you.

Civ games naturally lend themselves to save scumming. That alone makes achievements meaningless

 

[Tuvok694]

Recently I tried to play as Korea about a dozen times on level "immortal" but could not win a single game. Had to give up about half of the games due to massive barbarian invasions or early AI aggression. Otherwise I tried to settle the first three cities as quickly as possible and build a seowon in these cities as fast as possible. But when I reached the middle ages I was always last place in science with at least 10 techs behind the leading AI civs. So I must have done something fundamentally wrong because science should be the great strength of Korea. (Of course the reason for this is most likely that I am just a very very bad player, but nevertheless I found it remarkable that I could not even keep up with the AI as Korea.)
And by the way, I still cannot understand the people who complain about "weak AI" in Civ6, I find them very strong.

 

[Alaindor]

I believe you should persevere. Being 10 techs behind the AI in Medieval is no big deal in higher levels, if you do it right you will catch up and overtake later.

 

[reddishrecue]

Recently I tried to play as Korea about a dozen times on level "immortal" but could not win a single game. Had to give up about half of the games due to massive barbarian invasions or early AI aggression. Otherwise I tried to settle the first three cities as quickly as possible and build a seowon in these cities as fast as possible. But when I reached the middle ages I was always last place in science with at least 10 techs behind the leading AI civs. So I must have done something fundamentally wrong because science should be the great strength of Korea. (Of course the reason for this is most likely that I am just a very very bad player, but nevertheless I found it remarkable that I could not even keep up with the AI as Korea.)
And by the way, I still cannot understand the people who complain about "weak AI" in Civ6, I find them very strong.

Same here. The AI is like this to me in civ 4 and maybe in civ 5 but in civ 6 I haven't even tried it out because I know it would be a waste of time. Searching for strategies on YouTube or other good places like this forum could help out more than just trying to figure it out yourself because the AI will just defeat you again and again.

As for AI and tech, I heard building culture sooner will really improve science a lot more in civ 6 than it used to in civ 5. Civ 6 will get you more science with a good theater district, I heard.

 

[Alaindor]

Civ 6 will get you more science with a good theater district, I heard.

Mmmm... indirectly I might say, as neglecting your culture means you don't get access to the stronger governments and the better policy cards... However, you would not get science from Theater Squares alone (which by the way may not be the most effective way to boost your culture if you're aiming for another victory such as science).

The thing is to persevere, that is not to abandon mid-game just because you think you're lagging behind. I'm constantly behind the AI playing Deity, until I eventually catch up sometime around the Industrial Era, sometimes before, sometimes I never do but I would still win on another victory condition. The reason why we say the AI is weak is because it appears to be incapable of winning on the long run. Maybe it's the settings I use (huge map, 12 civs, marathon) but if I survive the first rush (50 turns equivalent standard speed) then I know I will catch up, sooner or later, and make up for the huge advantage the AI gets to start with. And I'm not a very good player if I compare to some of the screenshots I see in this forum.

 

[EditorRex]

I'm confused by some of the comments on this thread and trying to follow them over so much time. Did the developers at some point acknowledge this issue as a bug and release a patch? If not, was the apparent typo in the code ever officially reported to Firaxis as a bug?
Also, am I correct in understanding that the issue does not affect King and lower level games?

 

[Linklite]

I'm assuming you're talking about the science bug (conversation digressed a bit).

1. So far as in aware, there has been no public recognition of the bug. We're not even sure it is a bug - it just seems stupid to not be.

2. No, it's still there, unless it was patches pretty recently.

3. I've reported it. I'm sure that hundreds of others have to.

4. No, it does affect lower games. I've not compared, but I'd imagine it might not be so bad on lower difficulties. The AI pursues military much less, which means gold lasts longer before running out and killing their units. However, it is very much still a problem, even on Settler.

You can see for your self. Play a game with Barbs. In the early eras, the Barbs will become stupidly advanced (since they're linked with the tech of the AIs, who are shooting ahead due to their Science focus). After a few eras, the military score will plummet down to zero as they can't afford to maintain units anymore. They don't ever seem to recover.

 

[aieeegrunt]

So how close are we to celebrating the one yeat anmiversary of a game breaking bug that could be fixed with a keystroke but isn’t?